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F Chris Kreider (2009, 19th overall, NY Rangers) II -"What's the big deal," you ask?

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Old
12-28-2012, 09:03 PM
  #126
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
No one is denying this.
Well they asked what the big deal is. That's the big deal.

He's 6'3" 215 and skates like wind. That's exciting.

Moreover, he came up here and played some damn good games in the playoffs. That's also exciting. That's all it ever was, was exciting. Some fans may have made it more than that.

Really for the most part it's just most Rangers fans excited about a great athlete we think could be a great player if the right cards are drawn. Then there's a few who think he's Dr. Bobby Gordie Gretzky Jr. and the best prospect in the league. Then there's the rest of HF mostly mad over what the few said and not what the most said.

And now we have all this.

And there's all these excuses too which i know you don't like, but you can't really blame us for trying to figure out why a gifted player is struggling. That's what people do. Maybe there is no excuse he's just having a ****** season, but it's all just speculation.

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12-28-2012, 09:03 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Beacon View Post
For the Rangers to compete, they need Kreider because they lack depth. The difference between him being a 25-25 player and not being able to contribute is probably the difference between contending for the Cup and struggling with a lack of depth. The hope is that Kreider can at least replace Anisimov's offense, while Nash should be a significant improvement on on Dubinsky. This, plus the return of Sauer before the playoffs would make the Rangers into true contenders. But they have to play Rupp-Boyle-Pyatt as their third line, the Rangers will have serious issues.
The Rangers as of right now have plenty of depth on the flanks. They contended for the Cup all season without him. They contended for the Cup with him.

Anisimov had two goals in his first 22 games. He also had an 18-game goal drought after that. He finished with 17.

i don't think Kreider will have a tough time matching Anisimov's up and down production.

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12-28-2012, 09:09 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Speak for yourself.

Just because people accept the fact that Kreider hasn't had a great 1/4 season in the AHL but are willing to overlook it because, um, it's the friggin AHL, doesnt mean that he's a bust or overrated or overhyped.
If Rangers' fans look at 18 playoff games and see an almost-superstar, why can't we look at 29 games and see a decent 3rd liner?

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12-28-2012, 09:11 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by latviantwist View Post
if rangers' fans look at 18 playoff games and see an almost-superstar, why can't we look at 29 games and see a decent 3rd liner?
nhl

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12-28-2012, 09:12 PM
  #130
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In the four seasons since being drafted, we're now at one that doesn't require a billion excuses. His first two BC seasons are blamed on Jerry York, this season is blamed on the rest of his teammates. Prospects of the calibre Kreider allegedly is, don't require so many excuses in my experience. Just don't know about the hockey sense myself. Gawk about his physical tools until the cows come home but the on ice results are underwhelming. Five NHL goals is five goals. Somewhat overrated World Junior player, was exceptional at 18, could have been better at 19, I was there live for a couple games and he certainly didn't do much.

I still think he's a solid prospect, top 20 in hockey? No.


Last edited by bruinsfan46: 12-28-2012 at 09:17 PM.
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12-28-2012, 09:13 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by bruinsfan46 View Post
In the four seasons since being drafted, we're now at one that doesn't require a billion excuses. His first two BC seasons are blamed on Jerry York, this season is blamed on the rest of his teammates. Prospects of the calibre Kreider allegedly is, don't require so many excuses in my experience. Just don't know about the hockey sense myself. Gawk about his physical tools until the cows come home but the on ice results are underwhelming.
Aside from the first 29 games of his AHL career, how so?

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12-28-2012, 09:16 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
And for all the knocks about "he has the tools but no toolbox" I've heard the same thing about guys like Evander Kane, Dustin Byfuglien, and Max Paccioretty. These are all guys who possess the similar attribute of having speed and skills disproportionate to their size. They've parlayed that into NHL stardom.

Of course the potential is also there to be another Eric Tangradi or Hugh Jessiman, but doesn't any prospect have the potential to fail? That's why it's potential.
Evander Kane is 1 year younger than Kreider. While he has a strong power game he isn't huge by any stretch. We know the results so far as well.

