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Lockout VI - Game On! Rejoice! Players to vote Saturday.

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Old
01-05-2013, 06:51 PM
  #476
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Originally Posted by KuleminFan41 View Post
Bob Mcgowan is a piece of garbage of a person. The worst"analyst" you can have
really? based on what? his radio personna. he is not everyone's cup of tea but thats over the top.

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01-05-2013, 07:01 PM
  #477
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Originally Posted by ULF_55 View Post
Only 7 days left until it is done.

Unless the union disclaims then it will be done quicker.
And that is still a real option if the PA wants to play hardball with these last few issues.

But the fact that the mediator is still present and now formal face-to-face discussions are approaching that speaks to me that the owners wont let this thing fall apart if they are getting to that point.

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01-05-2013, 07:05 PM
  #478
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
And so does Fehr.

Problem is you are only looking at this from one side of the table and lacking empathy from the other side.

Donald Fehr has been through this exact same dispute with the MLB on multiple occasions and knows exactly what he is doing and how to do math and accounting.

If he thought there was a deal to make on behalf of his constituency, he would have done it by now.

If Bettman thought there was a deal to make on behalf of his constituency, he would have done it by now.

The problem is that the owners know they are billionaires and that the players are millionaires and that is the only wind they have left in their sail.
The owners position has been very clear from the start. They're trying to ensure the less profitable teams have a fighting chance to be competative, and grow their fanbase. This would in the long run greatly benefit the players, as the teams become more profitable, the players' share also grows. The more profitable owners are willing to sacrifice to help out the less fortunate franchises.

The PA has been flip flopping all over the place. First it's about the rich players (contract length & variance), then it's about the players who aren't even in the league yet (CBA length), and now it's about the pension and salary cap that effects all players to varying degree (richest players gain the most benefit). None of them want to give on anything.

To me, who has to make pension contributions from each paycheck, this whole owners pitching in to help millionaires retire seems a bit absurd.

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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
If the players (all of them, not just the millionaires, but the short-term contracts too) continue to vote to disclaim, this indicates there is no discord in union resolve.
None of them (or us) realize what the implications of disclaiming interest would be. As of now, they're voting on having more perceived leverage over the owners. It's really a no-brainer.

Using "union's resolve" and "disclaim of interest" in the same sentence is a bit ironic.

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01-05-2013, 07:06 PM
  #479
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ok place your bets

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01-05-2013, 07:11 PM
  #480
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Told the NHL has moved to $62.5 M on Year 2 cap, up from $60 M....

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01-05-2013, 07:12 PM
  #481
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
ok place your bets
January 10th, 23:59:59.

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01-05-2013, 07:14 PM
  #482
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January 10th, 23:59:59.
you really think they would cancel the season at midnight if they just needed another 24 hrs beyond that?

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01-05-2013, 07:16 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by p.l.f. View Post
you really think they would cancel the season at midnight if they just needed another 24 hrs beyond that?
Where do you draw that line? What if they "only" needed 48 hours? They had over 3 months.

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01-05-2013, 07:17 PM
  #484
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ok place your bets
No deal. The 2012/13 season is lost.

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01-05-2013, 07:18 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by ChuckWoods View Post
And that is still a real option if the PA wants to play hardball with these last few issues.

But the fact that the mediator is still present and now formal face-to-face discussions are approaching that speaks to me that the owners wont let this thing fall apart if they are getting to that point.
If they've settled the pension, with the players paying it, then the NHL can come up to the 63 million point for cap as they aren't on the hook for the pension costs.

So really that leaves term of contracts and CBA.

If they fail with those Bettman should be fired, I'd say Fehr as well, but he hasn't been involved the previous blunders in contract negotiations, so I'd give him another shot at it.

In baseball what is it, 3 lock-outs and you're out?

