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Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

F Chris Kreider (2009, 19th overall, NY Rangers) II -"What's the big deal," you ask?

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Old
12-29-2012, 12:35 AM
  #151
GWOW
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
So did Ben Hanowski. Are we supposed to infer something about Hanowski's future from this list too?
Hanowski needs a miracle to sniff the NHL. Kreider and the aforementioned didnt

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12-29-2012, 12:36 AM
  #152
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
He was made out to be a blue chip prospect because of what he did at the WJC's -- 10 goals in 13 games. That's when his stock rose. It was his first time on an international stage.
None of this is news. In response to this post:

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Originally Posted by bruinsfan46 View Post
Gawk about his physical tools until the cows come home but the on ice results are underwhelming.
You asked:

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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Aside from the first 29 games of his AHL career, how so?
The answer is his college production, which constitutes the overwhelming majority of his career. The progression and resolution of this discussion seems pretty black and white to me.

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12-29-2012, 12:51 AM
  #153
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
None of this is news. In response to this post:



You asked:



The answer is his college production, which constitutes the overwhelming majority of his career. The progression and resolution of this discussion seems pretty black and white to me.
Please stop. He was the leading scorer and goal scorer on an NCAA-title winning team. Underwhelming my ass. Sorry he didnt score 46 goals like Cal Ingraham or 120 points like Tony Hrkac.

Again, what was expected out of kid who was a reach at 19th overall? He wasnt expected to set the NCAA on fire.

Anybody who has followed Kreider's career knows he plays his best during big moments -- Beanpots, WJC's, NCAA's, Conference playoffs, NHL playoffs.

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12-29-2012, 12:58 AM
  #154
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Please stop. He was the leading scorer and goal scorer on an NCAA-title winning team. Underwhelming my ass. Sorry he didnt score 46 goals like Cal Ingraham or 120 points like Tony Hrkac.

Again, what was expected out of kid who was a reach at 19th overall? He wasnt expected to set the NCAA on fire.

Anybody who has followed Kreider's career knows he plays his best during big moments -- Beanpots, WJC's, NCAA's, Conference playoffs, NHL playoffs.
Listen - this isn't about his draft position. It's about the fact that he's considered by many to be a top 20 prospect (sometimes flirting with the top 10).

The hype is based primarily on his tools, which haven't consistently yielded very impressive tangible results. It's not all about stats, obviously, but at some point you need to translate the raw potential into production if you want to be considered a top tier scoring forward prospect.

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12-29-2012, 01:04 AM
  #155
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My view is that Krieder is a great prospect who has 1st line potential with the right linemates. The better his linemates, the more he'll produce, simple as that.

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12-29-2012, 03:11 AM
  #156
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12-29-2012, 08:10 AM
  #157
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My view is that Krieder is a great prospect who has 1st line potential with the right linemates. The better his linemates, the more he'll produce, simple as that.
agreed. Put Kreider on some line combination with players such as Richards, Nash and/or Gaborik and Kreider will be in serious contention for the Calder.

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12-29-2012, 11:41 AM
  #158
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Listen - this isn't about his draft position. It's about the fact that he's considered by many to be a top 20 prospect (sometimes flirting with the top 10).

The hype is based primarily on his tools, which haven't consistently yielded very impressive tangible results. It's not all about stats, obviously, but at some point you need to translate the raw potential into production if you want to be considered a top tier scoring forward prospect.
He hasn't been consistently impressive. This isnt news.

Yet he's delivered in so many big spots throughout his career, so the "hype" is most certainly deserved.

Ask anybody who has covered Hockey East outside of Chestnut Hill, and they will tell you Kreider is as close to they come as a big game, money player as they come.

Screw the AHL and his current poor season. The kid came right out of college into a pressure-packed NHL postseason and had one of the better playoffs for rookies. He did the same thing in the NCAAs and in the WJC.

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12-29-2012, 12:50 PM
  #159
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Good prospect, but nowhere near an elite one.

solid third line potential with some second line upside.

Size and speed always tends to get a prospect overrated, but this was a pretty extreme case regardless....kreder is definitely not a top 20 prospect, and might have trouble cracking some top 50 lists.

