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Rumor: WPG/CJB swap for partial season before full realignment

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Old
01-07-2013, 01:32 PM
  #126
ajmidd12
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Originally Posted by Buck Aki Berg View Post
I just think it'd be hilarious to see a "Southeast Division Champions" banner hanging in Winnipeg, of all places
Quote:
Originally Posted by IceAce View Post
"Southeast (of Edmonton) Division Champions"
Haha I agree with you guys!

Lord knows the Washington Capitals are on a downward spiral, the Jets had the Canes number all season, Tampa Bay is hit and miss, our real foe is Florida who have proven to be quite the contender this past season.

"Winnipeg Jets - Southeast Division Champions" has a funny ring to it.

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01-07-2013, 02:47 PM
  #127
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What? Winnipeg is an all or nothing type of situation...they need demand to be very high for tickets, if it is not, they will not succeed. That means just as high for -30 Tuesday night game against Florida as other games, like Canadian teams. If they start getting into trouble playing 1/2 extra games a year against Toronto and Montreal will not make a difference...it's plain stupid to put Winnipeg in anything but a central division, IMO, with Minnesota, St. Louis, Chicago, etc. That's where Winnipeg fits naturally culturally and geographically, a mid west team. Who cares CAN-US thing, I know the Jets don't since Jets management is the one pushing for them to end up as the only Canadian team in a central division. That's where they belong and the sooner they get there, the better, to start developing our rivalries with Minnesota (mostly), Chicago(particularly right now with the high Winnipeg content on that team) and perhaps even St. Louis.
Wow, really? As a Leafs fan, I'd much rather see the Jets in the NE than in a Central division with a bunch of US teams I couldn't care less about. Have to imagine that the vast majority of Jets' fans would rather see the Leafs, Habs, Sens coming to town than St. Louis, Nashville, etc., too. It would make sure interest is high for the Jets going forward. Not that I think the team is in any danger, but more Canadian games the better. More buzz. I wanted the Jets back badly, but I don't much care for them mostly playing teams very few people in Canada care about.

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Old
01-07-2013, 03:01 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by DeathToAllButMetal View Post
Wow, really? As a Leafs fan, I'd much rather see the Jets in the NE than in a Central division with a bunch of US teams I couldn't care less about. Have to imagine that the vast majority of Jets' fans would rather see the Leafs, Habs, Sens coming to town than St. Louis, Nashville, etc., too. It would make sure interest is high for the Jets going forward. Not that I think the team is in any danger, but more Canadian games the better. More buzz. I wanted the Jets back badly, but I don't much care for them mostly playing teams very few people in Canada care about.
Completely agree. I'd much rather Winnipeg be in the East. But don't see it happening long term.

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01-07-2013, 04:50 PM
  #129
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Originally Posted by DeathToAllButMetal View Post
Wow, really? As a Leafs fan, I'd much rather see the Jets in the NE than in a Central division with a bunch of US teams I couldn't care less about. Have to imagine that the vast majority of Jets' fans would rather see the Leafs, Habs, Sens coming to town than St. Louis, Nashville, etc., too. It would make sure interest is high for the Jets going forward. Not that I think the team is in any danger, but more Canadian games the better. More buzz. I wanted the Jets back badly, but I don't much care for them mostly playing teams very few people in Canada care about.
So we can have more Leaf and Hab fans at our games for the 1/2 extra games against those teams? I don't give a **** about them, and most Jet's fans wouldn't, IMO. I go to the rink to see my Jets, and their games. Being in a division with our natural rivals rather made up ones from way out east is 1000x preferable to me. Winnipeg is a western city in the NHL (they are central city, but the NHL is very screwed to the East), makes absolutely no sense for them to have to travel all the way to Toronto and Montreal for divisional games, they will be in the west no doubt. My concern is that they somehow get in a division with Edmonton/Calgary/Vancouver, urgh.

