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Buyout clause - Do we use it?

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Old
01-05-2013, 12:33 PM
  #201
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Originally Posted by stevecanuck16 View Post
Okay, if it's hypotheticals we're talking, feel free to. The future's not ours to see. I won't be participating, and I haven't discussed the future thus far. I don't think there's any reason, however, to believe Booth won't improve with a full season, so let's discuss the here and now. Again, not interested in anything but as I personally find such discussion pointless.

I hate breaking out statistics for people who don't seem to respect them, but here we go. Last season, on a bad season by his standard and his first on a new team, he produced at a 20 goal pace. Puts him at 55th for his position in points 47th for goals, still within the top-60, and probably closer to 40 when adjusted for time missed.
You most certainly are participating in hypotheticals. David Booth scored 30 points last season - you posted a hypothetical had he played a full 82 games. When you compared his pace to other players did you give every other forward in the league the same benefit of the doubt and use their pace as well? Or did you just use their totals?

You want stats without any hypotheticals? David Booth has averaged 29 points a season over the last 3 years - never once scoring more than 40. His actual production is what is most relevant here, and one of the reasons his value is being called into question.

Booth was on the trade block for at least a calendar year and no team stepped up and offered a better package than a turd of a player in Marco Sturm and an injured, pending UFA in Samuelsson. That tells you all you need to know about what people in hockey think of this guy and his game.

Like we've said all along, his next year as a Canuck will likely dictate his future. Especially if the cap is set at or close to $60mil. Don't want to talk hypotheticals? Don't get involved in the discussion...

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01-05-2013, 05:22 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
You most certainly are participating in hypotheticals. David Booth scored 30 points last season - you posted a hypothetical had he played a full 82 games. When you compared his pace to other players did you give every other forward in the league the same benefit of the doubt and use their pace as well? Or did you just use their totals?

You want stats without any hypotheticals? David Booth has averaged 29 points a season over the last 3 years - never once scoring more than 40. His actual production is what is most relevant here, and one of the reasons his value is being called into question.

Booth was on the trade block for at least a calendar year and no team stepped up and offered a better package than a turd of a player in Marco Sturm and an injured, pending UFA in Samuelsson. That tells you all you need to know about what people in hockey think of this guy and his game.

Like we've said all along, his next year as a Canuck will likely dictate his future. Especially if the cap is set at or close to $60mil. Don't want to talk hypotheticals? Don't get involved in the discussion...
I don't think you understand statistics at all. Statistics are meaningless without context, and yours have absolutely none.

Pace is an important theoretical statistic to follow because it does help shed some light on a player's production over the course of a full season. David Booth had 16 goals in 56 games with the Canucks. He was only 4 goals shy from 20 and he had 26 more games to go. In all likelihood, he would've hit the 20 mark had he played a full season, and that's what his value would be judged upon.

20 goals makes you a top six forward in this league, especially if you can do it consistently. David Booth has shown that he has that consistency. He's scored 20 goals or has been on a 20 goal pace every year for the past 5 years. That means he's consistent. The only two times where he didn't score 20 goals were two season where he's suffered major injuries.

His average of 29 points over the last 3 years doesn't matter without any context. That context is that he's had two major injuries, including a concussion that ate up most of his 2009-10 season. But in the games he did play, he managed to put up 8 goals in 28 games, which again, is on a 20 goal pace.


Now if we go back to last season and talk about Booth's first year as a Canuck. I think his value was exactly what we thought it was. Booth proved that he's a capable top six power forward. 16 goals and 13 assists in 56 games is not bad, especially when you consider in the fact that he had to adapt to so many different things that year. New team, new high pressure environment, a major injury, etc etc. To come out and play at a 20 goal pace like he did, I don't see how anyone can question his worth as a top six forward. The games prior to his injury, he was heating up tremendously. It's not hard to expect a player to slow down after an injury like his.

