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Paul Martin Trade or Buyout? (if there's a season)

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Old
01-07-2013, 07:21 AM
  #201
Ogrezilla
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there would be no reason at all to buy him out until we actually run in to cap problems.

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01-07-2013, 07:28 AM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
I agree. I don't so much blame Michalek, but having him be the defensive guy on his pairing will do wonders for him.
Did most people also start questioning Orpik's play when he was paired with Michalek? Michalek's advance stats have been either the worst or one of the worst of all Pen's D...Corsi, +- while on ice, GAA while on ice. All indications would point to him being the root cause of many of the Penguins' woes, not Martin. There were reasons he was moved and not Pale Martin.

Pens will only miss Michalek on 4v5 play due to his shot blocking and clearing. His problem was that he also played 5v5 like it was a PK. Martin will do much better (usually a safe bet considering last year, he can't get much worse).

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01-07-2013, 09:31 AM
  #203
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Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Unless we're just trying to create cap room. We''ll still be able to trade Martin. It'd be dumb not to get something for him.

If Martin doesn't have a strong year, we won't get anything of value for him. If he's having a strong year AND guys like Despres and/or Dumoulin are playing great and knocking on the door, then the argument could be made now for trading Martin this year at the deadline, in order to get a higher return for him than we would in the summer when the cap is going down. That would be the dillema, in the best case scenario.


If he plays like crap, then we'll have no choice but to buy him out in the summer.


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Originally Posted by Ogrezilla View Post
there would be no reason at all to buy him out until we actually run in to cap problems.

Well, if the amnesty buyout period only last during next off-season, we will have to buy him out next off-season, regardless of whether we have a cap issue for 2013-14 season or not.

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01-07-2013, 09:43 AM
  #204
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I think he is definitely deserving of a redemption season. He's a real good hockey player, that just happened to look a like a total bust last year. He knows his back is against the wall with the team. If this buyout deal doesn't start until next season, this is the perfect chance for him to prove himself.

Worst case scenario is he crashes and burns, the pens don't win the cup then they buy him out.

I'm hoping he makes Neal some more home cooked breakfasts and shines on the ice.

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01-07-2013, 09:54 AM
  #205
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I don't believe that Paul Martin has negative value like some feel. Even at 5 million, a team would take that on in a second, particularly a team like Edmonton, IMO, where he would aid that young team and bring some stability.

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01-07-2013, 09:59 AM
  #206
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Like previously mentioned, the only situation where we buy him out is if we run into cap trouble. He was bad last season but not buyout bad, give him a chance to prove his worth this season.

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01-07-2013, 10:01 AM
  #207
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
I don't believe that Paul Martin has negative value like some feel. Even at 5 million, a team would take that on in a second, particularly a team like Edmonton, IMO, where he would aid that young team and bring some stability.
UMMM he won't waive his NMC to go to Edmonton! Next

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01-07-2013, 10:02 AM
  #208
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Originally Posted by Geno Machino View Post
UMMM he won't waive his NMC to go to Edmonton! Next
Guys have to provide a list of teams they won't go to...I have heard Martin has 8. IMO, if I were a guy making my "no trade" list, Edmonton would not be on there any longer, at least it shouldn't be. That team is going to be really good sooner rather than later, and as a defenseman, he'd get quality mins and as many as he could handle.

"He won't waive his NTC to go to Edmonton" is no longer a cut and dry response. I could conjure up 8-12 teams I'd rather not go to before Edmonton.

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01-07-2013, 10:18 AM
  #209
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I hate Martin probably more than most here, but agree that there is no point in buying him out yet. We shoud:

a) Play him a little this year, if he sucks, sit him. Try to trade him and buy him out if no one is interested

b) Play him this year, if he is decent, trade him at the deadline.

c) Don't play him this year, make him work for a roster spot. Try to trade him and buy him out if no one is interested.

The main thing is I don't want Charmin Martin or his contract on this team next year. He will be bought out, but should be attempted to be traded before it comes to that.

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01-07-2013, 10:28 AM
  #210
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It's time for Shero to put the best interests of the team above his own pride.

He made a big mistake by signing Martin/Michalek to those deals... he already fixed 1 of the mistakes and now it's time for him to fix the other one.

Enough is enough. I can't stand another awful and utterly embarassing season from the $5M man.

