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Canadians insist they won't dive to get calls

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12-29-2012, 03:24 PM
  #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredligh View Post
Instead they targeted star players of opposing teams, worse then diving imo.
If a Canadian player does a clean and legal hit, however the player on the recieving end happens to get injured I don't see anything wrong with that. Afterall we all need to remember Hockey is a physical game with hitting and players will get hurt. In the case Anthony Camara everyone from Canada said the officials told him his hit was clean and legal, then for some reason they changed their minds and kicked him out of the game against Slovakia.

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12-29-2012, 03:27 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by LeafDangler View Post
Diving and faking injuries are two different things. The ship has sailed on diving and it's now a part of the game for all nationalities.

Luckily the injury faking isn't as prevalent in NA hockey IMO. You see it all the time in the EPL, etc. Players stay down to force the refs hand and/or draw a card. Case in point Mikus yesterday. I think if you're hurt enough to lie on the ice, you're hurt enough to miss at least a shift. Tough thing to legislate though. How can you differentiate between broken ribs, wind knocked out and faking? Part of the problem with penalizing the result rather than the action.
Not only did Mikus not get injured from that Lipon hit, he played on the ensuing 5:00 Power Play and scored a goal. When a player does something like that I lose all respect for them and they should know better.

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12-29-2012, 03:29 PM
  #28
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whenever diving comes up on these boards i always wonder how many of those giving opinions have ever played hockey.

i play div 1 mens hockey at burnaby 8 rinks and every single player on our team would rather die than dive. the same goes for each team we play.

throughout my time playing junior hockey every single player on my team would rather die than dive.

believe it or not, there are times when what apears top be a dive is really a caught edge, or a slight off balance resulting in the player falling.. which at the NHL level turns into thread after thread about that player diving.

there is no question in my mind that most (generally speaking) canadian players who have come up the ranks through triple a then junior a etc etc have the canadian hockey culture of being tough and not diving branded on their skull - for the most part they truly would rather die than dive.

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12-29-2012, 03:30 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Not only did Mikus not get injured from that Lipon hit, he played on the ensuing 5:00 Power Play and scored a goal. When a player does something like that I lose all respect for them and they should know better.
But those canadian boys that fell to the ground like they were hit by a truck to get a penalty? Canada scored on both of those PPs. You don't lose respect for them?

Why can't we all just admit that we're fans, and by definition fans are passionate and not objective. Canadians will defend canadians, Slovaks Slovaks and so on.

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12-29-2012, 03:31 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckless View Post
whenever diving comes up on these boards i always wonder how many of those giving opinions have ever played hockey.

i play div 1 mens hockey at burnaby 8 rinks and every single player on our team would rather die than dive. the same goes for each team we play.

throughout my time playing junior hockey every single player on my team would rather die than dive.

believe it or not, there are times when what apears top be a dive is really a caught edge, or a slight off balance resulting in the player falling.. which at the NHL level turns into thread after thread about that player diving.

there is no question in my mind that most (generally speaking) canadian players who have come up the ranks through triple a then junior a etc etc have the canadian hockey culture of being tough and not diving branded on their skull - for the most part they truly would rather die than dive.
and if you converted on a PP that resulted in a suspect call would you hold that against the player? Does the win taste less sweet? Would you berate that player???

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12-29-2012, 03:32 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbio11 View Post
But those canadian boys that fell to the ground like they were hit by a truck to get a penalty? Canada scored on both of those PPs. You don't lose respect for them?

Why can't we all just admit that we're fans, and by definition fans are passionate and not objective. Canadians will defend canadians, Slovaks Slovaks and so on.
English your second language? He was responding to a post in which I state that all nationalities dive. The topic at hand was faking injuries to draw larger penalties.

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12-29-2012, 03:34 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckless View Post
whenever diving comes up on these boards i always wonder how many of those giving opinions have ever played hockey.

i play div 1 mens hockey at burnaby 8 rinks and every single player on our team would rather die than dive. the same goes for each team we play.

throughout my time playing junior hockey every single player on my team would rather die than dive.

believe it or not, there are times when what apears top be a dive is really a caught edge, or a slight off balance resulting in the player falling.. which at the NHL level turns into thread after thread about that player diving.

there is no question in my mind that most (generally speaking) canadian players who have come up the ranks through triple a then junior a etc etc have the canadian hockey culture of being tough and not diving branded on their skull - for the most part they truly would rather die than dive.
I have no clue what division 1 hockey at burnaby 8 rinks is but I can still tell you that there is a world difference between that and competitive professional hockey like the NHL or WJC.

