HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The Business of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
The Business of Hockey Discuss the financial and business aspects of the NHL. Topics may include the CBA, work stoppages, broadcast contracts, franchise sales, and NHL revenues.

LeBrun: NHL made new offer to NHLPA on Thursday (12/27)

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-01-2013, 01:32 PM
  #526
DuklaNation
Registered User
 
DuklaNation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,827
vCash: 500
When the players are prepared to pay for all arena costs, then maybe some of these 'proposals' will have merit. Until then, these ideas really are just cash grabs.

DuklaNation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 01:59 PM
  #527
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuklaNation View Post
When the players are prepared to pay for all arena costs, then maybe some of these 'proposals' will have merit. Until then, these ideas really are just cash grabs.
Seriously. Name all the other industries where employees pay the costs of the facilities.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:00 PM
  #528
RedWingsNow*
SaskatoonDeathSquad
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Ann Arbor
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,356
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by ichabod13 View Post
that would be about as illegal as possible, and they would get their socks sued off of them if they tried. section 7.1 (B) clearly states
(b) Neither the League nor any Club shall engage in a lockout during the term
of this Agreement.

so if the old CBA was extended for this season, there could be no lock out until setember 15 2013.
I'm not talking about "extending the CBA until a certain date."

I'm talk about extending the the CBA indefinitely. There's no law that says if you extend a CBA it has to be for an entire year.

RedWingsNow* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:02 PM
  #529
Pepper
Registered User
 
Pepper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Seriously. Name all the other industries where employees pay the costs of the facilities.
Name all the other industries where employees get a guaranteed share of revenue.

Pepper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:03 PM
  #530
BLONG7
Registered User
 
BLONG7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 12,394
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Seriously. Name all the other industries where employees pay the costs of the facilities.
There are none, but that's the types of businesses that the employees make 5 to 10% of the revenues...I think the previous poster may be referring to someone else talking about a " partnership" ?

BLONG7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:04 PM
  #531
Pepper
Registered User
 
Pepper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
I'm not talking about "extending the CBA until a certain date."

I'm talk about extending the the CBA indefinitely. There's no law that says if you extend a CBA it has to be for an entire year.
NHLPA is happy with the current deal, owners are not. Thus extending the last CBA indefinetly is a no-go because PA has zero interest to compromise.

The only reason why PA is willing to compromise right now is because they are not getting paid.

Pepper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:11 PM
  #532
Xref
Registered User
 
Xref's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
Comparing NHL gambling to say, the NFL is like comparing the penny machines at a casino to the high-stakes poker table.
And who is comparing the NHL to...any other sport?????

Xref is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:13 PM
  #533
NJDevs26
Moderator
Status quo
 
NJDevs26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 23,163
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xref View Post
And who is comparing the NHL to...any other sport?????
Just saying that NHL gambling is pretty insignificant and not going to help make the sport more mainstream, like paid fantasy football/point spreads/etc do for the NFL or office pools for the NCAA tournament. I can't remember the last time I heard anyone ever say they bet anything on the NHL.

NJDevs26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:19 PM
  #534
Xref
Registered User
 
Xref's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
Just saying that NHL gambling is pretty insignificant and not going to help make the sport more mainstream, like paid fantasy football/point spreads/etc do for the NFL or office pools for the NCAA tournament. I can't remember the last time I heard anyone ever say they bet anything on the NHL.
Hockey will never be mainstream here in the US. It's a niche sport that does not cater to mainstream American fan culture. It requires watchers to focus on continuous action and know the intricate rules. There is no time to walk to the fridge and grab beer and gorge on food. Hence, it's not suitable for the average sports fan.

Xref is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:26 PM
  #535
Xref
Registered User
 
Xref's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
Whose fault is that? It can be a great commercial product. The gameplay hasn't been as good as it could be, the league does a poor job of marketing its stars, they have ignored fantasy sports and botched the streaming of games. I'm sure Gary has some strengths as a commissioner but he has obvious weaknesses as well and developing the product is one. Not a great weakness to have when you're trying to sell that product.
It's no one's fault. It's an inherent flaw in the game itself. The majority of Americans just don't get hockey. They understand simple things like baseball, football and basketball. Hockey is rocket surgery to the majority of Americans, and requires focus to enjoy it. Most Americans can focus for about 3 to 5 seconds. Perfect for football and baseball, not for hockey. Hockey also has a violent stigma associated with it. And you can thank the neanderthals of the game for that. The staged fighting and head hunting is a product of the players, not Bettman. Pitting blame for hockey's un-popularity on Bettman is absurd, imo. How popular was hockey BEFORE Bettman? Not very, even less popular. If anything, he elevated the popularity of the game to what it is today.