His trade value was low because of his concussion. He took a really bad hit and like all concussion victims, there were worries that he wouldn't be the same. With his contract, it's believable that few teams wanted to take the risk. The same thing happened with Willie Mitchel. The Canucks decided that he was fine and took the risk and so far, it looks like it's going to pay off.

If you want to talk stats, that's fine. But if you're talking stats and taking in none of the context, then you have no business in this discussion.

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01-05-2013, 05:38 PM
  #203
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Spectrefire is the man.

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01-05-2013, 05:43 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Spectrefire View Post
If you want to talk stats, that's fine. But if you're talking stats and taking in none of the context, then you have no business in this discussion.
That was an awful long post without really saying anything. You didn't dispute my point whatsoever...

When Booth was credited for his pace were the other players that missed games also afforded that same luxury in the comparison?

You want context? 40 points in 82 games playing on a team's 1st line is pitiful. Where do you think a half point per game ranks Booth among 1st line players? Here's a hint, it's not good. At all.

Pace over the last 3 years-

David Booth- 41P/82GP
Mason Raymond- 44P/82GP

There's some more context. Raymond has outproduced Booth over the last 3 years - both players in a top 6 role for the majority of those 3 years.

Sorry, half a point per game without bringing a strong defensive game or toughness to the lineup just doesn't do a whole lot for me at a $4mil plus pricetag. If there is cap space to keep Booth here, fine. If the Canucks feel the squeeze from a shrinking cap, Booth will have a target on his back if he can't improve his game and show some durability. That's just the reality of dealing with a salary cap.

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01-05-2013, 05:45 PM
  #205
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Spectrefire is correct about context. And Booth is definitely top6. The question is, and Canucker alluded to this, is he the calibre of top6 player Gillis wants on this team? Remains to be seen.



Personally, I like it when you get a young top6 player for two aging and injured vets. That was a good trade. However, moving forward, Booth has to do more. Otherwise you have to question if he is worth that 4m contract long-term.



I like him as a player, and I think he will improve. So let's see...

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01-05-2013, 05:54 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Spectrefire is correct about context. And Booth is definitely top6. The question is, and Canucker alluded to this, is he the calibre of top6 player Gillis wants on this team? Remains to be seen.
Spectrefire's point about context is moot. Booth's production compared to other players on awful teams is irrelevant. How he compares to other players on his own team will ultimately dictate his future in Vancouver. That's where some people are getting lost in this discussion, and you alluded to it in bold.

You could also make the same case for Mason Raymond being a bonafide top 6 forward due to his production over the last few years. That didn't stop Gillis from going out and acquiring David Booth to replace Raymond on the 2nd line LW...

Ballard would be a top 4 defensemen on the majority of teams in the NHL. That won't stop the Canucks from moving him if squeezed by the cap. How he compares to his teammates will, again, ultimately dictate his future. Just like with David Booth.

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01-05-2013, 05:56 PM
  #207
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The problem with booth its that he does nothing else. Does not PK, isn't very good defensively and doesn't hit a lot

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01-05-2013, 06:03 PM
  #208
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Originally Posted by ItsAllPartOfThePlan View Post
The problem with booth its that he does nothing else. Does not PK, isn't very good defensively and doesn't hit a lot
Not to mention he doesn't help his linemates put the puck in the net. Booth has awful vision and moves the puck very poorly for a top 6 forward.

Booth has averaged 18A/82GP over the last 3 years - playing on a 1st line twice and a 2nd line once. For all the talk of his goal totals you sure don't see his assist totals put in context very often. Those numbers are dreadful - possibly the worst in the NHL for a player playing those minutes...

Why isn't Mason Raymond being defended with the same vigour as Booth? The guy makes significantly less money, produces roughly the same offense but brings a more reliable defensive game. I'll tell you why - Mason Raymond isn't as shiny and new.

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01-05-2013, 06:37 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
That was an awful long post without really saying anything. You didn't dispute my point whatsoever...

When Booth was credited for his pace were the other players that missed games also afforded that same luxury in the comparison?

You want context? 40 points in 82 games playing on a team's 1st line is pitiful. Where do you think a half point per game ranks Booth among 1st line players? Here's a hint, it's not good. At all.