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12-29-2012, 03:35 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
and if you converted on a PP that resulted in a suspect call would you hold that against the player? Does the win taste less sweet? Would you berate that player???
it's not about the result, it's the fact that in the moment, typically during an offensive chance, there is no part of you willing to give up on a play to draw a call - and through playing hockey competitively all my life, I can say 99% if not more of those I've played with share the same thought process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDobolina View Post
I have no clue what division 1 hockey at burnaby 8 rinks is but I can still tell you that there is a world difference between that and competitive professional hockey like the NHL or WJC.
you missed the point.

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12-29-2012, 03:37 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by wreckless View Post
you missed the point.
all i know is the canucks were diving all over the place in their series versus the bruins.

the bruins play the way you seem to like...except seguin hehe

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12-29-2012, 03:40 PM
  #35
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One Canadian embellishes a legit high sticking call, and suddenly all Canadians are divers, and threads allowed to spread across the forum.

Well done again hfboards - way to live up to the mediocre standards I've come to expect. I guess we can expect more threads generalizing other countries styles? I can think of a few thread titles myself....

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12-29-2012, 03:42 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckless View Post
you missed the point.
No I got it. Canadians are noble warriors who would rather die than dive. And yet somehow they still dive and embellish just like those dirty Europeans.

You'd get that exact same story from the Finns, Swedes etc. who grew up playing hockey.

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12-29-2012, 03:45 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davebo View Post
One Canadian embellishes a legit high sticking call, and suddenly all Canadians are divers, and threads allowed to spread across the forum.

Well done again hfboards - way to live up to the mediocre standards I've come to expect. I guess we can expect more threads generalizing other countries styles? I can think of a few thread titles myself....
Non canadians is not any diffrent then canadians in that aspect on these boards.



And its not just one canadian. It happens every tournament.

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12-29-2012, 03:52 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Everlasting View Post
Non canadians is not any diffrent then canadians in that aspect on these boards.



And its not just one canadian. It happens every tournament.
Was that in my thread?

(i feel like a celebrity)

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12-29-2012, 03:53 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Not only did Mikus not get injured from that Lipon hit, he played on the ensuing 5:00 Power Play and scored a goal. When a player does something like that I lose all respect for them and they should know better.
I've been railing on about this in other threads and all this is caused by a major problem in how IIHF games are officiated and it ends up poisoning the whole disciplinary process.

First the refs can change their minds on plays based on injuries which leaves the door wide open for players to be unsportsmanlike as it greatly benefits them and their team to do so. If victim just stays down on the ice, he almost guarantees that the player who caused the infraction will get a 5 minute + game suspension and players that get 5 + a game almost always get suspended after the game as well.

I'm 100% certain that if Scheifele had stayed down for a minute rolling around holding his knee while Mikus had gotten up quicker from the headshot we would have seen exact opposite results from the officials and IIHF. Lipon would have gotten 2:00 (+10 a la headshot rule but it doesnt cost the team) and Rapac would have gotten 5+ game and would now be serving a 1 game suspension.

The officiating and IIHF system is that stupid......and they don't even realize they are promoting the worst type of bad sportsmanship.

I really do hope the Canadians don't resort to adapting to the bad refs but it's very tempting and part of me wants them to in order to win....and that's a sad state of affairs to be sure.

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12-29-2012, 03:54 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wreckless View Post
it's not about the result, it's the fact that in the moment, typically during an offensive chance, there is no part of you willing to give up on a play to draw a call - and through playing hockey competitively all my life, I can say 99% if not more of those I've played with share the same thought process.
So you're telling me that on the ice you've never found yourself in a disadvantageous position where you could draw a call or an advantage? My friend, you need to start taking a walk on the wild side!

I had 14 staples in my leg because I elected to take a "spill" to take out the other teams' goalie when he was playing the puck in the corner....one example.

"If you aint cheatin you aint tryin!"

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12-29-2012, 03:56 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jcbio11 View Post
But those canadian boys that fell to the ground like they were hit by a truck to get a penalty? Canada scored on both of those PPs. You don't lose respect for them?

