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LeBrun: NHL made new offer to NHLPA on Thursday (12/27)

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Old
12-29-2012, 02:34 PM
  #276
Pepper
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
2. See you at the antitrust hearing
Oh boy, I'm pretty certain that NHLPA doesn't want NHL to call out that one.

NHL has already filed a pre-emptive strike in a employer-friendly court, NHLPA has extremely hard time convincing the judge that their DOI is not a negotiating tactic.

If NHLPA really wanted to put pressure on NHL, they would call a vote allowing Fehr & executive committee to proceed with full decertification. But everyone knows they won't do that, they go DOI route only because it's faster.

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Old
12-29-2012, 02:54 PM
  #277
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
"A recent “negotiating” session provides a perfect example of how Fehr operates. The league and the NHLPA negotiators agree to meet at 10 a.m. one day. Everyone shows up at the appointed hour, with the exception of Donald Fehr, who finally walks into the room at 11:15 and apologizes for being late. At exactly 12 noon, he announces he has a lunch meeting with someone in uptown Manhattan and leaves the room."

Gold, Jerry. Gold.
Oh man i'm on the PA's side but if that's true, that's just ludicrous.

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12-29-2012, 03:14 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
"A recent “negotiating” session provides a perfect example of how Fehr operates. The league and the NHLPA negotiators agree to meet at 10 a.m. one day. Everyone shows up at the appointed hour, with the exception of Donald Fehr, who finally walks into the room at 11:15 and apologizes for being late. At exactly 12 noon, he announces he has a lunch meeting with someone in uptown Manhattan and leaves the room."

Gold, Jerry. Gold.
Yes, it truly is an art, one would almost call it ......stalling

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12-29-2012, 03:18 PM
  #279
DuklaNation
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Originally Posted by Del Z baby View Post
The only thing pathetic is the hypocrisy displayed by the owners and Bettman. Signing players to 13 year contracts full well knowing that the league would be pushing to cap term limits at 5 years. Absolutely disgusting.


"We can't help ourselves from making moronic contract offers! Please Gary cap the contracts at 5 years!"





LOL
All it takes is the extreme minority to offer such deals which can influence the marketplace. The majority dont offer these deals. That is why they want these rules in place. Otherwise, it would be collusion. How many times does it take to explain this?

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Old
12-29-2012, 03:31 PM
  #280
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Originally Posted by JAX View Post
Yes, it truly is an art, one would almost call it ......stalling
I call it "Douchebaggery"

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Old
12-29-2012, 03:32 PM
  #281
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Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
How many times does it take to explain this?
How long is a piece of string?

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Old
12-29-2012, 03:45 PM
  #282
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It seems quite a stretch to characterize the PA as winning when they have made huge concessions again. Perhaps relative to what the vast majority of fans thought the players could get given the owners overwhelming leverage. Perhaps when constrasted with all the tough talk from fans that owners should lay down the law. Perhaps compared to what Paul Kelly might have conceded to?

The stupid uneducated Canadian athletes got a better deal than all their college educated counterparts in the other sports i guess because they are too dumb to realize they should have surrendered early?

That was a pretty funny example from Fehr showing up late though, passive aggressive brilliance he called it, heh. Of course juxtaposed with Bettmans condescending arrogance, dismissing PA counter offers before possibly reading and discussing them and then presenting new typed up offers several minutes after that, calling them take it or leave final offers that will only get worse, over and over, i'd think there is only one way to counter that style of Bettmans.

But most dangerous of all, why is everyone thinking Fehr won at all, in that the lockout is now over. Its far from over. That 60 mil cap at the same time as compliance buy-outs are coming out of it is going to be a disaster to teams, payrolls, salaries, and fairness. And for no good reason other than they are too cheap to pay for transition out oftheir own pockets as any normal business would. That $60 mil cap has to be a hill the PA dies on to prevent - its ridiculous.

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Old
12-29-2012, 03:47 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
All it takes is the extreme minority to offer such deals which can influence the marketplace. The majority dont offer these deals.
List of teams that have offered 10+ year contracts since the last lockout:

- Islanders
- Minnesota
- Philadelphia
- NJD
- Washington
- Detroit
- Chicago
- Vancouver
- Tampa Bay
- Nashville
- Buffalo
- Los Angeles

This is well beyond an "extreme minority" - this is a big chunk of the league. Drop the criteria to 8+ years (which is already a stoopid-long contract) and the majority of the league is guilty as charged.