Pace over the last 3 years-

David Booth- 41P/82GP
Mason Raymond- 44P/82GP

There's some more context. Raymond has outproduced Booth over the last 3 years - both players in a top 6 role for the majority of those 3 years.

Sorry, half a point per game without bringing a strong defensive game or toughness to the lineup just doesn't do a whole lot for me at a $4mil plus pricetag. If there is cap space to keep Booth here, fine. If the Canucks feel the squeeze from a shrinking cap, Booth will have a target on his back if he can't improve his game and show some durability. That's just the reality of dealing with a salary cap.


You could be more direct to head off the inevitable "but, but, but ...he's big n stuff" reply that people use to defend him needs to be defeated with the following....

What is the point of size and strength if it does not result in either scoring more goals or doing a better job of defending against them.

Booth is one of the top buyout candidates on this team right now if there are any at all.

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01-05-2013, 06:38 PM
  #210
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Not to mention he doesn't help his linemates put the puck in the net. Booth has awful vision and moves the puck very poorly for a top 6 forward.

Booth has averaged 18A/82GP over the last 3 years - playing on a 1st line twice and a 2nd line once. For all the talk of his goal totals you sure don't see his assist totals put in context very often. Those numbers are dreadful - possibly the worst in the NHL for a player playing those minutes...

Why isn't Mason Raymond being defended with the same vigour as Booth? The guy makes significantly less money, produces roughly the same offense but brings a more reliable defensive game. I'll tell you why - Mason Raymond isn't as shiny and new.
Can I get an amen brother?

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01-05-2013, 06:40 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Spectrefire View Post
I don't think you understand statistics at all. Statistics are meaningless without context, and yours have absolutely none.

Pace is an important theoretical statistic to follow because it does help shed some light on a player's production over the course of a full season. David Booth had 16 goals in 56 games with the Canucks. He was only 4 goals shy from 20 and he had 26 more games to go. In all likelihood, he would've hit the 20 mark had he played a full season, and that's what his value would be judged upon.

20 goals makes you a top six forward in this league, especially if you can do it consistently. David Booth has shown that he has that consistency. He's scored 20 goals or has been on a 20 goal pace every year for the past 5 years. That means he's consistent. The only two times where he didn't score 20 goals were two season where he's suffered major injuries.

His average of 29 points over the last 3 years doesn't matter without any context. That context is that he's had two major injuries, including a concussion that ate up most of his 2009-10 season. But in the games he did play, he managed to put up 8 goals in 28 games, which again, is on a 20 goal pace.


Now if we go back to last season and talk about Booth's first year as a Canuck. I think his value was exactly what we thought it was. Booth proved that he's a capable top six power forward. 16 goals and 13 assists in 56 games is not bad, especially when you consider in the fact that he had to adapt to so many different things that year. New team, new high pressure environment, a major injury, etc etc. To come out and play at a 20 goal pace like he did, I don't see how anyone can question his worth as a top six forward. The games prior to his injury, he was heating up tremendously. It's not hard to expect a player to slow down after an injury like his.

His trade value was low because of his concussion. He took a really bad hit and like all concussion victims, there were worries that he wouldn't be the same. With his contract, it's believable that few teams wanted to take the risk. The same thing happened with Willie Mitchel. The Canucks decided that he was fine and took the risk and so far, it looks like it's going to pay off.

If you want to talk stats, that's fine. But if you're talking stats and taking in none of the context, then you have no business in this discussion.
Should we ignore stats? What about the good ones like $ of salary per point?

Relative to Higgins and Raymond, Booth looks like a great buyout candidate. Especially to a GM that may believe in Billy Bean.

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01-05-2013, 07:15 PM
  #212
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Spectrefire's point about context is moot. Booth's production compared to other players on awful teams is irrelevant. How he compares to other players on his own team will ultimately dictate his future in Vancouver. That's where some people are getting lost in this discussion, and you alluded to it in bold.

