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Group B • Dec. 28 • Russia 2, United States 1 • Part II

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Old
12-28-2012, 09:41 PM
  #176
Slay
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Grigorenko is quite lighter and notably more mobile and dynamic player than Kozlov.

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12-28-2012, 10:13 PM
  #177
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I said earlier in the first thread that Galchenyuk's TOI was 9:32, but I was wrong. It was 15:46 according to CrimsonSkorpion.

Sorry for the misinformation.

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12-28-2012, 10:32 PM
  #178
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Some Russian posters are completely anti-CHL but for this game a CHL defender Sergeev was the best defender alongside KHL player Nesterov Zharkov solid too along with Grigorenko and Kucherov, didn't seem to regress to much to me. While Yakupov seems to have forgoten how to play within a team since he went back and seems a shadow of the player I witnessed with Sarnia, same with Khoklachev. Coincidence? maybe but some posters overblow these issues, Russians are much more physical these days and are not bothered by the NA physical style as they were before.

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12-28-2012, 10:38 PM
  #179
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some posters here have no clue about russian hockey but pretend to know it all: Kozlov, Poni, Antropov were the stars of RSL and Dynamo, Kozlov hyped the most of them all.

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12-28-2012, 10:48 PM
  #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wings5 View Post
Some Russian posters are completely anti-CHL but for this game a CHL defender Sergeev was the best defender alongside KHL player Nesterov Zharkov solid too along with Grigorenko and Kucherov, didn't seem to regress to much to me. While Yakupov seems to have forgoten how to play within a team since he went back and seems a shadow of the player I witnessed with Sarnia, same with Khoklachev. Coincidence? maybe but some posters overblow these issues, Russians are much more physical these days and are not bothered by the NA physical style as they were before.
Yarullin and Nesterov were the best defenders for Russia. Nichushkin was dominant and only 17 Sigaryov and Yakupov were rubbish. Zharkov was average. You would have had a point if you were not so biased in your post I have always stressed that moving to the CHL is up to the individual player and where he is with his development but I still think the majority of Russian players are better off moving to NA at 20-22 after polishing their games in Russia.

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12-28-2012, 10:56 PM
  #181
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Yarullin and Nesterov were the best defenders for Russia. Nichushkin was dominant and only 17 Sigaryov and Yakupov were rubbish. Zharkov was average. You would have had a point if you were not so biased in your post I have always stressed that moving to the CHL is up to the individual player and where he is with his development but I still think the majority of Russian players are better off moving to NA at 20-22 after polishing their games in Russia.
I feel Seergev and Nesterov were the best in this game imo, Yarullin was quiet other than his goal. I wasn't trying to be biased I agree that its up to the individual but when some feel like the CHL will make them horrible players I don't think you can say such things for sure these days. Zharkov and others still managed to maintain their skills and they have been there for 3 years some of them. It's not like Canadians don't practise stickhandling and puck skills and only teach players how to hit, dump, and chase.

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12-28-2012, 11:01 PM
  #182
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USA looked a bit tired in the 3rd. Russians' play really picked up after their timeout.

Too many bad passes, mishandled passes, players falling down for the Americans. Ya, Jones got beat on the game-winner, but his teammates forgot the trailer who scored.

Please. Split up the smurfs. It's just not working.

Better team won. Still lots to be positive about for USA.

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12-28-2012, 11:01 PM
  #183
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I still didn't think he played that good. He turns the puck over so ****ing much in the offensive zone it's nauseating.

He tries to stickhandle way too much sometimes also.

He's still physical and solid defensively, but he's so frustrating to watch on offense.
That sounds more like the Germany game than today's game. I have no idea why you think he was "nauseating" today. He was one of the better players on the team today, for sure. I chalk up the Germany game to nerves.

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Old
12-28-2012, 11:08 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by wings5 View Post
I wasn't trying to be biased I agree that its up to the individual but when some feel like the CHL will make them horrible players I don't think you can say such things for sure these days. Zharkov and others still managed to maintain their skills and they have been there for 3 years some of them. It's not like Canadians don't practise stickhandling and puck skills and only teach players how to hit, dump, and chase.
Peoples arguments are not only about practice which are significantly different between NA and Russia but also game day, freedom of expression on the Ice is a lot bigger in Russia than NA.

We both agree it depends on the player, some Russian D made the right choice moving to NA, some forwards too but at the ages Russians leave for the CHL the majority are raw talents still underdeveloped but have potential. These are the ones that suffer, not the elite talents who can benefit playing in North America. To be honest, I feel Grigorenko has definitely improved his defensive game but offensively he has developed tunnel vision. He can still pick out a great pass but his decision making seems to have regressed.

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12-28-2012, 11:25 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by Dynamo81 View Post
Peoples arguments are not only about practice which are significantly different between NA and Russia but also game day, freedom of expression on the Ice is a lot bigger in Russia than NA.