Thankfully, Chipman agrees with me and they are pushing to be in the central with no other Canadian teams...and it's really the only way the divisions make sense, both with 4 and 6 divisions. So I'll be happy.

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Old
01-07-2013, 04:55 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
What? Winnipeg is an all or nothing type of situation...they need demand to be very high for tickets, if it is not, they will not succeed. That means just as high for -30 Tuesday night game against Florida as other games, like Canadian teams. If they start getting into trouble playing 1/2 extra games a year against Toronto and Montreal will not make a difference...it's plain stupid to put Winnipeg in anything but a central division, IMO, with Minnesota, St. Louis, Chicago, etc. That's where Winnipeg fits naturally culturally and geographically, a mid west team. Who cares CAN-US thing, I know the Jets don't since Jets management is the one pushing for them to end up as the only Canadian team in a central division. That's where they belong and the sooner they get there, the better, to start developing our rivalries with Minnesota (mostly), Chicago(particularly right now with the high Winnipeg content on that team) and perhaps even St. Louis.
If the NHL had a TV deal like the NFL and NBA, then I would have no problem putting Winnipeg in the Norris. However because the NHL is still a gate driven league and moving Toronto back to the Norris is a nonstarter, you have to put the Jets in the Adams or else they'll sooner or later suffer the ill effects of being the only Canadian team in the Norris.

The reason Detroit and Columbus had been clamoring to move into the ETZ divisions is TV start times. If there isn't enough room in the ETZ divisions for both Detroit and Colimbus then the very least you do is give them some ETZ teams in the Norris to keep them company. That's where Florida and Tampa Bay comes in; it may not be what Detroit and Columbus truly want, but with Florida and Tampa Bay in the Norris half of their conference will be in the ETZ.

As for why the shift to the four conference setup, it's the elephant in the room called the Coyotes. With the lockout all but settled, the Coyotes is a dead team walking. No owner in his/her right mind would want to buy the team without a favorable arena lease and or subsidies (bribes) from Grendale. A relocation vote to QC within the six division setup will fail not because of the city which I think would make a fine home for the Coyotes, but because of the politics and the resulting realignment. The current Northeast, Atlantic, and Central would most likely vote no, not to mention Washington, Dallas, Minnesota, and Vancouver. Bettman and his yes man Daly would have serious problems getting the two-thirds majority needed for a move to QC. Thus the four conference alignment that was approved by the BOG. Both they and Bettman know a team will be in QC either through relocation or expansion. It's just the matter of fitting the Nordiques into the Adams with the least amount of pain and drama.

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Old
01-07-2013, 05:21 PM
  #131
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If the NHL had a TV deal like the NFL and NBA, then I would have no problem putting Winnipeg in the Norris. However because the NHL is still a gate driven league and moving Toronto back to the Norris is a nonstarter, you have to put the Jets in the Adams or else they'll sooner or later suffer the ill effects of being the only Canadian team in the Norris.
Could not possibly disagree anymore with any statement. I fail to see how an extra 1/2 games against Toronto/Montreal helps the Jets at all in any way. If the Jets get in trouble an extra game or two with a bunch of fans cheering for TOR/MTL will not help or save them...you go to games to watch the Jets, Jets will not survive on other teams fans filling their rink...

Jets natural rivals are in the central, Minnesota, Chicago, St. Louis. In a year or two after realignment that will be become apparent and they will have much more intense games than a bunch of eastern teams coming all the way over, even if happen to be located in Canada...

Honestly, I prefer the 4 division system, with divisional playoff games to promote rivalries, more exciting than the conference style, IMO. Can't wait until realignment so Jets can be over in the Central and playing those teams for playoff spots...I enjoyed the one year with added games for Pittsburgh, Washington, New York R, Toronto, but it was just novelty, now I want our own identity...