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12-29-2012, 12:52 PM
  #160
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I mean he hasn't replicated his prep school stats in college or the AHL.
I found the discussion to be pretty good overall until this. For every Ranger fan making silly arguments (he's just taking it easy!) you have someone else making a "durrr statz!" argument.

wow.

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12-29-2012, 01:27 PM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW;56894235[B
]Screw the AHL and his current poor season.[/B] The kid came right out of college into a pressure-packed NHL postseason and had one of the better playoffs for rookies. He did the same thing in the NCAAs and in the WJC.
Of course you would say that, it doesnt fit your agenda. I just love how you prop up 18 ok games in the NHL playoffs(where he shot a likely unsustainable 17% and had 70% offensive zone starts), but throw out his two mediocre years in college(even his 3rd wasnt even that great), and his Scott Glennie-esque production so far in the AHL.

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12-29-2012, 01:33 PM
  #162
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Kreider's amazing nhl playoffs performance saw him produce at a 31pt pace, btw.

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12-29-2012, 01:39 PM
  #163
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Originally Posted by zeke View Post
Kreider's amazing nhl playoffs performance saw him produce at a 31pt pace, btw.
That's roughly where I would expect his early production to be in the NHL. He could push it up a bit towards the 40-50 range if he adjusts well to the NHL.

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12-29-2012, 01:56 PM
  #164
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Kreider wasn't a cant-miss draft pick. He was a gamble. He was taken high at 19. In fact, THN had him 24th overall, while Kimelman and Roark (NHL.com) had him at 25 to the Bruins in their Mocks. Holland (NHL.com didnt even have him going in the 1st round).
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Again, what was expected out of kid who was a reach at 19th overall? He wasnt expected to set the NCAA on fire.
That is absolutely absurd. There is no planet on which taking a kid 19th who was projected at 24th or 25th could be considered a "reach". Just like there is no planet on which a kid projected 19th being taken 24th or 25th would be considered "falling".

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12-29-2012, 02:50 PM
  #165
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Kreider's amazing nhl playoffs performance saw him produce at a 31pt pace, btw.
Nobody said he was amazing in the playoffs. he was just one of the better rookies in the playoffs. Also a 23-goal pace, which is what most people predicted for him in 2013 playing in New York

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Of course you would say that, it doesnt fit your agenda. I just love how you prop up 18 ok games in the NHL playoffs(where he shot a likely unsustainable 17% and had 70% offensive zone starts), but throw out his two mediocre years in college(even his 3rd wasnt even that great), and his Scott Glennie-esque production so far in the AHL.
What made him mediocre in college? Stats? Oh, I see. So his college stats are a real barometer, but his NHL playoff performance was as abberation simply because you said so? OK, I guess.

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That is absolutely absurd. There is no planet on which taking a kid 19th who was projected at 24th or 25th could be considered a "reach". Just like there is no planet on which a kid projected 19th being taken 24th or 25th would be considered "falling".
The point is that at no point during his pre-draft or immediate post-draft period was Kreider ever considered by anybody (to include rangers fans) as an "elite" or "blue chip" prospect. Kreider's status improved with his WJC performance. He was viewed by many as a bit of a gamble simply because of the circuit he was drafted out of of.

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12-29-2012, 03:02 PM
  #166
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
What made him mediocre in college? Stats? Oh, I see. So his college stats are a real barometer, but his NHL playoff performance was as abberation simply because you said so? OK, I guess.
Theres this very important thing you seem to be ignoring called sample size. His mediocre college stats were accumulated over 3 seasons and 114 games. His 32 point pace playoff performance was accumulated over a whopping 18 games. Where he shot a very likely unsustainable 17%. And was given extremely favorable zone starts.

I'll ask this question again, since you keep ignoring it. Why are you so quick to praise his 18 game playoff performance, but completely ignore his lack of production through 29 AHL games this season? Or his lack of consistent production over a 114 game college career?

