HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > The History of Hockey
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

The History of Hockey Relive great moments in hockey history and discuss how the game has changed over time.

Trottier or Yzerman?

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
02-22-2005, 08:01 PM
  #1
revolverjgw
Registered User
 
revolverjgw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Nova Scotia
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,487
vCash: 500
Trottier or Yzerman?

Bryan, not Guy or Joel.

Who do you think had the better career? Who was the better player in their prime? Who would you take now if they were both magically inserted into the '06 draft (if there IS one)? Who would you want as your pivot in the 3rd period of game 7?

I'd take Trottier in pretty much every category, mainly for aesthetic reasons. Qualty-wise, I find it very hard to justfiy one over the other, kind of a wash. I just liked his game more, his gruff 'tude (loved the clip of Stevens and Trottier trashtalking Bellows from the Pens bench), and I loved the ''throwback factor'' he had. He was fun to watch, a tough ******* scoring whiz.

Steve has the better numbers, especially when we get to their late careers... Bryan focused on defense during the Pens years. Both were Selke candidates at some point in their careers, but Bryan was a respected two-way force pretty much right from the start. Bryan never scored 155 points, but I'd still take his rough and tumble 120-130 points seasons over that.

On the Gretzky DVD, it shows Trottier knocking Wayne on his ass in the corner... a video clip speaks a few thousand words. I gather he was definitely the best center in the game until Wayne came along, and you could make an argument for him being the best center in the game even when Wayne DID arrive... at least for a little while.

Trots has 6 cups to Stevie Y's 3, though I'm not a big fan of citing how many cups someone has. But it's telling that Bryan won multiple cups with two different teams... he was a winner. Both the Pens AND the Isles never won a cup without Bryan. :-)


Last edited by revolverjgw: 02-24-2005 at 01:16 AM.
revolverjgw is offline  
Old
02-23-2005, 04:03 PM
  #2
Big Phil
Registered User
 
Big Phil's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 23,741
vCash: 500
Hmmm. Let's see here. Trottier vs. Yzerman. I'm not so sure that Trottier was the best centreman of all time before Gretzky though. He was great but I would put Beliveau and Esposito ahead of him before that. That being said Trottier is better than Yzerman by a bit. 6 Cups vs. 3. Trottier has several all star selections and Yzerman only one. Yzerman may have come at a bad time though. He was always exciting to watch, but even the year he hit 155 points Gretzky and Lemieux still had more. He was often overshadowed.

As for all around Trottier was better. He was just a little more complete. If you tak the years of '78-84 and compare Yzermans 87-93 Trottier is a little bit better. That was the peak of each o them. But hey Yzerman is still a first ballot Hall of Famer and is third all time in points for a season behind many of Mario and Wayne's seasons.

Big Phil is offline  
Old
02-23-2005, 05:49 PM
  #3
Frightened Inmate #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 4,385
vCash: 500
Trottier and it really isn't that close to be honest with you... I find that Yzerman is becoming somewhat overrated on these boards (with the talk of him being a top 10 player of all time and what not)....

Frightened Inmate #2 is offline  
Old
02-23-2005, 06:29 PM
  #4
Trottier
Very Random
 
Trottier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 29,236
vCash: 500
I would never say a cross word about Steve Yzerman, an obvious hall of famer, and one of the greats of his time.

That said, Bryan Trottier remains the most complete NHL forward I have ever seen, in following the sport for more years than I wish to admit.

Please note: That is not to be confused with "the best" player ever. A certain defenseman in Boston holds that title, IMO, and obviously, a very persuasive case can be made for #99 and #66, at least among those in my time. Those three players' offensive skills alone transcended the sport.

***

It is well-known that Stevie Y names Bryan Trottier as his idol, hence the #19 jersey.

Trottier is offline  
Old
02-23-2005, 06:38 PM
  #5
Chili
Registered User
 
Chili's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: la Belle Province
Country: Antarctica
Posts: 2,936
vCash: 500
Flip a coin.

They both had great careers and brought similiar skills to their teams.

Trottier was near the end of the road with the Pens but was still a key player, especially leadership wise...and I could say the same about Stevie Y with the Wings.

Chili is offline  
Old
02-23-2005, 07:28 PM
  #6
Malefic74
Registered User
 
Malefic74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Halfway between Nothing and Not Much Else
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,758
vCash: 500
I will also throw my vote for Trottier. The only category where Steve might have the advantage is hands. Yzerman is probably the better stickhandler of the two and has a softer touch around the net.

The big difference to me is Torttier's physicality. He was pound-for-pound probably one of the best hitters in the game in the early 80s, no question. He was strong, could create his own space and most importantly for centre he could distribute the puck. He had no weaknesses in his game which made him very difficult to play against.

