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Bobby Ryan or Thomas Vanek or James Neal

View Poll Results: Well
Ryan 106 63.47%
Vanek 44 26.35%
Neal 15 8.98%
Even 2 1.20%
Voters: 167. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-30-2012, 02:00 AM
  #51
Machinehead
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
Ryan with Malkin for a full season would outscore Neal. Ryan would put up 50 playing with Malkin.
If he didn't even hit 40 with Getzlaf he's not hitting 50 with Malkin.

Ryan's career high in goals is 35. Malkin's assist per game is .74. Getzlaf's is .65. That isn't a 15 goal difference.

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Old
12-30-2012, 02:36 AM
  #52
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Ryan/Vanek


Neal

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Old
12-30-2012, 02:49 AM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
If he didn't even hit 40 with Getzlaf he's not hitting 50 with Malkin.

Ryan's career high in goals is 35. Malkin's assist per game is .74. Getzlaf's is .65. That isn't a 15 goal difference.
The absence of first unit PP time plays a role in that. He was on a 39.7 goal pace his rookie year in spite of not getting good PP opportunities.

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12-30-2012, 03:08 AM
  #54
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The absence of first unit PP time plays a role in that. He was on a 39.7 goal pace his rookie year in spite of not getting good PP opportunities.
True, he could get up way into the 40's at least if not 50 getting 1st unit time on the Pens sick PP.

But it wouldn't be just because of Malkin. People think playing with Malkin is some potion that gives you a 30 goal increase. It doesn't quite work that way.

Neal's previous career high of 27 was garnered in 2009-10, a year when Brad Richards had more assists than Malkin did this year. Ribeiro to his credit had 52. So I'm not sure who he got more time with, but either way it's not like he's never had an elite playmaker with him before. I don't think Neal gets enough credit for what he did to propel himself to being 40 goal scorer. Malkin helped alot, but the guy putting the pucks in the net still has to put the pucks in the net.

So I don't really buy into the idea that floats around HF that x winger will have an increase of 12-20 goals playing with y center. I could see a several goal increase, which is a nice chunk in its own right, but not 15.

Now in Ryan's case, the fact that he's never had 1st unit PP time makes that type of increase more feasible, but he's an exception I would say because it's rare that a player of his caliber is on the 2nd unit.

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Old
12-30-2012, 03:13 AM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
True, he could get up way into the 40's at least if not 50 getting 1st unit time on the Pens sick PP.

But it wouldn't be just because of Malkin. People think playing with Malkin is some potion that gives you a 30 goal increase. It doesn't quite work that way.

Neal's previous career high of 27 was garnered in 2009-10, a year when Brad Richards had more assists than Malkin did this year. Ribeiro to his credit had 52. So I'm not sure who he got more time with, but either way it's not like he's never had an elite playmaker with him before. I don't think Neal gets enough credit for what he did to propel himself to being 40 goal scorer. Malkin helped alot, but the guy putting the pucks in the net still has to put the pucks in the net.

So I don't really buy into the idea that floats around HF that x winger will have an increase of 12-20 goals playing with y center. I could see a several goal increase, which is a nice chunk in its own right, but not 15.

Now in Ryan's case, the fact that he's never had 1st unit PP time makes that type of increase more feasible, but he's an exception I would say because it's rare that a player of his caliber is on the 2nd unit.
I agree that centers, no matter how talented, can magically make a player like some people around here seem to believe.

Even if people have high-end talent you can sometimes get cases where there is little to no chemistry. Lupul for instance wasn't anything special when he was playing with Getz and Pears.

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12-30-2012, 06:52 AM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
If he didn't even hit 40 with Getzlaf he's not hitting 50 with Malkin.

Ryan's career high in goals is 35. Malkin's assist per game is .74. Getzlaf's is .65. That isn't a 15 goal difference.
Ryan played most of last year without Getzlaf and no first powerplay time. Swing and a miss bud.

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12-30-2012, 06:55 AM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
The people that are voting for Ryan are all fans of Western conference teams.

Typical West coast bias.
This is quite possibly the funniest thing I've read all year. And the year is almost over. HF is dominated by east coast fans. If this bias existed and was the only reason Ryan scored votes than Neal should've run away with this one.

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12-30-2012, 11:24 AM
  #58
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Ryan by a wide margin. Dangerous one on one, can snipe just as well as he can pass. Elite 1st line winger who's just getting into his prime. Give him 1st unit PP minutes with Sid/Geno and he's a 100 pt player.

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Old
12-30-2012, 01:23 PM
  #59
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It seems a lot of people have been voting based on potential, and contract has come up a few times. The question is: (who is the) best of the 3?

Vanek is the best player IMO, but I'd never take him on my team before Ryan.

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12-30-2012, 02:03 PM
  #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Machinehead View Post
If he didn't even hit 40 with Getzlaf he's not hitting 50 with Malkin.