You could also make the same case for Mason Raymond being a bonafide top 6 forward due to his production over the last few years. That didn't stop Gillis from going out and acquiring David Booth to replace Raymond on the 2nd line LW...

Ballard would be a top 4 defensemen on the majority of teams in the NHL. That won't stop the Canucks from moving him if squeezed by the cap. How he compares to his teammates will, again, ultimately dictate his future. Just like with David Booth.


No, I don't think the point about context is moot. I think I was pretty balanced in my analysis.

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01-05-2013, 07:24 PM
  #213
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The biggest problem I have with Booth is his apparent lack of hockey sense.

That's a purely subjective judgement of course, but I do watch the game.

He has a pretty good physical package and every now and then he pulls off a jaw dropping move, but a combination of injury and inconsistency puts him on the bubble as a top six player, IMO.

He'll get his chance if and when we have a season, but he is pretty bloody expensive in this new cap world.

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01-05-2013, 07:35 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
That was an awful long post without really saying anything. You didn't dispute my point whatsoever...

When Booth was credited for his pace were the other players that missed games also afforded that same luxury in the comparison?

You want context? 40 points in 82 games playing on a team's 1st line is pitiful. Where do you think a half point per game ranks Booth among 1st line players? Here's a hint, it's not good. At all.

Pace over the last 3 years-

David Booth- 41P/82GP
Mason Raymond- 44P/82GP

There's some more context. Raymond has outproduced Booth over the last 3 years - both players in a top 6 role for the majority of those 3 years.

Sorry, half a point per game without bringing a strong defensive game or toughness to the lineup just doesn't do a whole lot for me at a $4mil plus pricetag. If there is cap space to keep Booth here, fine. If the Canucks feel the squeeze from a shrinking cap, Booth will have a target on his back if he can't improve his game and show some durability. That's just the reality of dealing with a salary cap.
Booth doesn't play on the topline. He plays on the 2nd line. You need to stop looking at the point total and look at the goal total. There is nothing surprising about his point total. He's also been a goalscorer and not much of a passer which explains his low assist count. He wasn't brought onto this team to rack up assists, he was brought here to wrack up goals and he's doing that.

Also, you don't do pace over a multi-year period. You caculate pace based on yearly totals and rounding up the game played to 82.

Also, you need to take into the context of Raymond's 2009-10. He produced way above what his historical stats should indicate. If you take into all his seasons besides that, you see that he's a 15 goal third line player, not 20 goal top six forward. 2009-10 is a statistical anomaly. Outside of that, he's easily a consistent 15 goal scorer. Also, Raymond only had one major injury in those three years, and most of his rehabilitation took place in the off season. Booth was injured in season, and had to get back into game form during the season, which no doubt threw off a lot of games. Raymond also never had to adapt to a new city, team, system, Booth did.

I just don't understand why you're putting so much stock into David Booth's points total and ignoring his goal count. He's a goal scorer. He's not going to post high point totals, but he's proven he can consistently score 20 goals over a full season. That's what makes him valuable to the Canucks.

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01-05-2013, 07:54 PM
  #215
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Originally Posted by Spectrefire View Post
Booth doesn't play on the topline. He plays on the 2nd line. You need to stop looking at the point total and look at the goal total. There is nothing surprising about his point total. He's also been a goalscorer and not much of a passer which explains his low assist count. He wasn't brought onto this team to rack up assists, he was brought here to wrack up goals and he's doing that.
Booth was a 1st line player in Florida...

Booth wasn't brought here to rack up goals, he was brought here to elevate the play of Ryan Kesler and the 2nd line. He did not do that last season and it remains to be seen if he does moving forward. It also doesn't make a lot of sense to say his abysmal playmaking is irrelevant when you consider he's playing with a shoot-first, goalscoring centreman. Had we brought him in to finish plays for a playmaking centre, I would agree with your assertion. That's not the case.

Why aren't we allowed to look at Booth's assist totals with any context? Doesn't it defeat the whole purpose of looking for context when you get to arbitrarily decide what gets evaluated?