Xref is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:33 PM
  #536
du5566*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xref View Post
It's no one's fault. It's an inherent flaw in the game itself. The majority of Americans just don't get hockey. They understand simple things like baseball, football and basketball. Hockey is rocket surgery to the majority of Americans, and requires focus to enjoy it. Most Americans can focus for about 3 to 5 seconds. Perfect for football and baseball, not for hockey. Hockey also has a violent stigma associated with it. And you can thank the neanderthals of the game for that. The staged fighting and head hunting is a product of the players, not Bettman. Pitting blame for hockey's un-popularity on Bettman is absurd, imo. How popular was hockey BEFORE Bettman? Not very, even less popular. If anything, he elevated the popularity of the game to what it is today.
Haha, are you serious? The NHL offers a fast paced non stop game that provides a ton of violence exactly what people in North America want, or at least in the US. And to say that hockey is more complex than baseball and football is just pure nonsense.


Last edited by du5566*: 01-01-2013 at 02:42 PM.
du5566* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:42 PM
  #537
Scurr
Registered User
 
Scurr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Whalley
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,733
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xref View Post
It's no one's fault. It's an inherent flaw in the game itself. The majority of Americans just don't get hockey. They understand simple things like baseball, football and basketball. Hockey is rocket surgery to the majority of Americans, and requires focus to enjoy it. Most Americans can focus for about 3 to 5 seconds. Perfect for football and baseball, not for hockey. Hockey also has a violent stigma associated with it. And you can thank the neanderthals of the game for that. The staged fighting and head hunting is a product of the players, not Bettman. Pitting blame for hockey's un-popularity on Bettman is absurd, imo. How popular was hockey BEFORE Bettman? Not very, even less popular. If anything, he elevated the popularity of the game to what it is today.
You're selling hockey and American sports fans way short imo.

Scurr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:53 PM
  #538
thinkwild
Veni Vidi Toga
 
thinkwild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,286
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
Name all the other industries where employees get a guaranteed share of revenue.
Name all the other industries that are similar to the NHL to warrant a comparison. There arent many but they pretty much all get a share of the revenue when the employees are what is being sold rather than developing the widgets for sale.

How about Bettmans own law firm Proskauer Rose? Dont all its partners get a guaranteed share of revenue? What about all the engineering and software consulting companies, often times the talent there can negotiate up to 90% of their per diems? What about a bunch of lab techs and Drs creating a joint medical practice venture?

When you start making comparisons that make sense, the answer to your question appears to be almost all of them.

thinkwild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 02:59 PM
  #539
Xref
Registered User
 
Xref's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
Haha, are you serious? The NHL offers a fast paced non stop game that provides a ton of violence exactly what people in North America want, or at least in the US. And to say that hockey is more complex than baseball and football is just pure nonsense.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scurr View Post
You're selling hockey and American sports fans way short imo.
And hockey is less popular because.....?

Xref is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:00 PM
  #540
Xref
Registered User
 
Xref's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
Haha, are you serious? The NHL offers a fast paced non stop game that provides a ton of violence exactly what people in North America want, or at least in the US. And to say that hockey is more complex than baseball and football is just pure nonsense.
Baseball is more complex than hockey? Are YOU serious?

Xref is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:02 PM
  #541
du5566*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild View Post
Name all the other industries that are similar to the NHL to warrant a comparison. There arent many but they pretty much all get a share of the revenue when the employees are what is being sold rather than developing the widgets for sale.

How about Bettmans own law firm Proskauer Rose? Dont all its partners get a guaranteed share of revenue? What about all the engineering and software consulting companies, often times the talent there can negotiate up to 90% of their per diems? What about a bunch of lab techs and Drs creating a joint medical practice venture?

When you start making comparisons that make sense, the answer to your question appears to be almost all of them.
Yes but those are still employee/employer relationships where ultimately the employer dictates the environment.

du5566* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:07 PM
  #542
du5566*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xref View Post
Baseball is more complex than hockey? Are YOU serious?
Very serious, I assume you have never actually played the sport and think it's just throw the ball, hit the ball, catch the ball? Haha, because if that's the case hockey is just skate, shoot, score.


Last edited by du5566*: 01-01-2013 at 03:16 PM.
du5566* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:11 PM
  #543
Pepper
Registered User
 
Pepper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,412
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by thinkwild View Post
When you start making comparisons that make sense, the answer to your question appears to be almost all of them.
Nope, none of those examples get a set percentage of the revenues as their salary. Many times the salaries take large share to the revenues but in no other business do the employees get a fixed % of the revenues as their salaries.

Pepper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:12 PM
  #544
du5566*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xref View Post
And hockey is less popular because.....?
Canada is dominated by the US in terms of population and baseball, football and basketball have had a stranglehold on American sports fans for 100+ years. But trust me the pace and violence of the NHL is just what Americans want in sports entertainment. It provides the quick back and forth of the NBA, the hitting of the NFL, the violence of MMA, and the history of the MLB. I love all 4 sports but I am continuously amazed by how quickly non-hockey fans become enthralled with the sport when I introduce them to it. The problem is introducing casual sports fans to hockey on a national scale.

du5566* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:20 PM
  #545
Xref
Registered User
 
Xref's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 753
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by du5566 View Post
Canada is dominated by the US in terms of population and baseball, football and basketball have had a stranglehold on American sports fans for 100+ years. But trust me the pace and violence of the NHL is just what Americans want in sports entertainment. It provides the quick back and forth of the NBA, the hitting of the NFL, the violence of the MMA, and the history of the MLB. I love all 4 sports but I am continuously amazed by how quickly non-hockey fans become enthralled with the sport when I introduce them to it. The problem is introducing casual sports fans to hockey on a national scale.
If all this were true, then hockey would be much more popular than the other sports by now.