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01-05-2013, 07:24 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by hockeyfanz View Post
really? based on what? his radio personna. he is not everyone's cup of tea but thats over the top.
His bias and the way he treats callers that don't agree with him make me think that. One guy called in didn't get 3 words in and used the word soccer and Bob hung up. ******** people do that kinda stuff

He's ignorant as **** he's terrible

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01-05-2013, 07:28 PM
  #487
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
The owners position has been very clear from the start. They're trying to ensure the less profitable teams have a fighting chance to be competative, and grow their fanbase. This would in the long run greatly benefit the players, as the teams become more profitable, the players' share also grows. The more profitable owners are willing to sacrifice to help out the less fortunate franchises.
You are simply uninformed in this opinion of yours. More than a few franchises are actually in the reds in terms of profitability, and this terrible expense is supposed to befall onto the players?

Why?

Have the players not been playing hockey hard enough? Not intense enough? Not grueling enough? Have concussions not been increasing due to the very game the owners implemented under the last CBA?

Or has the NHL (on behalf of owners everywhere...it's their vote) simply marketed the wrong areas (not the players' fault now is it? They didn't decide.) and the wrong product (too fast and unobstructive a game)?


Quote:
The PA has been flip flopping all over the place. First it's about the rich players (contract length & variance), then it's about the players who aren't even in the league yet (CBA length), and now it's about the pension and salary cap that effects all players to varying degree (richest players gain the most benefit). None of them want to give on anything.
It's what any good representative would do. You are simply looking for a scapegoat to point the finger at and blame.

As a Leafs fan I am really surprised you would be choosing to side with the Phoenix Coyotes type franchises (the franchises Bettman is aiding in these negotiations) rather than the players (who the Leafs would absolutely positively just love to pay).

It really is quite shocking to me.

Quote:
To me, who has to make pension contributions from each paycheck, this whole owners pitching in to help millionaires retire seems a bit absurd.
And who takes the risk each time they play a game? Does an owner take a risk of a career long brain injury when he takes his corporate box seat when a game is held? Or is it the Colton Orr's of the league who we WANT to get punched in the head every single game?

Ridiculous as a Leafs fan that someone would suggest a player isn't entitled to a lifetime of retirement after the grueling conditions of the workplace he is exposed to.

Absolutely sickening actually.

Quote:
None of them (or us) realize what the implications of disclaiming interest would be. As of now, they're voting on having more perceived leverage over the owners. It's really a no-brainer.
I realize that the Leafs would be scooping up players or at the very least the NHL suffers a very large penalty for collusion which under most jurisdictions in the United States is illegal.

Quote:
Using "union's resolve" and "disclaim of interest" in the same sentence is a bit ironic.
No it isn't. The NHL is opening itself up to anti-trust suits.

If you understood what a "strike" was and what a "work stoppage/lockout" is, you might begin to understand what kind of legal action the NHL is opening itself to.

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01-05-2013, 07:41 PM
  #488
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Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC
MT @Russostrib Mikael Granlund pulled from Aeros lineup after warmups; Wild doesn't want to risk injury in case nhl camp on horizon

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01-05-2013, 07:45 PM
  #489
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Originally Posted by Dwight K Schrute View Post
Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC
MT @Russostrib Mikael Granlund pulled from Aeros lineup after warmups; Wild doesn't want to risk injury in case nhl camp on horizon
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=412880

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Granlund, 20, has eight goals and 21 points in 21 AHL games this season.
PPG player at 20, and his younger brother (Flames pick) did quite well at the WJC.

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01-05-2013, 07:52 PM
  #490
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Originally Posted by Dwight K Schrute View Post
Elliotte Friedman ‏@FriedgeHNIC
MT @Russostrib Mikael Granlund pulled from Aeros lineup after warmups; Wild doesn't want to risk injury in case nhl camp on horizon
Don't think it's anything worth getting excited about. I'm sure GMs will be careful with their NHL players as the cut-off date for a season approaches.

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01-05-2013, 07:54 PM
  #491
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The Mediator 2013
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https://twitter.com/i/#!/search/nhl/...c.com%2Fbssodz

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01-05-2013, 07:59 PM
  #492
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An NHLPA member told me that he would be "extremely surprised" if there's no deal by Monday.