Why can't we all just admit that we're fans, and by definition fans are passionate and not objective. Canadians will defend canadians, Slovaks Slovaks and so on.
Believe it or not I hate it when players dive. However it's a lot worse when they dive and claim they got injured, when they were faking it. In fact here is an example of when a Canadian player did that in an NHL game. A few years ago when Toronto was playing Dallas it was late in the 3rd period and the Maple Leafs were winning, then all of the sudden Mike Riberio was able to draw a high sticking call. However the replay showed he was never touched at all with a stick and still went down faking it. Then he was able to play on that same Power Play, tying the game and he then scored the winning goal in Overtime. Since then I lost all respect for him because of that.

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12-29-2012, 03:57 PM
  #42
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Canadians don't dive, they do "heady plays".

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12-29-2012, 03:57 PM
  #43
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Whoa, whoa. The Canadian team would never dive-- merely embellish. They'll embellish because it's widespread in the NHL and because the media portrays it as a crafty veteran move.

In these kids' eyes, they're playing hockey the way their heroes do: you don't create a penalty, but if there is one already, you sell the heck out of it to make sure the ref sees.

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12-29-2012, 03:58 PM
  #44
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I agree with Lipon...diving is smart...might not be honorable or anything like that...but youre there to win. And winning requires advantages.

As it turns out, youre less likely to be called for diving than otherwise.

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12-29-2012, 03:58 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zybalto View Post
I'm 100% certain that if Scheifele had stayed down for a minute rolling around holding his knee while Mikus had gotten up quicker from the headshot we would have seen exact opposite results from the officials and IIHF. Lipon would have gotten 2:00 (+10 a la headshot rule but it doesnt cost the team) and Rapac would have gotten 5+ game and would now be serving a 1 game suspension.
Doesn't it speak to the character Scheifele has that he got up and skated to the bench, instead of staying down on the ice and pretending to be more hurt then he really was.

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12-29-2012, 03:59 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by Eerie Hurdler View Post
Whoa, whoa. The Canadian team would never dive-- merely embellish. They'll embellish because it's widespread in the NHL and because the media portrays it as a crafty veteran move.

In these kids' eyes, they're playing hockey the way their heroes do: you don't create a penalty, but if there is one already, you sell the heck out of it to make sure the ref sees.
Exactly this.

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12-29-2012, 03:59 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
As a general rule, yes, sad to say Canadians have copied the lead and are just as bad right now. There was a time when they weren't though, and I admired that more.
This is not a politically correct statement, but it is true.

As a 40+ year old Canadian hockey fan, it is sad to see the boys diving now just to get the calls their way. They do it now just like everyone else.

It is not the progress I would have wanted, but what do you do when diving is constantly rewarded? It's a catch 22.

I personally would rather see us lose with pride rather than win a gutless hockey game between cheaters.

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12-29-2012, 04:00 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by EmeticDonut View Post
Canadians don't dive, they do "heady plays".
This exactly. Just like running a moving pick is being a smart veteran. There's seemingly a right way to break the rules.

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12-29-2012, 04:03 PM
  #49
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
As a general rule, yes, sad to say Canadians have copied the lead and are just as bad right now. There was a time when they weren't though, and I admired that more.
Hogwash.
"Old time hockey" Eddie Shore was a renowned diver and embellisher. Players have always pushed the limits of what they could get away with, regardless of nationality.

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12-29-2012, 04:03 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Zybalto View Post
I've been railing on about this in other threads and all this is caused by a major problem in how IIHF games are officiated and it ends up poisoning the whole disciplinary process.

First the refs can change their minds on plays based on injuries which leaves the door wide open for players to be unsportsmanlike as it greatly benefits them and their team to do so. If victim just stays down on the ice, he almost guarantees that the player who caused the infraction will get a 5 minute + game suspension and players that get 5 + a game almost always get suspended after the game as well.

I'm 100% certain that if Scheifele had stayed down for a minute rolling around holding his knee while Mikus had gotten up quicker from the headshot we would have seen exact opposite results from the officials and IIHF. Lipon would have gotten 2:00 (+10 a la headshot rule but it doesnt cost the team) and Rapac would have gotten 5+ game and would now be serving a 1 game suspension.

The officiating and IIHF system is that stupid......and they don't even realize they are promoting the worst type of bad sportsmanship.

I really do hope the Canadians don't resort to adapting to the bad refs but it's very tempting and part of me wants them to in order to win....and that's a sad state of affairs to be sure.
Statement bolded for truth. Mikus was not hurt, never was hurt, faked the whole thing, and now we lose Lipon for a game (not necessarily a bad thing, actually).

Faking injuries works. That's sick but true.

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