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12-29-2012, 03:12 PM
  #167
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Theres this very important thing you seem to be ignoring called sample size. His mediocre college stats were accumulated over 3 seasons and 114 games. His 32 point pace playoff performance was accumulated over a whopping 18 games. Where he shot a very likely unsustainable 17%. And was given extremely favorable zone starts.

I'll ask this question again, since you keep ignoring it. Why are you so quick to praise his 18 game playoff performance, but completely ignore his lack of production through 29 AHL games this season? Or his lack of consistent production over a 114 game college career?
How many games of his in college did you watch?

And the only reason why I dont put any stock into what he's done in the AHL is because I personally saw him use his size, speed and skill at the highest level of NHL hockey. I don't care what he does in the AHL, because the knocks on him in hartford are the same knocks he's had his whole career.

Again, being a link in the chain on a dominant NHL team with star players is a lot different than being the focal point on a dick team in the AHL. Yeah, in a perfect world, he'd go down to Hartford and tear the place apart. Until i see him struggle offensively at the NHL level, then I'll be concerned.

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12-29-2012, 03:13 PM
  #168
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
How many games of his in college did you watch?
I'll ask this question again, since you keep ignoring it. Why are you so quick to praise his 18 game playoff performance, but completely ignore his lack of production through 29 AHL games this season? Or his lack of consistent production over a 114 game college career?

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12-29-2012, 03:20 PM
  #169
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How many games of his in college did you watch?

And the only reason why I dont put any stock into what he's done in the AHL is because I personally saw him use his size, speed and skill at the highest level of NHL hockey. I don't care what he does in the AHL, because the knocks on him in hartford are the same knocks he's had his whole career.

Again, being a link in the chain on a dominant NHL team with star players is a lot different than being the focal point on a dick team in the AHL. Yeah, in a perfect world, he'd go down to Hartford and tear the place apart. Until i see him struggle offensively at the NHL level, then I'll be concerned.
He's not the focal point...

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12-29-2012, 03:26 PM
  #170
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Kreider = Younger Colin Greening

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12-29-2012, 03:28 PM
  #171
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Again, being a link in the chain on a dominant NHL team with star players is a lot different than being the focal point on a dick team in the AHL. Yeah, in a perfect world, he'd go down to Hartford and tear the place apart. Until i see him struggle offensively at the NHL level, then I'll be concerned.
If he's being outperformed by other players in the AHL, why not use those ones as the links in the chain at the NHL level?

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12-29-2012, 03:31 PM
  #172
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Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
I'll ask this question again, since you keep ignoring it. Why are you so quick to praise his 18 game playoff performance, but completely ignore his lack of production through 29 AHL games this season? Or his lack of consistent production over a 114 game college career?
I already addressed it -- I dont care about the AHL. Never have. If Kreider was 40-40-80 playing for Hartford, it wouldnt change any of my expectations for his Rangers career.

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12-29-2012, 03:31 PM
  #173
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
And the only reason why I dont put any stock into what he's done in the AHL is because I personally saw him use his size, speed and skill at the highest level of NHL hockey. I don't care what he does in the AHL, because the knocks on him in hartford are the same knocks he's had his whole career.

Again, being a link in the chain on a dominant NHL team with star players is a lot different than being the focal point on a dick team in the AHL. Yeah, in a perfect world, he'd go down to Hartford and tear the place apart. Until i see him struggle offensively at the NHL level, then I'll be concerned.
But its not like he was some unstoppable force or something in the playoffs. He scored at a 32 point pace, while shooting 17% and getting extremely favorable zone starts.

It literally makes no sense how someone can hold that OK playoff performance in such high regard while completely ignoring his lack of college and AHL production

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12-29-2012, 03:31 PM
  #174
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He's not the focal point...
He's the most important player down there.

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12-29-2012, 03:33 PM
  #175
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But its not like he was some unstoppable force or something in the playoffs. He scored at a 32 point pace, while shooting 17% and getting extremely favorable zone starts.

It literally makes no sense how someone can hold that OK NHL playoff performance in such high regard while completely ignoring his lack of college and AHL production
Pretty please, with sugar on top, read the friggin bolded part and take a deep breath.

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