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01-05-2013, 08:00 PM
  #493
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
You are simply uninformed in this opinion of yours. More than a few franchises are actually in the reds in terms of profitability, and this terrible expense is supposed to befall onto the players?

Why?
Because they're getting paid more than the league can afford.

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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Have the players not been playing hockey hard enough? Not intense enough? Not grueling enough?
Have the players before the last CBA not played hard enough? Not intense enough? Not grueling enough? Why did they only get paid less than half of the current players? Because that's all the league could afford at the time.

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Have concussions not been increasing due to the very game the owners implemented under the last CBA?
No. You can buy a DVD collection of the best concussions going back all the way to the 70s, known as "Rock em, Sock em". They just called it getting your bell rung back then.

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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Or has the NHL (on behalf of owners everywhere...it's their vote) simply marketed the wrong areas (not the players' fault now is it? They didn't decide.) and the wrong product (too fast and unobstructive a game)?
The players have greatly benefited from those ill advised expansions. Their salaries almost doubled since the last CBA. The point of expanding the league, and the game is to reach untapped markets, where the game is not that popular yet. It takes some risk, patience, and some short term sacrifices for long term gains.

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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
It's what any good representative would do. You are simply looking for a scapegoat to point the finger at and blame.

As a Leafs fan I am really surprised you would be choosing to side with the Phoenix Coyotes type franchises (the franchises Bettman is aiding in these negotiations) rather than the players (who the Leafs would absolutely positively just love to pay).

It really is quite shocking to me.
Not sure why. There are a lot of Leafs fans who enjoy a competitive league, where games can go either way. I would absolutely hate if the NHL would adopt the MLB or the Premier league model.

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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
And who takes the risk each time they play a game? Does an owner take a risk of a career long brain injury when he takes his corporate box seat when a game is held? Or is it the Colton Orr's of the league who we WANT to get punched in the head every single game?
It's the player's choice to do that, and they get compensated very handsomely for it. I think most people would take getting punched in the head (in most cases, it's in the helmet) a few times a month for a million per season, over having to fork out millions of dollars for no real chance of profit.

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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Ridiculous as a Leafs fan that someone would suggest a player isn't entitled to a lifetime of retirement after the grueling conditions of the workplace he is exposed to.

Absolutely sickening actually.
There are a lot of people around the world who work in a lot more grueling conditions, don't get paid millions, don't get treated with first class hotels, and charter flights. Don't pull a Kypreos on me, and start knocking firemen, and police officers.

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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
I realize that the Leafs would be scooping up players or at the very least the NHL suffers a very large penalty for collusion which under most jurisdictions in the United States is illegal.
The NHL will not start a season without a CBA, not unless they reform into a single organization that offers buy-in slots for franchises.

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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
No it isn't. The NHL is opening itself up to anti-trust suits.

If you understood what a "strike" was and what a "work stoppage/lockout" is, you might begin to understand what kind of legal action the NHL is opening itself to.
Assuming the courts wouldn't rule that the whole disclaimer was a sham, there would be a years long court case that noone (that includes you) knows how it would turn out.

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01-05-2013, 08:20 PM
  #494
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Originally Posted by 4evaBlue View Post
Because they're getting paid more than the league can afford.
But why should the players take a cut in salaries because the league decided to take ill-advised investments in non-traditional hockey markets?

The players had no say in this and they will continue in having no say in where the league decides to maintain ill-advised franchise locations.

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Have the players before the last CBA not played hard enough? Not intense enough? Not grueling enough? Why did they only get paid less than half of the current players? Because that's all the league could afford at the time.
Because league revenues were not as high.

Do you honestly not understand how the whole settlement works?

This is a laughable statement if I've ever seen one.

The NHL has fostered growth over the years.

Let's say:

2003: $100
2012: $300

With 60% of revenues the players made $60 in 2003
With 55% of revenues the players made $165 in 2012

This is called accounting.

Look up Luca Pacioli.