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01-07-2013, 10:28 AM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Geno Machino View Post
UMMM he won't waive his NMC to go to Edmonton! Next
You are starting out strong as a poster here. Keep it coming

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01-07-2013, 10:33 AM
  #212
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Originally Posted by cassius View Post
It's time for Shero to put the best interests of the team above his own pride.

He made a big mistake by signing Martin/Michalek to those deals... he already fixed 1 of the mistakes and now it's time for him to fix the other one.

Enough is enough. I can't stand another awful and utterly embarassing season from the $5M man.
What's the rush in getting rid of Martin? It's not like we have other options for veteran top 4 dmen. He was awful in 40 games last year and the playoffs. He was decent the rest of the way and solid in the first year. He's definitely not a $5mil dman with his performance, but I think we should give him 20 games and see where we're at.

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01-07-2013, 10:45 AM
  #213
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Were the Martin/Michalek signings really a mistake? In 2010-2011, our defense was awesome, Martin and Michalek played a big part in that.

Sure, 2011-12 is a different story but I don't think that proves the signings were mistakes, Martin had 1 bad season and Michalek wasn't happy with the style of defense he was asked to play in Pittsburgh. Shero traded Michalek to a team he's familiar with and Martin wants to stay to prove to Pittsburgh he can be a better player. I haven't been a big Martin fan either, but we have no other alternative for the top 4 and Martin has been a solid NHL defenseman over his career including his 1st year with the Pens.

EDIT: And if you guys remember, we had to improve the defense in the 2010 offseason, it was either Gonchar and Hamhuis or Martin and Michalek. Gonchar being more expensive than Martin and Hamhuis being more expensive than Michalek. I don't think Martin/Michalek was a mistake.

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01-07-2013, 10:47 AM
  #214
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
"He won't waive his NTC to go to Edmonton" is no longer a cut and dry response. I could conjure up 8-12 teams I'd rather not go to before Edmonton.

See that is the problem people like you have, You "Conjure" things up in your mind & then take it as fact!

Martin would probably want to be bought out & then can go where he wants IF that team wants him

The reason he wouldn't want to go to Edm. is like most other players, Location, Location & Location................ OH also weather

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01-07-2013, 10:50 AM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Were the Martin/Michalek signings really a mistake? In 2010-2011, our defense was awesome, Martin and Michalek played a big part in that.

Sure, 2011-12 is a different story but I don't think that proves the signings were mistakes, Martin had 1 bad season and Michalek wasn't happy with the style of defense he was asked to play in Pittsburgh. Shero traded Michalek to a team he's familiar with and Martin wants to stay to prove to Pittsburgh he can be a better player. I haven't been a big Martin fan either, but we have no other alternative for the top 4 and Martin has been a solid NHL defenseman over his career including his 1st year with the Pens.

EDIT: And if you guys remember, we had to improve the defense in the 2010 offseason, it was either Gonchar and Hamhuis or Martin and Michalek. Gonchar being more expensive than Martin and Hamhuis being more expensive than Michalek. I don't think Martin/Michalek was a mistake.

Problem wasn't the signings it's Bylsma & his Asst. Coaches trying to Pound a round peg into a square hole.

If you sign guys like Z & PM you have to tweak your system to fit their game, Not try to make them play a completely different way than they have played their entire career

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01-07-2013, 10:58 AM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Geno Machino View Post
See that is the problem people like you have, You "Conjure" things up in your mind & then take it as fact!

Martin would probably want to be bought out & then can go where he wants IF that team wants him

The reason he wouldn't want to go to Edm. is like most other players, Location, Location & Location................ OH also weather
You did exactly the same thing by assuming Martin wouldn't want to go to Edmonton. The fact is, no one knows what teams are on Martin's no trade list. Edmonton might be, they might not be. Given the young core they have, they are no longer an automatic no trade list team. That was JTG's point and I think it's reasonable.

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01-07-2013, 10:59 AM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Geno Machino View Post
See that is the problem people like you have, You "Conjure" things up in your mind & then take it as fact!

Martin would probably want to be bought out & then can go where he wants IF that team wants him

The reason he wouldn't want to go to Edm. is like most other players, Location, Location & Location................ OH also weather
You have a bright future here


If hockey players were worried about weather, they wouldn't chose half of the cities that they do.

They are in the business to win hockey games, and in the next couple years, Edmonton is going to win a lot of hockey games.

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01-07-2013, 10:59 AM
  #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eyes of Orpik View Post
Were the Martin/Michalek signings really a mistake? In 2010-2011, our defense was awesome, Martin and Michalek played a big part in that.