The violent aspect of the game is a major turn-off for many. Hockey fans refuse to acknowledge it, but that's OK. I reffed the game for 2 decades and heard all the criticisms due to the violence and complexity of the sport. Sorry, but I trust only what I experience.

Xref is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:32 PM
  #546
du5566*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xref View Post
If all this were true, then hockey would be much more popular than the other sports by now.

The violent aspect of the game is a major turn-off for many. Hockey fans refuse to acknowledge it, but that's OK. I reffed the game for 2 decades and heard all the criticisms due to the violence and complexity of the sport. Sorry, but I trust only what I experience.
I strongly disagree; in the US we love our violence. The NFL is dealing with a huge fan backlash right now due to the new player safety agenda and a good portion of casual American hockey fans go to the games hoping to see a fight and are amazed when a quality hockey game breaks out. Now the NHL will also have to face the same concussion issues the NFL is currently dealing with but short of removing tackling in football and hitting/fighting in hockey they will remain violent contact sports.

I think the biggest issue with the NHL; and hockey for that matter, in North America is lack of minorities. Hockey at all levels in North America is predominantly a white manís game. As the minority populations continue to grow in the US and Canada the NHL will naturally have to target these audiences and better promote their minority players. For example I would make Seth Jones the face of USA hockey.

du5566* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:46 PM
  #547
thinkwild
Veni Vidi Toga
 
thinkwild's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Ottawa
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,286
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pepper View Post
Nope, none of those examples get a set percentage of the revenues as their salary. Many times the salaries take large share to the revenues but in no other business do the employees get a fixed % of the revenues as their salaries.
Yep, every one of those examples are companies i have seen where the product being sold is the talent itself and they get a percentage of revenues. Companies that are valid comparisons, unlike McDonalds the suggestion of which only betrays the person making the it as ill informed.

I dont see how one can deny this if seeking the truth. If the only desire is to parrot cliche despite all evidence to the contrary, then your answer would make sense, otherwise, yes, every one of those is an example of what you asked for, is a more properly valid comparison, and gets a percentage of the revenues, denial notwithstanding

thinkwild is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:54 PM
  #548
The Legend
Stamkos in 2016
 
The Legend's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,892
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by sand1138man View Post
I am sick and tired, no matter what the sticking point are at this point, the closest we have come to having a season during certain points of this negotiation are time swhen the owners have moved on their proposals, and moved again, and moved again, showing more and more good faith they THEY nare the ones willing to negotiate. AT this point the majority of the players who aren't superstars and who aren't going to be signed to 6-7 year contracts anyways are being screwed by this. Fehr is looking out for the interest of the filthy richest of the players, and keeping the lock out going because of them. What do Crosby and Millers teamates think of them right now when they are being forced to miss out on money they need to live on because Miller and Crosby feel entitled to have more beach houses? And rich players have to stop saying "Fans don't understand, we put our a**es on the line and don't compare your 10 dolar and hour jobswith ours because you don't understand" I work in a warehouse where I can get hurt (and I have ) just as easily and they do. If the people at my job who make the most money hired a guy to help them get more money, and I couldn't work until they figured out how much to pay my co-workers who ALREADY make double my pay, I would be pissed. There is no one negotiating for the lower paid players, and no one negotiation for the fans. The players are greedy and should be happy to even make minimum wage to get to do what they love, not to mention ever having to buy hotel rooms, food, gyms, doctors....they have no expenses...they make me sick... spend more a year for milk then they do becaus ehalf the year their foor is paid for.....GET OVER yourselfs and stop thinking that fans will be here for you forever...you are a disgrace, and the owners should not HAVE to negotiate with you, they own the team, you are not entitled to anything.....treated like princes and mad cause your not treated like kings
Same old ridiculous stereotypes. But since you brought up hotel rooms - NHL players are the only ones in pro sports who don't get to stay by themselves

The Legend is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 03:55 PM
  #549
DuklaNation
Registered User
 
DuklaNation's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,827
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Seriously. Name all the other industries where employees pay the costs of the facilities.
None. Its really self-explanatory.

DuklaNation is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
01-01-2013, 04:14 PM
  #550
du5566*
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Boston
Country: United States
Posts: 2,471
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Legend View Post
Same old ridiculous stereotypes. But since you brought up hotel rooms - NHL players are the only ones in pro sports who don't get to stay by themselves
I am nearly positive that this is not true.

I know NFL players have roomates, at least non star players and rookies do.

du5566* is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:02 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.