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No. You can buy a DVD collection of the best concussions going back all the way to the 70s, known as "Rock em, Sock em". They just called it getting your bell rung back then.
And without obstructions and the two line pass, and the trapezoid has the game gotten faster or slower? Simple question, yet again.

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The players have greatly benefited from those ill advised expansions. Their salaries almost doubled since the last CBA. The point of expanding the league, and the game is to reach untapped markets, where the game is not that popular yet. It takes some risk, patience, and some short term sacrifices for long term gains.
No they haven't since they haven't had ANY say into where the league relocates to. If the league never located into Atlanta in the first place (experiencing cap floor salaries per 23 man rosters) and went straight to Winnipeg (experiencing heightened salaries per 23 man rosters) this benefits the players. And not just the players...the OWNERS TOO! Since Winnipeg has been a gold mine compared to Atlanta!


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Not sure why. There are a lot of Leafs fans who enjoy a competitive league, where games can go either way. I would absolutely hate if the NHL would adopt the MLB or the Premier league model.
You don't want the Leafs to be successful?

Huh?

Quote:
It's the player's choice to do that, and they get compensated very handsomely for it. I think most people would take getting punched in the head (in most cases, it's in the helmet) a few times a month for a million per season, over having to fork out millions of dollars for no real chance of profit.
No they wouldn't. That is not the kind of life most people can voluntarily choose for themselves...and it's absolutely distasteful for you to suggest it.

Quote:
There are a lot of people around the world who work in a lot more grueling conditions, don't get paid millions, don't get treated with first class hotels, and charter flights. Don't pull a Kypreos on me, and start knocking firemen, and police officers.
Firefighters don't work in an industry that MAKES BILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

Do you honestly not understand this?

I mean really if you don't understand that people don't pay to watch firefighters work live in a stadium and on television then I will stop responding to each of your posts...because it's clear you don't understand very simple things.

If firefighting was a spectator sport then they would deserve more.

But it's not.

It's a public service which is reliant on municipal and provincial funding.

This is blatant ignorance.

Quote:
The NHL will not start a season without a CBA, not unless they reform into a single organization that offers buy-in slots for franchises.
No response to this..

Don't even know where to start.

Quote:
Assuming the courts wouldn't rule that the whole disclaimer was a sham, there would be a years long court case that noone (that includes you) knows how it would turn out.
And I don't. But I know what the word collusion means and I know exactly how the NHL has been behaving over the years..(Jim Ballsillie ring a bell?)

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Old
01-05-2013, 08:34 PM
  #495
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I can't believe HBO 24/7 and the winter classic were pissed away because of this bull****. I swear if the Leafs didn't have bad luck they wouldn't have any luck at all.

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01-05-2013, 08:38 PM
  #496
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I can't believe HBO 24/7 and the winter classic were pissed away because of this bull****. I swear if the Leafs didn't have bad luck they wouldn't have any luck at all.
Ah man who cares about that!

The Leafs would've gotten decapitated by the Red Wings anyway!

Sure Lupul would have made the ladies gush and Kessel being the borderline autistic person that he is would have made us laugh our ass off but Phaneuf being the tin man he is would've just looked like an idiot on live TV and embarrassed our francishe.

Has nothing to do with the product on the ice!

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01-05-2013, 08:41 PM
  #497
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Ah man who cares about that!

The Leafs would've gotten decapitated by the Red Wings anyway!

Sure Lupul would have made the ladies gush and Kessel being the borderline autistic person that he is would have made us laugh our ass off but Phaneuf being the tin man he is would've just looked like an idiot on live TV and embarrassed our francishe.

Has nothing to do with the product on the ice!
What is wrong with you?

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01-05-2013, 08:51 PM
  #498
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Trying not to get too excited but lets git r dun.


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01-05-2013, 09:04 PM
  #499
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People saying there won't be a season at this point are either being excessively pessimistic or haven't been keeping up with the latest news.

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01-05-2013, 09:07 PM
  #500
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Bruce Garrioch ‏@SunGarrioch
The #NHL and #NHLPA have been meeting for over 9 hours.

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