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F Chris Kreider (2009, 19th overall, NY Rangers) II -"What's the big deal," you ask?

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Old
12-29-2012, 02:37 PM
  #176
Hynh
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Pretty please, with sugar on top, read the friggin bolded part and take a deep breath.
18 games so what. Sam Gagner scored 21 points over an 18 game stretch last year.

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Old
12-29-2012, 02:37 PM
  #177
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Pretty please, with sugar on top, read the friggin bolded part and take a deep breath.
Please, please stop using a tiny 18 game sample size to form your entire opinion, and actually look at said players overall lack of production over a much larger sample size.

I know sometimes its really difficult to change your preconceived notions, but it is possible. History points to Kreider being extremely likely to be a 2nd/3rd line tweener type forward, rather than this 1st line scorer people seem to think that he's going to turn into.

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12-29-2012, 02:42 PM
  #178
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Players since 1980 who excelled in the playoffs as rookies:
- Brad Palmer (8 goals in 19 games)
- Pat Flatley (9 goals in 21 games)
- Bob Joyce (8 goals in 23 games)
- Tom McCarthy (5 goals in 15 games)
- Daryl Evans (5 goals in 10 games)
- Dainius Zubrus (5 goals in 19 games)
- Dan Quinn (3 goals and 8 points in 8 games)
- Steve Christoff (8 goals in 14 games)
- Mike Krushelnyski (8 goals in 17 games)

Zubrus, McCarthy, and Krushelnyski are the only ones to play more than a handful of games in the NHL that year as well.

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The point is that at no point during his pre-draft or immediate post-draft period was Kreider ever considered by anybody (to include rangers fans) as an "elite" or "blue chip" prospect. Kreider's status improved with his WJC performance. He was viewed by many as a bit of a gamble simply because of the circuit he was drafted out of of.
Want me to bring up Cam Atkinson again, who was drafted out of a Connecticut high school? Any high school player who's college-bound is automatically branded as a "project", which is why so many of them are later-round picks. Atkinson was a 6th-rounder, and I can guarantee you that if he were five inches taller he'd have gone higher (and that if Kreider were five inches shorter, he'd have been a 6th-rounder).

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12-29-2012, 02:47 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Hynh View Post
18 games so what. Sam Gagner scored 21 points over an 18 game stretch last year.
Yeah -- 20 goals, 50 points. Over 82 games thats what Gagner would probably average, and that's on a horrid pathetic team.

20 goals is what I expect Kreider to score on a stacked rangers team. At least as a rookie.

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12-29-2012, 03:02 PM
  #180
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He's got size and speed, two of the most intriguing attributes for young players. He started NHL hockey in the playoffs and put on a pretty good show considering it was his first taste of NHL hockey. The Whale is a mess so I wouldn't take his performance on that team too seriously.

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12-29-2012, 03:02 PM
  #181
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Players since 1980 who excelled in the playoffs as rookies:
- Brad Palmer (8 goals in 19 games)
- Pat Flatley (9 goals in 21 games)
- Bob Joyce (8 goals in 23 games)
- Tom McCarthy (5 goals in 15 games)
- Daryl Evans (5 goals in 10 games)
- Dainius Zubrus (5 goals in 19 games)
- Dan Quinn (3 goals and 8 points in 8 games)
- Steve Christoff (8 goals in 14 games)
- Mike Krushelnyski (8 goals in 17 games)

Zubrus, McCarthy, and Krushelnyski are the only ones to play more than a handful of games in the NHL that year as well.

Want me to bring up Cam Atkinson again, who was drafted out of a Connecticut high school? Any high school player who's college-bound is automatically branded as a "project", which is why so many of them are later-round picks. Atkinson was a 6th-rounder, and I can guarantee you that if he were five inches taller he'd have gone higher (and that if Kreider were five inches shorter, he'd have been a 6th-rounder).
Most of those guys you mentioned went to score or average at least 20+ goals as NHL'ers.

As for this love affair with the diminutive Atkinson:

Kreider played 18 NHL games -- 18-5-2-7

Over Atkinson's first 18 NHL games -- 18-2-2-4

Kreider's NHL TOI: 13:09
Atkinson's TOI: 15:23

You know when Atkinson's stats improved? When the season was lost and the jackets pretty much clinched the worst record in the league.

Atkinson had 10 points in his last six games. You know, those ever-meaningful important "We're lottery bound" games.

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12-29-2012, 03:04 PM
  #182
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Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
Please, please stop using a tiny 18 game sample size to form your entire opinion, and actually look at said players overall lack of production over a much larger sample size.

I know sometimes its really difficult to change your preconceived notions, but it is possible. History points to Kreider being extremely likely to be a 2nd/3rd line tweener type forward, rather than this 1st line scorer people seem to think that he's going to turn into.
Your rationale is a keeper:

"Stop focusing on NHL production and FOCUS on his amateur and minor league production"

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12-29-2012, 03:08 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Yeah -- 20 goals, 50 points. Over 82 games thats what Gagner would probably average, and that's on a horrid pathetic team.

20 goals is what I expect Kreider to score on a stacked rangers team. At least as a rookie.
How is what you wrote even connected to what I wrote other than the words "sam" and "gagner"? Over that 18 game stretch I mentioned, Gagner projected to be a 95 point center. Do you understand what I am saying? Or should I draw you a map?