I saw him quite a bit with the Giants in his draft year and before and there were not any questions about his "toolbox".

Buff was an over weight project and was never a hype machine.

Paccioretty has outperformed Kreider by quite a bit at every comparable stage so far in their respective careers.

At this stage he is closer to the last 2 guys that you mentioned than the 2 above but there is time.

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12-28-2012, 09:18 PM
  #133
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Aside from the first 29 games of his AHL career, how so?
He produced well enough in college, but hardly anything out of the ordinary for any half-decent prospect.

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12-28-2012, 09:22 PM
  #134
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Kreider is an absolute freak athletically. He has the physical tools of ****in Superman.
I wonder if that might have something to do with his current lack of production. Perhaps at lower levels he was always able to get by just on his athleticism, speed, size, etc. As he has moved up to a higher level of competition he can no longer get by on just those attributes alone and will need to adjust.

I also think that 'freak' athleticism, relative to a sport like say (American) football, isn't all that important in hockey, or at the very least will only get you so far. The most athletic guy in the world is probably going to top out as a third liner (perhaps the greatest third liner ever) if he is average at best at the more harder to measure things (technical skills, "hockeysense") that goes into being an elite hockey player.

Anyway... This thread has reverse jinx written all over it and Kreider will probably score 15+ points in his next dozen or so games.

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12-28-2012, 09:23 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Aside from the first 29 games of his AHL career, how so?
Well he was a bit underwhelming in his rookie college year and while he got better in 12 it's hard to separate the impact of John Gaudreau on his stats.

He had a great WJC in 10 but regressed in 11, we saw the same in Jordan Schroeder.

No one is saying that he is a bust but his production sure is disappointing for a guy hyped as a top 10 prospect by many before the start of the season doesn't it?

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12-28-2012, 09:26 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
Well they asked what the big deal is. That's the big deal.

He's 6'3" 215 and skates like wind. That's exciting.

Moreover, he came up here and played some damn good games in the playoffs. That's also exciting. That's all it ever was, was exciting. Some fans may have made it more than that.

Really for the most part it's just most Rangers fans excited about a great athlete we think could be a great player if the right cards are drawn. Then there's a few who think he's Dr. Bobby Gordie Gretzky Jr. and the best prospect in the league. Then there's the rest of HF mostly mad over what the few said and not what the most said.

And now we have all this.

And there's all these excuses too which i know you don't like, but you can't really blame us for trying to figure out why a gifted player is struggling. That's what people do. Maybe there is no excuse he's just having a ****** season, but it's all just speculation.
A player who is big and blinding fast is exciting. You understand it, and some Rangers fans do, that it isn't a guarantee of anything special.

I would stake my life on the idea that Chris Kreider will be a top-9 NHL player. He will. He has the physical tools and a decent defensive game and a decent offensive game.

Again, the only thing that's being argued in this thread is upside. Anyone who thinks Kreider is going to be a bust is out to lunch and has no clue.

I totally understand wanting to find an explanation for his crappy AHL play. But here's a distinction. You can easily explain away his crappy production as a result of a bad team, ill-fitting linemates, bad luck, etc. But you can't explain away his poor play with any of the excuses I've seen in this thread. Meybe he thinks himself above the AHL, maybe there's an attitude issue, maybe he's recovering from an injury, who knows.

I just wish that the people trying to figure out why he's struggling were also the people regularly watching him, instead of throwing around conjectures that fit their biased agendas.

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12-28-2012, 09:26 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by CoolForumNamePending View Post
I wonder if that might have something to do with his current lack of production. Perhaps at lower levels he was always able to get by just on his athleticism, speed, size, etc. As he has moved up to a higher level of competition he can no longer get by on just those attributes alone and will need to adjust.
This is the legitimate question that comes with his attributes and the lack of production this year.

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12-28-2012, 09:26 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by CoolForumNamePending View Post
I wonder if that might have something to do with his current lack of production. Perhaps at lower levels he was always able to get by just on his athleticism, speed, size, etc. As he has moved up to a higher level of competition he can no longer get by on just those attributes alone and will need to adjust.