We both agree it depends on the player, some Russian D made the right choice moving to NA, some forwards too but at the ages Russians leave for the CHL the majority are raw talents still underdeveloped but have potential. These are the ones that suffer, not the elite talents who can benefit playing in North America. To be honest, I feel Grigorenko has definitely improved his defensive game but offensively he has developed tunnel vision. He can still pick out a great pass but his decision making seems to have regressed.
Defence and goaltenders seem to have the most to benefit from the move. I feel some of the lesser prospects wouldn't have amounted to much in Russia also, take a player like Vladimir Bryukvin for example not a star in Russian junior leagues and not doing much in the CHL. Players like this I feel they're unlikely to become anything great even if they stayed. If you take a bunch of average Canadians and they went to Russia and did not become stars and busted no one would really care. But say a prospect like McDavid or Mackinnon left to Russia, they would be under a large microscope and any slight regression would throw the blame towards the move to Russia . So, in that regard I can sympathize with you guys, hopefully Grigorenko, Tolchinsky, Barbashev turn out well.

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12-29-2012, 01:38 AM
  #186
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some posters here have no clue about russian hockey but pretend to know it all: Kozlov, Poni, Antropov were the stars of RSL and Dynamo, Kozlov hyped the most of them all.
Pretty disturbing you believe what you type.

Antropov had one full season in the senior league and wasn't even close to a star. He was still a teenager when moving to North America.

Poni never put together a full year in the RSL. And he wasn't even good in the league during the '04 lockout.

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12-29-2012, 01:40 AM
  #187
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but also game day, freedom of expression on the Ice is a lot bigger in Russia than NA.
Hard to argue this one, considering it's incomprehensible.

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12-29-2012, 01:42 AM
  #188
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You do know that Kozlov was drafted 6th overall, and at the time labelled a Russian Lemieux, right?
He was a Russian Lemieux and went 6th overall?

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12-29-2012, 01:47 AM
  #189
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We probably shouldn't be making any more excuses for Jones than we are for Grigorenko. After all, they are about the same age.

At 17, Grigorenko was heavily criticized for his WJC's last year and later for the playoffs.

Jones should be fair game for some tough words whenever needed. He's 18, he is draft-eligible and under the microscope. He is not a double-underager. He should be one of the best players on his team.

I expect him to rebound and do well the rest of the tournament, of course.
It's a short tournament. I won't be making any conclusions on players based on it. It's mostly just for fun getting to see guys wear their national team shirts.

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12-29-2012, 03:34 AM
  #190
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It's a short tournament. I won't be making any conclusions on players based on it. It's mostly just for fun getting to see guys wear their national team shirts.
Will American fans start to panic if they lose to the Canadians? I presume that could set up a must win game vs the Slovaks?

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12-29-2012, 03:44 AM
  #191
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Will American fans start to panic if they lose to the Canadians? I presume that could set up a must win game vs the Slovaks?
It depends on how we lose.

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12-29-2012, 03:45 AM
  #192
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It depends on how we lose.
Why would that even matter? The end result will still be the same.

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12-29-2012, 03:48 AM
  #193
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Why would that even matter? The end result will still be the same.
If we have a loss like we did against Russia, then I think we should be pretty confident against Slovakia. Maybe I'm misreading what you meant.

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12-29-2012, 04:11 AM
  #194
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We probably shouldn't be making any more excuses for Jones than we are for Grigorenko. After all, they are about the same age.

At 17, Grigorenko was heavily criticized for his WJC's last year and later for the playoffs.

Jones should be fair game for some tough words whenever needed. He's 18, he is draft-eligible and under the microscope. He is not a double-underager. He should be one of the best players on his team.

I expect him to rebound and do well the rest of the tournament, of course.
Wait, so Jones is 25 years old too??

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12-29-2012, 05:26 AM
  #195
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Wait, so Jones is 25 years old too??
Joke is getting old..

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12-29-2012, 08:00 AM
  #196
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Will American fans start to panic if they lose to the Canadians? I presume that could set up a must win game vs the Slovaks?
Will Canadians start to panic when they have to play a legit team and Subban gets lit up?

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12-29-2012, 08:15 AM
  #197
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Originally Posted by Fantomas View Post
Pretty disturbing you believe what you type.

Antropov had one full season in the senior league and wasn't even close to a star. He was still a teenager when moving to North America.

Poni never put together a full year in the RSL. And he wasn't even good in the league during the '04 lockout.
stop relying on stats

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12-29-2012, 09:54 AM
  #198
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Joke is getting old..
I don't get it.

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12-29-2012, 11:34 AM
  #199
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Will Canadians start to panic when they have to play a legit team and Subban gets lit up?
No, because many of us have little confidence in him to begin with.

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12-29-2012, 11:59 AM
  #200
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Will American fans start to panic if they lose to the Canadians? I presume that could set up a must win game vs the Slovaks?
That's not the same thing. I want the US to win because its my particular team. Losing a few games doesn't affect the long term viability of a player being an NHLer.

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