Ryan's career high in goals is 35. Malkin's assist per game is .74. Getzlaf's is .65. That isn't a 15 goal difference.
And Brad Richards had .83 assists per game when Neal had his "Dallas Stars Career Year of 27goals". I know Getzlaf is no chump at all in the playmaking department, but playing alongside Malkin in heavier o-zone starts as the 1a scoring threat should lead Ryan to score likely 40-50goals. Neal has been hovering around 12-13% goal scoring percentage and hit 40 with malkin as a 1a, Ryan with his 14-15% career goal scoring percentage should project him to score around 45goals, and 50 is a real possibility. Let's be real here, Malkin scored 25goals more and 18pts more than getzlaf has ever had in his career in a single season. Unreal boost over an already elite center.

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12-30-2012, 03:52 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Ryan by a wide margin. Dangerous one on one, can snipe just as well as he can pass. Elite 1st line winger who's just getting into his prime. Give him 1st unit PP minutes with Sid/Geno and he's a 100 pt player.
There was one 100 point player in the NHL last year. One.

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12-30-2012, 04:44 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Wingsfan2965 View Post
Or perhaps they're just smart enough to realize that a guy who has averaged 33 goals a season over his career would put up more on the wing of Evgeni ****ing Malkin than Neal did...

Sure, Ryan Getzlaf is good and all...
There is no evidence to support this.

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12-30-2012, 04:46 PM
  #63
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I didn't know western conference fans outnumbered eastern conference fans by that much...
Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckJet View Post
This is quite possibly the funniest thing I've read all year. And the year is almost over. HF is dominated by east coast fans. If this bias existed and was the only reason Ryan scored votes than Neal should've run away with this one.
They don't outnumber, but they're all at work while the EC games are on. I have no idea how they watch games this early, so I'm gonna make the assumption they don't watch Neal/Vanek.

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Old
12-30-2012, 05:20 PM
  #64
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Ryan
Vanek
Neal

But would be thrilled to have any 3 of them on my team.

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12-30-2012, 05:22 PM
  #65
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One has Getz the other has the best player in the world in Malkin. Guess who the other guy has? ^_^ Put Vanek on a line with Crosby or Malkin and your talking 40-50 goals a season. He has already put up 40+ twice with horrendous centers.

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Old
12-30-2012, 05:32 PM
  #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awwufelloff View Post
One has Getz the other has the best player in the world in Malkin. Guess who the other guy has? ^_^ Put Vanek on a line with Crosby or Malkin and your talking 40-50 goals a season. He has already put up 40+ twice with horrendous centers.
Maybe not 40-50 but I think you'd see him transcend Neal's points if they had similar chemistry. If Vanek had a center who could hit him with passes in open ice he'd be truly scary. IMO, Vanek is one of the best pure snipers in the league, the rest of his game trails in comparison to his ability to puck the puck in his net which is why his point totals are not impressive but man he can put the puck in the net.

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12-30-2012, 05:36 PM
  #67
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Originally Posted by Tortorella View Post
There is no evidence to support this.
Continue on with your cute cop outs of "Well Ryan doesn't get to play with Malkin so you can make any assumptions, therefore Neal is better".

It's funny, really.

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Old
12-30-2012, 06:41 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Awwufelloff View Post
One has Getz the other has the best player in the world in Malkin. Guess who the other guy has? ^_^ Put Vanek on a line with Crosby or Malkin and your talking 40-50 goals a season. He has already put up 40+ twice with horrendous centers.
True plus hes heavily under utilized by Ruff. Doesnt he only get 16 mins a game? Very light mins for your top line winger.

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12-30-2012, 06:41 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
There was one 100 point player in the NHL last year. One.
Fair point. But Ryan is that much better than Neal, a 40/40 guy last year. I have little doubt Ryan would be pushing 100 pts being our RHS on the left wall and flanking the best player in the game. He's one of the best beating defenders one on one, which is a scenario he'd face regularly.

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12-31-2012, 12:21 AM
  #70
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Originally Posted by Puckgenius View Post
True plus hes heavily under utilized by Ruff. Doesnt he only get 16 mins a game? Very light mins for your top line winger.
Yup ruff hates him, not only gives him limited ice time but also sticks him in the crease on the powerplay resulting in injuries and playing hurt every friggin year

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12-31-2012, 12:35 AM
  #71
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Robert Shane Stevenson and it really isnt close.

Hed put up 50 with Malkin no doubt, and i like Neal.

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12-31-2012, 01:20 AM
  #72
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Ryan

Vanek




Neal

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12-31-2012, 01:22 AM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Rowdy Roddy Peeper View Post
Yes. It's a real laugh that the guy who plays more physical, plays better defense, and outscores his nearest competition by 20 points got a few votes.

Neals' game is catalyzed by an elite playmaker, no doubt. But his shot, physicality, and ability to find holes exploits that advantage exceptionally well. I don't think you can just assume that better mail-carriers would get more points.
Wait.... Neal is more physical than Ryan?

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12-31-2012, 10:55 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HossTheBoss View Post
Vanek
Ryan
Neal
This. Possible bias with me putting Vanek over Ryan because he has like 100 career goals against the bruins and they are all game tying or winning.*


*potentially exaggerated numbers

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Old
01-03-2013, 09:01 AM
  #75
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Bobby Ryan

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