I also think that 'freak' athleticism, relative to a sport like say (American) football, isn't all that important in hockey, or at the very least will only get you so far. The most athletic guy in the world is probably going to top out as a third liner (perhaps the greatest third liner ever) if he is average at best at the more harder to measure things (technical skills, "hockeysense") that goes into being an elite hockey player.

Anyway... This thread has reverse jinx written all over it and Kreider will probably score 15+ points in his next dozen or so games.
You might be on to something here. Perhaps he's having a hard time just getting by on being a skating rhinoceros.

But maybe he just needs to adjust. He has to have some hockey skill. Nobody even gets as far as he has already on athleticism alone. It's all a learning process and maybe stinking up the AHL will be good for him. He'll learn new skills as he adjusts to improve poor stats. Hockey sense is largely natural but a more cerebral game can be taught to an extent.

I'd love for him to be working with Torts right now cause Torts loves that ****, but they locked Torts out

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12-28-2012, 09:30 PM
  #139
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Aside from the first 29 games of his AHL career, how so?
His career 0.81 PPG at BC is quite low for a true blue chip prospect. Not saying he can't become a good scorer in the NHL but most NHL scorers who played college scored at Kreider's rate as a junior as freshman and sophomores. He gets regarded very, very highly by some, top 10-20 prospect in hockey so he must be held to a very high standard. And stats aren't the whole story but Kreider's size and speed alone give him a tremendous advantage over college competition, that advantage shrinks in the pros.

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12-28-2012, 09:39 PM
  #140
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Never got the hype either. I'd consider him a really good prospect, but not elite prospect.

Both the playoffs and the AHL season are too small of a sample size to take into serious consideration.

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12-28-2012, 11:03 PM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
He produced well enough in college, but hardly anything out of the ordinary for any half-decent prospect.
Kreider wasn't a cant-miss draft pick. He was a gamble. He was taken high at 19. In fact, THN had him 24th overall, while Kimelman and Roark (NHL.com) had him at 25 to the Bruins in their Mocks. Holland (NHL.com didnt even have him going in the 1st round).

Just because he was a top prospect for the Rangers in 2010, he was never considered a top overall prospect until after his 2010 WJC (deservedly so). He followed that up with another impressive WJC and lead all BC sophomores in Goals and points per game.

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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Well he was a bit underwhelming in his rookie college year and while he got better in 12 it's hard to separate the impact of John Gaudreau on his stats.

He had a great WJC in 10 but regressed in 11, we saw the same in Jordan Schroeder.

No one is saying that he is a bust but his production sure is disappointing for a guy hyped as a top 10 prospect by many before the start of the season doesn't it?
Underwhelming? On what planet? He was top-5 in the entire NCAA in goals for a freshman (even though missing four games from the WJC) and was a Hockey Easy all-rookie pick.

Nonsense. Pure shenanigans. I'd like to know on what planet Gaudreau "impacted" Kreider's best season as a collegian when Gaudreau racked up most of his points playing on a line with Pat Mullane and paul Carey, while Kreider played mostly with hayes.

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Originally Posted by bruinsfan46 View Post
His career 0.81 PPG at BC is quite low for a true blue chip prospect. Not saying he can't become a good scorer in the NHL but most NHL scorers who played college scored at Kreider's rate as a junior as freshman and sophomores. He gets regarded very, very highly by some, top 10-20 prospect in hockey so he must be held to a very high standard. And stats aren't the whole story but Kreider's size and speed alone give him a tremendous advantage over college competition, that advantage shrinks in the pros.
Kreider is a goal scorer. He's a shoot-first guy. It's one of the reasons why the rangers drafted him.