Sure, 2011-12 is a different story but I don't think that proves the signings were mistakes, Martin had 1 bad season and Michalek wasn't happy with the style of defense he was asked to play in Pittsburgh. Shero traded Michalek to a team he's familiar with and Martin wants to stay to prove to Pittsburgh he can be a better player. I haven't been a big Martin fan either, but we have no other alternative for the top 4 and Martin has been a solid NHL defenseman over his career including his 1st year with the Pens.

EDIT: And if you guys remember, we had to improve the defense in the 2010 offseason, it was either Gonchar and Hamhuis or Martin and Michalek. Gonchar being more expensive than Martin and Hamhuis being more expensive than Michalek. I don't think Martin/Michalek was a mistake.
It may not have been a "mistake" but it certainly wasn't a success. The proof is in their performance and both overall have been disappointing.

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01-07-2013, 11:00 AM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
You did exactly the same thing by assuming Martin wouldn't want to go to Edmonton. The fact is, no one knows what teams are on Martin's no trade list. Edmonton might be, they might not be. Given the young core they have, they are no longer an automatic no trade list team. That was JTG's point and I think it's reasonable.
No he was trying to make the Point that PM is SOO tradeable & I have said for a long time he is not, That is why they traded Z for nothing

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01-07-2013, 11:02 AM
  #220
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I wonder if Martin's no-trade clause will have an impact on the potential buyout.

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01-07-2013, 11:03 AM
  #221
Shady Machine
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Originally Posted by Geno Machino View Post
No he was trying to make the Point that PM is SOO tradeable & I have said for a long time he is not, That is why they traded Z for nothing
Who have you been saying this to for a long time? You now have 7 posts. A little humility and critical thinking skills go a long way on this board.

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01-07-2013, 11:15 AM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Geno Machino View Post
No he was trying to make the Point that PM is SOO tradeable & I have said for a long time he is not, That is why they traded Z for nothing
You've said for a long time? All 24 hours you've been posting here?

A top 4 defenseman will always be tradable. We got a prospect and a pick for Michalek, and it was a team Michalek wanted to go back to. Had Shero not wanted to clear cap space so quickly, he probably could have sought out a better deal, but it then becomes a question of why if we're getting assets back, and the guy is going where he truly wants to go, why wait?

Also have to take into consideration, it was a different climate back at the draft. Teams wanted to add no long term contracts because of the cap uncertainty. It's different now. The landscape of the cap hasn't changed really, as we're only operating under this 70 million dollar number for 50 games or so. It will be back to what it was last season next year, and teams are comfortable working under that number.


I'd really question if trading Paul Martin is even the best option. We have no one to replace his mins currently.

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01-07-2013, 11:23 AM
  #223
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Originally Posted by Shady Machine View Post
Who have you been saying this to for a long time? You now have 7 posts. A little humility and critical thinking skills go a long way on this board.
UMMM there is life outside a Message Board ! you do grasp that fact do you not?

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01-07-2013, 11:25 AM
  #224
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Originally Posted by JTG View Post
You've said for a long time? All 24 hours you've been posting here?

A top 4 defenseman will always be tradable. We got a prospect and a pick for Michalek, and it was a team Michalek wanted to go back to. Had Shero not wanted to clear cap space so quickly, he probably could have sought out a better deal, but it then becomes a question of why if we're getting assets back, and the guy is going where he truly wants to go, why wait?

Also have to take into consideration, it was a different climate back at the draft. Teams wanted to add no long term contracts because of the cap uncertainty. It's different now. The landscape of the cap hasn't changed really, as we're only operating under this 70 million dollar number for 50 games or so. It will be back to what it was last season next year, and teams are comfortable working under that number.


I'd really question if trading Paul Martin is even the best option. We have no one to replace his mins currently.
I forget which source or even if it was Shero that said it, but I believe Murray from Ottawa wanted Z. He wanted to trade back salary which Shero said he did not want to take on. Thats probably why he got the deal he did, which i see nothing wrong with. It would have been interesting to find out who Ottawa wanted to give back. If it was Gonchar, then Im glad we didnt make the trade

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01-07-2013, 11:27 AM
  #225
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Originally Posted by Geno Machino View Post
UMMM there is life outside a Message Board ! you do grasp that fact do you not?
You probably shouldnt post that you have being saying things for awhile when you havent been telling peolpe on here that then. Just an idea!

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