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Old
01-07-2013, 06:11 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Holden Caulfield View Post
Jets natural rivals are in the central, Minnesota, Chicago, St. Louis.
I disagree. Vancouverites still remember the old Jets. There is much intermingling with Albertans. Toronto - well, everybody hates the Leafs, lol.

Winnipeg's natural rivalries are north of the 49th (metaphorically speaking).

 
Old
01-07-2013, 06:42 PM
  #133
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I don't know. Winnipeg is fairly strongly oriented toward the upper midwest, so the attraction of a new "Norris Division" should be strong. For more than a century Winnipeg has usually been the lone Canadian team in various semipro baseball leagues that cover the same territory. Minnesota is the single most obvious rival for the Jets. On the other hand, if there could be a Great Lakes Division with Winnipeg, Minnesota, Chicago, Detroit, Toronto, Buffalo and Ottawa (or something like that) that would be perfect!

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01-07-2013, 08:41 PM
  #134
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
Haha I agree with you guys!

Lord knows the Washington Capitals are on a downward spiral, the Jets had the Canes number all season, Tampa Bay is hit and miss, our real foe is Florida who have proven to be quite the contender this past season.

"Winnipeg Jets - Southeast Division Champions" has a funny ring to it.
Or take it a step further.

Winnipeg Jets - Eastern Conference Champions vs Western Conference Champions Detriot Red Wings.....the broken compass series!

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Old
01-07-2013, 09:09 PM
  #135
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Originally Posted by Mightygoose View Post
Or take it a step further.

Winnipeg Jets - Eastern Conference Champions vs Western Conference Champions Detriot Red Wings.....the broken compass series!
I just think it would be a riot to have Winnipeg VS Vancouver in the final. An all Western Canadian final.

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01-07-2013, 09:29 PM
  #136
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I just think it would be a riot to have Winnipeg VS Vancouver in the final.
No - there would only be a riot if the 'Nucks lost

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Old
01-07-2013, 10:07 PM
  #137
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
I disagree. Vancouverites still remember the old Jets. There is much intermingling with Albertans. Toronto - well, everybody hates the Leafs, lol.

Winnipeg's natural rivalries are north of the 49th (metaphorically speaking).
Not from Winnipeg's perspective. The proximity to the Twin Cities, the lack of Canadian opponents in the AHL and the CFL's need for the Bombers to be nomads have diluted the memories of the old 80s rivalries with the cities of the Smythe and CFL West. The original Jets played their last 3 seasons in the Norris. You have to be 30 years old or more to actually have any clear, tangible memories of the the old days.

Poll the Jets board. If they could pick just one team they would choose to be placed with, it would overwhelmingly be Minnesota. And Original 6 Chicago would be a nice replacement for the Jets-Flames or Jets-Oilers of 20 years ago. Plus, we love the early tv starts playing on the East Coast. More televised road games in the Pacific or Mountain time zones? No thank you.

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Old
01-08-2013, 12:35 AM
  #138
Taro Tsujimoto
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I still think the best way to go is:

EASTERN CONFERENCE

Division A

Boston
Buffalo
Montreal
New Jersey
NY Islanders
NY Rangers
Ottawa
Toronto

Division B

Carolina
Columbus
Florida
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Tampa Bay
Washington

WESTERN CONFERENCE

Division C

Chicago
Dallas
Detroit
Minnesota
Nashville
St. Louis
Winnipeg

Division D

Anaheim
Calgary
Colorado
Edmonton
Los Angeles
Phoenix
San Jose
Vancouver

Or in map form:



(Santa Ana = Anaheim, Fort Lauderdale = Florida)

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01-08-2013, 12:55 AM
  #139
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They should just make 2 conferences each with 7 Western teams and 8 Eastern teams.

Really the most fair way is to make everyone equally unhappy.