NHL 1st rounders who Kreider scored more goals (15) than their respective freshman year in college:

Ryan Kesler (11)
Drew Stafford (11)
Blake Wheeler (9)
Kyle Turris (11)
JVR (11)
Colin Wilson (12)
Nick Bjugstad (8)

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12-28-2012, 11:10 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post

NHL 1st rounders who Kreider scored more goals (15) than their respective freshman year in college:

Ryan Kesler (11)
Drew Stafford (11)
Blake Wheeler (9)
Kyle Turris (11)
JVR (11)
Colin Wilson (12)
Nick Bjugstad (8)
There's some decent to good names on this list, and one really sticks out, that being the former 40 goal scorer who is widely considered a bonafide all-star caliber player when healthy. Not bad company at all.

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12-28-2012, 11:17 PM
  #143
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Chris Kreider just has absolutely nothing that sticks out about him other than speed IMO. No playmaking ability and not too smart out there.

I could see him being a Viktor Stalberg lite in his prime, but I truly think he hit his peak in prep school and has been on the decline ever since. I mean he hasn't replicated his prep school stats in college or the AHL.


Last edited by caps4cup: 12-28-2012 at 11:27 PM.
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12-28-2012, 11:19 PM
  #144
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Chris Kreider just has absolutely nothing that sticks out about him. Ok speed, but nothing else. No playmaking ability and dumb as a stick out there.

I could see him being a Viktor Stalberg lite in his prime, but I truly think he hit his peak in prep school and has been on the decline ever since. I mean he hasn't replicated his prep school stats in college or the AHL.

Also, playing in that horrid system the Rangers play in where they rely solely on Lundqvist leaves little room for Kreider to develop (as shown by his awful showing in the AHL this year). I hope Lundqvist doesn't get hurt or that team will drop like a fly in the standings...

Kinda like Ovechkin nowadays.

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12-28-2012, 11:19 PM
  #145
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Kreider wasn't a cant-miss draft pick. He was a gamble. He was taken high at 19. In fact, THN had him 24th overall, while Kimelman and Roark (NHL.com) had him at 25 to the Bruins in their Mocks. Holland (NHL.com didnt even have him going in the 1st round).
I didn't say Kreider was a can't miss pick, or anything about his draft position for that matter.

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Just because he was a top prospect for the Rangers in 2010, he was never considered a top overall prospect until after his 2010 WJC (deservedly so).
Again, I never said otherwise. Why are you arguing against statements I never made?

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He followed that up with another impressive WJC and lead all BC sophomores in Goals and points per game.
Is that supposed to be impressive? He's made out to be a blue-chip forward prospect. Leading his college team in offensive categories is nothing special. It's expected.

His PPG in college was pedestrian by blue-chip standards. That is what's being discussed.

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12-28-2012, 11:21 PM
  #146
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Kinda like Ovechkin nowadays.
Makes sense... Had 53 assists 2 years ago and is now a top 5 scorer in the KHL ahead of guys like Kovalchuk and Datsyuk...

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12-28-2012, 11:24 PM
  #147
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NHL 1st rounders who Kreider scored more goals (15) than their respective freshman year in college:

Ryan Kesler (11)
Drew Stafford (11)
Blake Wheeler (9)
Kyle Turris (11)
JVR (11)
Colin Wilson (12)
Nick Bjugstad (8)
So did Ben Hanowski. Are we supposed to infer something about Hanowski's future from this list too?

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12-28-2012, 11:29 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
I didn't say Kreider was a can't miss pick, or anything about his draft position for that matter.



Again, I never said otherwise. Why are you arguing against statements I never made?



Is that supposed to be impressive? He's made out to be a blue-chip forward prospect. Leading his college team in offensive categories is nothing special. It's expected.

His PPG in college was pedestrian by blue-chip standards. That is what's being discussed.
He was made out to be a blue chip prospect because of what he did at the WJC's -- 10 goals in 13 games. That's when his stock rose. It was his first time on an international stage.

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12-28-2012, 11:32 PM
  #149
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Makes sense... Had 53 assists 2 years ago and is now a top 5 scorer in the KHL ahead of guys like Kovalchuk and Datsyuk...
Oh, you mean the guy who was 37th in the NHL in scoring last season?

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12-28-2012, 11:34 PM
  #150
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You know, if Kreider was ever 37th in scoring I would take it. Just syaing

Man that's at least like 64, 65 points.

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