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12-29-2012, 04:01 PM
  #284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Z baby View Post
The only thing pathetic is the hypocrisy displayed by the owners and Bettman. Signing players to 13 year contracts full well knowing that the league would be pushing to cap term limits at 5 years. Absolutely disgusting.


"We can't help ourselves from making moronic contract offers! Please Gary cap the contracts at 5 years!"





LOL
Actually I'd think the teams that signed those ludicrous contracts would just **** themselves if the league said only the first 5 or 6 years are kept. The players would make out like bandits since the biggest amounts counting signing bonuses are paidout early in the deal. The players would be UFA's again in 5 or 6 years.

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Old
12-29-2012, 04:23 PM
  #285
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Del Z baby View Post
The only thing pathetic is the hypocrisy displayed by the owners and Bettman. Signing players to 13 year contracts full well knowing that the league would be pushing to cap term limits at 5 years. Absolutely disgusting.


"We can't help ourselves from making moronic contract offers! Please Gary cap the contracts at 5 years!"





LOL
Would it have been any less pathetic if they'd signed them to 8 year deals, then rolled them back? Or how about 7? Or how about they collude and say "we're not going to sign anyone until the new CBA is written." Oh wait...can't do THAT. And besides...is Minnesota Suter and Parise's top choice if they can only sign a max 5 year contract? Yeah. Not likely.

Does Suter sign Philly's offer sheet if it's for 5 years? No...not likely.

The owners have to remain competitive in order to be profitable. Junk teams don't fill the seats unless you're one of the many amazing people from Toronto that take out 2nd mortgages to watch mediocre teams. The rest of the league can't get by like that. A lot of these teams lose enough money already. Failing to pony up for top end talent, whatever it costs, can essentially cost you more is lost revenue than what the player's salary is whacking you for.

With 5 year contract limits, I think you'll find players will be more likely to lock up with teams they feel will be most competitive than they are to simply chase $'s.

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Old
12-29-2012, 04:32 PM
  #286
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The "season" is so tainted now it means nothing if it starts in January. Who really cares at this point? Just start legitimately in October.

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12-29-2012, 04:36 PM
  #287
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bert Marshall days View Post
The "season" is so tainted now it means nothing if it starts in January. Who really cares at this point? Just start legitimately in October.
I actually agree with this. If they play a shortened season, every single game I watch is going to remind me of all this nonsense. When the season ends and they play nearly as many games in the playoffs as they do in the season...it's going to remind me of all this nonsense. When someone wins the Rocket Richard trophy with 24 goals...it's going to want to make me forget this season.

I'm going to be MAD pissed off that there's no Winter Classic on Tuesday.

This league has nothing to offer me right now. Just have another one of those exciting lottery style drafts where everyone has a crack at any pick...televise it...and see you again in October.

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Old
12-29-2012, 04:44 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
List of teams that have offered 10+ year contracts since the last lockout:

- Islanders
- Minnesota
- Philadelphia
- NJD
- Washington
- Detroit
- Chicago
- Vancouver
- Tampa Bay
- Nashville
- Buffalo
- Los Angeles

This is well beyond an "extreme minority" - this is a big chunk of the league. Drop the criteria to 8+ years (which is already a stoopid-long contract) and the majority of the league is guilty as charged.
MOD. For example, if 2 teams offer it, so will others. Your example is irrelavant as it is after the fact. MOD


Last edited by Fugu: 12-29-2012 at 11:57 PM. Reason: not needed
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Old
12-29-2012, 04:53 PM
  #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
List of teams that have offered 10+ year contracts since the last lockout:

- Islanders
- Minnesota
- Philadelphia
- NJD
- Washington
- Detroit
- Chicago
- Vancouver
- Tampa Bay
- Nashville
- Buffalo
- Los Angeles

This is well beyond an "extreme minority" - this is a big chunk of the league. Drop the criteria to 8+ years (which is already a stoopid-long contract) and the majority of the league is guilty as charged.
You know if Jeremy Jacobs is really as powerful in all of this as people say he is it’s interesting to look at the deals the Bruins gave out right before the lockout compared to some other teams. Seguin got the most years at 6 which coincidentally fall right in line with the owner’s proposal for 5 year max contracts with an option for up to 7 if you resign with your team. Even if you go back to the Chara and Savard deals which were 6 and 7 years you can see a pattern. Maybe it’s nothing and maybe Jacobs told Chiarelli nothing more than 7 years. Either way it’s interesting and seems a little too neat and in line with the owners proposal to be a coincidence. And if this is true can you imagine the look on Jacob’s face as he watched those huge contracts get inked right before the lockout? It must have made for some uncomfortable meeting between the owners when the lockout started.