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Old
01-08-2013, 01:24 AM
  #140
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I just think it would be a riot to have Winnipeg VS Vancouver in the final. An all Western Canadian final.
Winnipeg is closer to Ontario then BC

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01-08-2013, 01:27 AM
  #141
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Originally Posted by Dado View Post
I disagree. Vancouverites still remember the old Jets. There is much intermingling with Albertans. Toronto - well, everybody hates the Leafs, lol.

Winnipeg's natural rivalries are north of the 49th (metaphorically speaking).
yeah they were pathetic ...we enjoyed playing them because they were more pathetic then us ...we don't have a true rival but once Seattle gets a team all that will change

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01-08-2013, 07:35 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
Haha I agree with you guys!

Lord knows the Washington Capitals are on a downward spiral, the Jets had the Canes number all season, Tampa Bay is hit and miss, our real foe is Florida who have proven to be quite the contender this past season.

"Winnipeg Jets - Southeast Division Champions" has a funny ring to it.
Hahaha yeah, kinda like this (which actually exists):



Atlanta: West of, um, well, the Atlantic Ocean!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Taro Tsujimoto View Post
I still think the best way to go is:

EASTERN CONFERENCE

Division A

Boston
Buffalo
Montreal
New Jersey
NY Islanders
NY Rangers
Ottawa
Toronto

Division B

Carolina
Columbus
Florida
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Tampa Bay
Washington

WESTERN CONFERENCE

Division C

Chicago
Dallas
Detroit
Minnesota
Nashville
St. Louis
Winnipeg

Division D

Anaheim
Calgary
Colorado
Edmonton
Los Angeles
Phoenix
San Jose
Vancouver

Or in map form:



(Santa Ana = Anaheim, Fort Lauderdale = Florida)
Really like these divisions!!

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01-08-2013, 08:27 PM
  #143
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I don't like splitting up Philly from New Jersey & New York just because you can say "these are southern most seven teams."

That's what made the TB-FLA in the Northeast plan pure genius. Attendance data shows that TB and FLA draw much better when MON, BOS, TOR come to town than when WAS and CAR come to town.


And the reason Atlanta was in the NL's West Division was because when divisions were introduced in 1969 Chicago did not have lights at their stadium (or get them for another 30 years). Teams traveling from SD, LA or SF to Chicago would need an off-day before playing the Cubs (there'd be 12 hours between last pitch in California and first pitch in Chicago).

So they put the Cubs and St. Louis Cardinals in the East. Atlanta and Cincinnati (both Delta hubs!) were placed in the West to accomodate this.

Baseball was smart enough not to split STL-CHI, and hockey should be smart enough not to split PHI-NJ/NY.

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01-08-2013, 10:46 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taro Tsujimoto View Post
I still think the best way to go is:

EASTERN CONFERENCE

Division A

Boston
Buffalo
Montreal
New Jersey
NY Islanders
NY Rangers
Ottawa
Toronto

Division B

Carolina
Columbus
Florida
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Tampa Bay
Washington

WESTERN CONFERENCE

Division C

Chicago
Dallas
Detroit
Minnesota
Nashville
St. Louis
Winnipeg

Division D

Anaheim
Calgary
Colorado
Edmonton
Los Angeles
Phoenix
San Jose
Vancouver

Or in map form:

http://i.imgur.com/1CNj4.png


(Santa Ana = Anaheim, Fort Lauderdale = Florida)
That's all the NHL needs to do. Simple divisions based on North south geography (timezones) and none of this forced playoff rivalry crap. The last thing I want to see in the playoffs is the same first round opponents every year.

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Old
01-08-2013, 10:53 PM
  #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taro Tsujimoto View Post
I still think the best way to go is:

EASTERN CONFERENCE

Division A

Boston
Buffalo
Montreal
New Jersey
NY Islanders
NY Rangers
Ottawa
Toronto

Division B

Carolina
Columbus
Florida
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Tampa Bay
Washington

WESTERN CONFERENCE

Division C

Chicago
Dallas
Detroit
Minnesota
Nashville
St. Louis
Winnipeg

Division D

Anaheim
Calgary
Colorado
Edmonton
Los Angeles
Phoenix
San Jose
Vancouver

Or in map form:



(Santa Ana = Anaheim, Fort Lauderdale = Florida)
looks pretty solid to me... simplified.