Mason Raymond followed up his 53 point season with a 46 point pace. The outlier here is last season where he was coming off a brutal, career threatening broken back. If Booth is seen as a valuable asset at $4mil plus you have to say Raymond is as well at $2mil and change.

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01-05-2013, 08:33 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Booth was a 1st line player in Florida...

Booth wasn't brought here to rack up goals, he was brought here to elevate the play of Ryan Kesler and the 2nd line. He did not do that last season and it remains to be seen if he does moving forward. It also doesn't make a lot of sense to say his abysmal playmaking is irrelevant when you consider he's playing with a shoot-first, goalscoring centreman. Had we brought him in to finish plays for a playmaking centre, I would agree with your assertion. That's not the case.

Why aren't we allowed to look at Booth's assist totals with any context? Doesn't it defeat the whole purpose of looking for context when you get to arbitrarily decide what gets evaluated?

Mason Raymond followed up his 53 point season with a 46 point pace. The outlier here is last season where he was coming off a brutal, career threatening broken back. If Booth is seen as a valuable asset at $4mil plus you have to say Raymond is as well at $2mil and change.
Excellent post. Spot on.

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01-05-2013, 08:57 PM
  #217
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Great posts, Spectre. You seem to be a lot better at explaining the details than me, but I'm glad to see you can see where I'm coming from.

To Canucker's specific question on why Raymond isn't being afforded the same chance as Booth, I think Wisp already answered that nicely. Raymond has had a multitude of opportunities and has failed each time, rarely showing any sort of chemistry with Ryan Kesler.

Booth, on the other hand, had a half a chance on a new team, with an injury, and still managed to outproduce Raymond and show brief spurts of chemistry (The AMEX line as a whole.) Combined with previous history, that's why David Booth is being given more of a chance.

As for your comments on Booth's personal beliefs, I can do nothing but shake my head at you. The first step to enlightenment is knowing that there are multiple answers to the same question. By expecting someone else to conform to your set of personal beliefs and to judge them for not conforming is literally no different than the expectations of your average religious zealot. Feel free to speak out about your beliefs, never prescribe them to others. So far, I haven't seen Booth push his beliefs on others, just speak openly and passionately about them. I suggest you do the same, but you won't, so whatever. Just know that you're talking to a History major here who is absolutely disgusted by the long, sordid history of that particular religion, but I'm equally disgusted to see such things from the side of reason and tolerance. I won't discuss this further, just realize that it isn't a bible-thumper here calling you a sinner, as you seemed to assume, just a regular old atheist calling you an a**hole.

And Bleach is right in that there are two separate arguments going on here. I think everyone in this thread is in agreement that Booth is not the ideal solution at 2nd line wing, but I think everyone also agrees he's the best current option. However, I still am flabbergasted as to the continued talk of a buyout.

In order to buyout David Booth he would have to:
1) Have a half-season occur (looking likely) and have the amnesty buyout actually come into effect (speculation, right now). Again, I think we agree that a regular buyout is not an option.

2) Play worse in it than he did last year because
a) If he plays about the same he will almost certainly retain value in a trade, and thus it would be impractical to buy him out.
b) If he plays better, he'll be in about the 25 goal range, which again would make his production near irreplaceable without serious asset loss.

3) Be outshone by Ballard, who makes as much and plays a less important role on the team, or else we would buyout Ballard (if there is an amnesty buyout, I find it highly unlikely it would be two rather than one, but I suppose that's possible).

4) Have Luongo's contract situation work out in our favour, because if it is punished by the new CBA and becomes an anchor (or has his cap hit revert to the signing team upon retirement) we will almost certainly have to use the buyout on him.

5) Have an improved replacement readily available without having to gut depth in another area, and this replacement has to have either the same salary or less, as the cap will have gone down at this point.

We will not acquire an improvement at that salary via a trade without giving up significant assets. Would you be looking to trade such a player for cheap?