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:05 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
MOD For example, if 2 teams offer it, so will others. Your example is irrelavant as it is after the fact. MOD


MOD... you would not use the term "extreme minority" to refer to a group of 14/30 (47%) of teams that have contracts on their books that were 9 years or more in term. I think you are the prime example of a person who is persistent in their opinion despite an overwhelming amount of facts that negate everything you say.

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:14 PM
  #291
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Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
For example, if 2 teams offer it, so will others. Your example is irrelavant as it is after the fact.
Except that it was the Islanders who got the ball rolling with the DiPietro contract.

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Old
12-29-2012, 05:27 PM
  #292
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Conference calls ongoing, hopefully thy meet tomorrow to negotiate final details AND GET THIS DONE!!!

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl-l...s_for_new_cba/

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Old
12-29-2012, 06:13 PM
  #293
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If this deal gets signed you can start counting the days until the next lockout. Short of DOI I have no interest in this year's partial season or any season in the future.

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Old
12-29-2012, 06:25 PM
  #294
DuklaNation
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Except that it was the Islanders who got the ball rolling with the DiPietro contract.
That was an exception and certainly wasnt backloaded. Do you really question the mechanics of the marketplace? Really? Your comment doesnt even answer mine anyways. Once it starts, the price has been determined.

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Old
12-29-2012, 08:07 PM
  #295
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dado View Post
List of teams that have offered 10+ year contracts since the last lockout:

- Islanders
- Minnesota
- Philadelphia
- NJD
- Washington
- Detroit
- Chicago
- Vancouver
- Tampa Bay
- Nashville
- Buffalo
- Los Angeles

This is well beyond an "extreme minority" - this is a big chunk of the league. Drop the criteria to 8+ years (which is already a stoopid-long contract) and the majority of the league is guilty as charged.
Probably half of them offered it because their in competition and because the player's agent said... it's been done there, you can do it here...

Rich teams doing what they can easily do, a CBA that allowed it, player agents that push it, the competition factor that pushes it, and colusion laws which make it hard to justify not doing it.
/\ /\
Those are the factors that explain it.

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Old
12-29-2012, 08:12 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
For example, if 2 teams offer it, so will others. Your example is irrelavant as it is after the fact.
Sorry, that makes no sense whatsoever.

Plain fact is more than half the league was jumping all over the so-called loopholes to lock players up for an eternity.

Ain't no getting around that fact.

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12-29-2012, 08:28 PM
  #297
Killion
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Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
For example, if 2 teams offer it, so will others.
Very true, and to what extent (beyond the GM & owner) are the Agents responsible, culpable, and why the blankets of silence emanating from their camps do you suppose DN? They have there own "Association", and really, should be given a seat at the table IMO. Adopted, co-opted.

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Old
12-29-2012, 08:47 PM
  #298
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Originally Posted by MoreOrr View Post
Probably half of them offered it because their in competition and because the player's agent said... it's been done there, you can do it here...

Rich teams doing what they can easily do, a CBA that allowed it, player agents that push it, the competition factor that pushes it, and colusion laws which make it hard to justify not doing it.
/\ /\
Those are the factors that explain it.
I couldn't agree more with this. Been saying it forever; "it takes 2 to tango". Owners/GM's do not simply offer these deals on their own, without the player/agent pushing for it. Both sides are to blame for these long-term/back-diving deals.

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Old
12-29-2012, 09:49 PM
  #299
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I'm skeptical that a season will be had. I'm sure this is another one of Bettman's negotiating tricks. All along he intends to cancel the season. All that a player has to do is casually mention his, Bettman's height and beukeboom! the whole deal will collapse. There's no hockey this season!

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12-29-2012, 09:58 PM
  #300
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I'm skeptical that a season will be had. I'm sure this is another one of Bettman's negotiating tricks. All along he intends to cancel the season. All that a player has to do is casually mention his, Bettman's height and beukeboom! the whole deal will collapse. There's no hockey this season!
What's Bettman's (and the owners') objective in cancelling the Season even if they see positive conditions in the negotiation process in order not to cancel?

I'm more skeptical that Fehr won't come up with yet another counter offer to keep biting back for more from the owners, and that he won't be able to convince the players to continue the hold out.

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