I like!

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Old
01-08-2013, 11:05 PM
  #146
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Originally Posted by ajmidd12 View Post
Haha I agree with you guys!

Lord knows the Washington Capitals are on a downward spiral, the Jets had the Canes number all season, Tampa Bay is hit and miss, our real foe is Florida who have proven to be quite the contender this past season.

"Winnipeg Jets - Southeast Division Champions" has a funny ring to it.
Caps=a goal from the Eastern Finals.
Jets=not in the playoffs

Seems legit.

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Old
01-08-2013, 11:19 PM
  #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taro Tsujimoto View Post
I still think the best way to go is:

EASTERN CONFERENCE

Division A

Boston
Buffalo
Montreal
New Jersey
NY Islanders
NY Rangers
Ottawa
Toronto

Division B

Carolina
Columbus
Florida
Philadelphia
Pittsburgh
Tampa Bay
Washington

WESTERN CONFERENCE

Division C

Chicago
Dallas
Detroit
Minnesota
Nashville
St. Louis
Winnipeg

Division D

Anaheim
Calgary
Colorado
Edmonton
Los Angeles
Phoenix
San Jose
Vancouver

Or in map form:



(Santa Ana = Anaheim, Fort Lauderdale = Florida)
Well done. Forward this to the NHL.

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01-09-2013, 07:11 AM
  #148
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Originally Posted by Taro Tsujimoto View Post
Division D

Anaheim
Calgary
Colorado
Edmonton
Los Angeles
Phoenix
San Jose
Vancouver
Send Colorado to Division C and it makes more sense to me. As it stands you're giving Colorado a bigger timezone problem than you realize. 1-1:30 hour games when away minimum. It makes more sense for their games to start at 6 than 8-8:30 imo.

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01-09-2013, 08:31 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by Lonewolfe2015 View Post
Send Colorado to Division C and it makes more sense to me. As it stands you're giving Colorado a bigger timezone problem than you realize. 1-1:30 hour games when away minimum. It makes more sense for their games to start at 6 than 8-8:30 imo.
The only thing there is that Detroit is sitting in that Division C. They're not going to want to be the only ETZ team in an all CTZ group, and have to go west an additional time zone for Colorado. Maybe in the late 90's, but not now.

The only way Colorado isn't in the Western group is if they put Detroit in an eastern grouping. It would make sense to have all 16 ETZ teams grouped together, but those Norris/Central teams already lost Toronto, they probably don't want to see Detroit go too.

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01-09-2013, 08:45 AM
  #150
Shwag33
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Originally Posted by KevFu View Post
I don't like splitting up Philly from New Jersey & New York just because you can say "these are southern most seven teams."

That's what made the TB-FLA in the Northeast plan pure genius. Attendance data shows that TB and FLA draw much better when MON, BOS, TOR come to town than when WAS and CAR come to town.


And the reason Atlanta was in the NL's West Division was because when divisions were introduced in 1969 Chicago did not have lights at their stadium (or get them for another 30 years). Teams traveling from SD, LA or SF to Chicago would need an off-day before playing the Cubs (there'd be 12 hours between last pitch in California and first pitch in Chicago).

So they put the Cubs and St. Louis Cardinals in the East. Atlanta and Cincinnati (both Delta hubs!) were placed in the West to accomodate this.

Baseball was smart enough not to split STL-CHI, and hockey should be smart enough not to split PHI-NJ/NY.

It's fine everyone would lose something....


NY/NJ should not be split and Philly/Pitt should not be split. Those are far greater rivalries than philly/ny.

Plus you'd gain, philly/wash, pitt/wash

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