If such a player is available from free agency, I doubt we'd be able to sign them for a reasonable salary. Especially given the more even playing field that will result from this CBA, and the signing frenzy that will undoubtedly occur. Again, I wouldn't hold my breath.

That right there is 5 conditions of various likelihood that would have to fall into place in order to buyout David Booth. I think it's fair, then, to state that such a scenario is at best unlikely. Given that, I think it's also fair to suggest that these thoughts are being driven more by personal dislike rather than facts, figures, or reasonable conjecture, given the repetition of these personal grievances. This is what I've been saying all along. Simply shameful, and again, personally unpleasant to see my personal convictions used in such petty ways.

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01-05-2013, 09:02 PM
  #218
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Booth was a 1st line player in Florida...

Booth wasn't brought here to rack up goals, he was brought here to elevate the play of Ryan Kesler and the 2nd line. He did not do that last season and it remains to be seen if he does moving forward. It also doesn't make a lot of sense to say his abysmal playmaking is irrelevant when you consider he's playing with a shoot-first, goalscoring centreman. Had we brought him in to finish plays for a playmaking centre, I would agree with your assertion. That's not the case.
I know I covered most of this in my above post, but I had to mention this specifically. Did ANYONE have success with Kesler last season? I mean, I love the guy, but he took a definitive step back and played a lot more selfishly than necessary last year. Given that Kesler had a career season the year before that is unlikely to be repeated, I don't think elevating his play this season was a realistic possibility, no matter who he was put with. It was more about managing the step back, which I admit was done poorly. However, if you were expecting Booth's addition to the lineup to push Kesler above 2010-2011 heights, your expectations are simply too high.

Also, why no criticism of Kesler in this regard? Generally the responsibility of making those around him better falls to the best player on a line, not the complementary pieces. Again, argue all you want that Kesler and Booth don't fit together, but why does all the criticism fall to Booth? Did the AMEX line not succeed when Kesler was at his best last season? I really think Kesler's poor season is affecting your judgement here, especially given its stark contrast to the year before.

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01-05-2013, 09:24 PM
  #219
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Just a final note, while the discussion on personal beliefs and freedoms, and the legitimacy of criticizing or judging others based on them, is certainly a rich and interesting discussion, I don't feel it belongs on this board and probably shouldn't have entered the discussion in the first place.

That being said, I would love to discuss it further with any of you, particularly Canucker. Again, I think we've got pretty similar beliefs, so I don't want to debate, but perhaps explain a little better where I'm coming from. To save this thread from devolving, I think this would be better done over PM. Let this be the end of such talk, and please feel free to send me a message. I will leave it up to you, and I will ignore the topic from here on out on this board. Let's keep this to hockey talk, with a hint of economics.


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01-05-2013, 09:33 PM
  #220
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Also, why no criticism of Kesler in this regard? Generally the responsibility of making those around him better falls to the best player on a line, not the complementary pieces.
The discussion I entered into was about value and potential cap casualty's under a $60mil cap. Kesler obviously doesn't enter into the equation here. And Kesler has been roundly criticized for his play last season, even though he was labouring through more than 1 serious injury for most of the season...

Still don't see anything wrong with saying Booth's job is on the line under a $60mil cap. Nobody has come close to convincing me otherwise.

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01-05-2013, 09:44 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
The discussion I entered into was about value and potential cap casualty's under a $60mil cap. Kesler obviously doesn't enter into the equation here. And Kesler has been roundly criticized for his play last season, even though he was labouring through more than 1 serious injury for most of the season...

Still don't see anything wrong with saying Booth's job is on the line under a $60mil cap. Nobody has come close to convincing me otherwise.
Here you go: cap won't be 60. It will probably be 64-65.

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01-05-2013, 09:51 PM
  #222
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Originally Posted by Proto View Post
Here you go: cap won't be 60. It will probably be 64-65.
That would make it more likely Booth sticks around.

Though if he gets outplayed by Mason Raymond next season you have to think his days are numbered.

Here we go again.