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12-29-2012, 03:09 PM
  #184
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Your rationale is a keeper:

"Stop focusing on NHL production and FOCUS on his amateur and minor league production"
Phillipe Cornet scored .5 ppg last year. Should his 2 game sample be used as a reference point to him being a 41 point winger?

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12-29-2012, 03:15 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Hynh View Post
How is what you wrote even connected to what I wrote other than the words "sam" and "gagner"? Over that 18 game stretch I mentioned, Gagner projected to be a 95 point center. Do you understand what I am saying? Or should I draw you a map?
Yes, please draw me a map.

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Phillipe Cornet scored .5 ppg last year. Should his 2 game sample be used as a reference point to him being a 41 point winger?
Cornet must be better than Kreider.

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12-29-2012, 03:18 PM
  #186
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Yes, please draw me a map.



Cornet must be better than Kreider.
Ok, here goes.


The point




Your head

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12-29-2012, 03:18 PM
  #187
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Your rationale is a keeper:

"Stop focusing on NHL production and FOCUS on his amateur and minor league production"
Your rationale is comical:

"Focus on an 18 game sample size, and completely ignore the 114 game sample size that came before it"

Again, you talk about NHL production. It was 7 points in 18 games. A 32 point pace. You know, 3rd line caliber production. Where he shot 17% and started in the offensive zone 70% of the time.

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12-29-2012, 03:23 PM
  #188
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Over the last few pagers, fans from the following teams have provided critical analysis of Chris Kreider:

Columbus Blue Jackets
Toronto Maple Leafs
Dallas Stars
Edmonton Oilers


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm

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12-29-2012, 03:24 PM
  #189
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Originally Posted by Chaos View Post
Your rationale is comical:

"Focus on an 18 game sample size, and completely ignore the 114 game sample size that came before it"

Again, you talk about NHL production. It was 7 points in 18 games. A 32 point pace. You know, 3rd line caliber production. Where he shot 17% and started in the offensive zone 70% of the time.
23 goals.

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12-29-2012, 03:25 PM
  #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Over the last few pagers, fans from the following teams have provided critical analysis of Chris Kreider:

Columbus Blue Jackets
Toronto Maple Leafs
Dallas Stars
Edmonton Oilers


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Oiler fans might know a thing or two about good forward prospects. Just a thought.

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12-29-2012, 03:27 PM
  #191
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Oiler fans might know a thing or two about good forward prospects. Just a thought.
The Rangers are better than the Oilers at player development. Sorry.

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12-29-2012, 03:27 PM
  #192
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23 goals.
On 17% shooting. More like 15-16 on normal shooting.

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12-29-2012, 03:29 PM
  #193
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The Rangers are better than the Oilers at player development. Sorry.
Evidence? I see a homer pumping his own team. Hardly the most objective of analyses.

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12-29-2012, 03:30 PM
  #194
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23 goals.
Not to shabby...

Last year Akim Aliu scored at 82 goal and 123 point clip in the NHL. I am going to ignore the fact that in the previous 5 or 6 years leading up to his NHL debut last season, and so far this season, he has done nothing that would hint at being an extremely productive player in the NHL. I mean why bother factoring in production from lower levels of hockey when he has already proven he can get things done at the NHL level?

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12-29-2012, 03:32 PM
  #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
23 goals.
Thats nice, but hardly anything special from a supposed 1st line caliber scorer. And of course that completely ignores his lack of production the previous two years in college. Which you continue to do.

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12-29-2012, 03:34 PM
  #196
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GWOW View Post
Over the last few pagers, fans from the following teams have provided critical analysis of Chris Kreider:

Columbus Blue Jackets
Toronto Maple Leafs
Dallas Stars
Edmonton Oilers


Hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
What fan I'm a team of doesnt change the fact that I can look at the numbers and history and see what they mean

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Old
12-29-2012, 03:34 PM
  #197
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
On 17% shooting. More like 15-16 on normal shooting.
Well, playoff competition is stiffer. He's not going to play all 82 games against playoff-caliber opponents.

Besides, 15-16 goals as a rookie puts him in the top- 7-10 for rookie goal scorers, at least the last few years. Really cant be disappointed with that kind of production on a stacked team with depth on the flanks.

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12-29-2012, 03:36 PM
  #198
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Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
Evidence? I see a homer pumping his own team. Hardly the most objective of analyses.

http://espn.go.com/nhl/standings/_/y...2/seasontype/2

http://espn.go.com/nhl/standings/_/y...1/seasontype/2

http://espn.go.com/nhl/standings/_/y...0/seasontype/2

http://espn.go.com/nhl/standings/_/y...9/seasontype/2

etc etc etc

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12-29-2012, 03:37 PM
  #199
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What fan I'm a team of doesnt change the fact that I can look at the numbers and history and see what they mean
Except of course, NHL numbers.

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12-29-2012, 03:40 PM
  #200
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Thats nice, but hardly anything special from a supposed 1st line caliber scorer. And of course that completely ignores his lack of production the previous two years in college. Which you continue to do.
Brilliant stuff. Because all 1st-line NHL players scored more than 23 goals as rookies.

And please tell me how leading a team in scoring as a Junior translates to "lack of production"

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