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01-05-2013, 09:56 PM
  #223
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
The discussion I entered into was about value and potential cap casualty's under a $60mil cap. Kesler obviously doesn't enter into the equation here. And Kesler has been roundly criticized for his play last season, even though he was labouring through more than 1 serious injury for most of the season...

Still don't see anything wrong with saying Booth's job is on the line under a $60mil cap. Nobody has come close to convincing me otherwise.
$60mil cap can then be added to the list of stipulations posted above. Looking less and less likely, but again we won't know for awhile.

However, that would just make him a cap casualty, not someone who is really deserving of a buyout (or the amount of scorn that has been thrown on him). At that point, we'd be buying him out and settling for a downgrade or a prospect. You've said numerous times that you don't want David Booth getting in the way of an improvement. Nobody does. If the cap goes down to $60million and an improvement becomes available that somehow has a lesser or equal cap hit, I'll call Booth myself and tell him he's bought out. I'd offer to drive him to the airport, but I don't have a gunrack on my car. (<-This is a joke, take it as such).

So I have to ask you to give me a hypothetical here, which is funny given previous discussion. However, I will add the caveats that a) this hypothetical is still based on all of the stipulations discussed thus far, and is still very unlikely, and thus somewhat frivolous to discuss, and b) all hypotheticals are a matter of opinion, and no matter what you say we can agree to disagree and nothing more until the future comes to pass, so no need to argue for pages and pages.

Okay, with that out of the way, if all of these things come to pass, David Booth has a trainwreck of a year, nobody will take him in a trade, the amnesty buyout does turn out to exist, and the cap goes down to $60million, etc., what realistic options for improvement do you foresee? I suppose we've already covered Raymond's potential for improvement, but don't forget such improvement would also come with a raise (though not to Booth's caphit). Any other hypothetical improvements you could lay out for me? (Not being sarcastic, I am interested to see what you have in mind.)

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01-05-2013, 10:03 PM
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Seems like we're finally starting to come together here, so let me throw this out. I posted a similar lineup before the season, with the caveat that Schroeder performed well enough in a scoring role in Kesler's absence to remain in a scoring role, allowing Kesler to focus slightly more on checking. Also requires Kassian to perform at a top-6 level in the NHL. This may be less likely to occur now, with the season starting later, but the basic idea is to have Kesler centering the "3rd line" which would actually play more than the 2nd and take the toughest matchups.

Sedin-Sedin-Kassian
Booth-Schroeder-Higgins
Burrows-Kesler-Hansen
Pinizzotto-Malhotra-Lapierre (4th line is a bit of a toss up, but I'm a huge Pinizzotto fan)

Sopel (sorry to call you that, btw. Sounds like an insult), I believe this would allay your worries about Booth needing a pass-first centerman. I love the Burrows-Kesler-Hansen line, and while this might hurt Kesler's offense it would show up in the W column and drive the other team insane.

I am a huge fan of that lineup and I believe it could be done under a pretty low cap, although it is tough to say with a few raises due...

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01-05-2013, 10:03 PM
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Originally Posted by stevecanuck16 View Post
Okay, with that out of the way, if all of these things come to pass, David Booth has a trainwreck of a year, nobody will take him in a trade, the amnesty buyout does turn out to exist, and the cap goes down to $60million, etc., what realistic options for improvement do you foresee? I suppose we've already covered Raymond's potential for improvement, but don't forget such improvement would also come with a raise (though not to Booth's caphit). Any other hypothetical improvements you could lay out for me? (Not being sarcastic, I am interested to see what you have in mind.)
Depends how this season plays out. I could see Higgins and Hansen flanking Kesler to assemble a line that could go head to head with the opposition's top players. Maybe Raymond rebounds to his 45-55 point form and becomes an option at roughly half Booth's salary. Kassian potentially shows improvements and some chemistry as a playmaker on Kesler's right side. Maybe Kulemin comes into the picture in a Luongo deal. Free agency will have a player or 2 that could slot into a top 6 role.

Lots of options could play out. Improvement won't necessarily be what facilitates change either. Getting under the cap would be the likely driving force behind Booth moving on...

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