Big Phil, it's a little unfair to pick on Yzerman for his All-Star selections when he was stuck behind Gretzky, Messier, Hawerchuk and Savard in the Campbell Conference.

Malefic74 is offline  
Old
02-23-2005, 07:34 PM
  #7
#66
Registered User
 
#66's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Country: United States
Posts: 11,404
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
I would never say a cross word about Steve Yzerman, an obvious hall of famer, and one of the greats of his time.

That said, Bryan Trottier remains the most complete NHL forward I have ever seen, in following the sport for more years than I wish to admit.

Please note: That is not to be confused with "the best" player ever. A certain defenseman in Boston holds that title, IMO, and obviously, a very persuasive case can be made for #99 and #66, at least among those in my time. Those three players' offensive skills alone transcended the sport.

***

It is well-known that Stevie Y names Bryan Trottier as his idol, hence the #19 jersey.
Just another great post by Trottier. I agree with everything you said.

#66 is offline  
Old
02-23-2005, 08:07 PM
  #8
Frightened Inmate #2
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Calgary
Posts: 4,385
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Malefic74
I will also throw my vote for Trottier. The only category where Steve might have the advantage is hands. Yzerman is probably the better stickhandler of the two and has a softer touch around the net.

The big difference to me is Torttier's physicality. He was pound-for-pound probably one of the best hitters in the game in the early 80s, no question. He was strong, could create his own space and most importantly for centre he could distribute the puck. He had no weaknesses in his game which made him very difficult to play against.

Big Phil, it's a little unfair to pick on Yzerman for his All-Star selections when he was stuck behind Gretzky, Messier, Hawerchuk and Savard in the Campbell Conference.
The point would still stand though that Yzerman wasn't as good as Gretzky, Messier, Hawerchuk, and Savard at the time then.....

Frightened Inmate #2 is offline  
Old
02-23-2005, 09:21 PM
  #9
naihlflames
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Detroit MI
Country: United States
Posts: 2,106
vCash: 500
I gotta go with Yzerman. He has 154 more goals and 142 more assists for a total of 296 points. Yzerman played on a loaded team later in his career, but started with a team that was terrible. Trottier played on a loaded Islanders team. Yzerman became a Captain at a young age and turned a laughing stock of a franchise into one of the best in the 90's and early 00's. Yzerman also played much of his career during the "trapping" phase and still put up solid numbers. Not only are his offensive stats better, he is also one of the best two-way forwards, as he won a Selke.

BTW: I hate these posts. Both are great hall of fame players. From all the posts above, it is not obvious that Trottier was better than Yzerman.

naihlflames is offline  
Old
02-23-2005, 09:24 PM
  #10
ALF AmericanLionsFan
Registered User
 
ALF AmericanLionsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Cleveland, Ohio USA
Country: United States
Posts: 7,580
vCash: 500
I like Yzerman. Like his better scoring ability

ALF AmericanLionsFan is offline  
Old
02-23-2005, 09:29 PM
  #11
Habsfan 32
Registered User
 
Habsfan 32's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Way up north...
Country: Canada
Posts: 6,316
vCash: 500
Send a message via ICQ to Habsfan 32 Send a message via MSN to Habsfan 32
I'd take Trottier.

Habsfan 32 is offline  
Old
02-23-2005, 10:02 PM
  #12
BM67
Registered User
 
BM67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: In "The System"
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,615
vCash: 500
Yzerman has had the better career, but Trottier was better in his prime.

BM67 is offline  
Old
02-24-2005, 11:24 AM
  #13
KariyaIsGod*
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 4,139
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
I would never say a cross word about Steve Yzerman, an obvious hall of famer, and one of the greats of his time.

That said, Bryan Trottier remains the most complete NHL forward I have ever seen, in following the sport for more years than I wish to admit.

Please note: That is not to be confused with "the best" player ever. A certain defenseman in Boston holds that title, IMO, and obviously, a very persuasive case can be made for #99 and #66, at least among those in my time. Those three players' offensive skills alone transcended the sport.

***

It is well-known that Stevie Y names Bryan Trottier as his idol, hence the #19 jersey.
I agree, Don Sweeney was a heck of aplayer when he was in Boston. Personally, I've never seen better.

KariyaIsGod* is offline  
Old
02-24-2005, 11:35 AM
  #14
Darth Milbury
Registered User
 
Darth Milbury's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Searching for Kvasha
Country: Bosnia and Herzegovina
Posts: 44,583
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Trottier
I would never say a cross word about Steve Yzerman, an obvious hall of famer, and one of the greats of his time.

That said, Bryan Trottier remains the most complete NHL forward I have ever seen, in following the sport for more years than I wish to admit.

Please note: That is not to be confused with "the best" player ever. A certain defenseman in Boston holds that title, IMO, and obviously, a very persuasive case can be made for #99 and #66, at least among those in my time. Those three players' offensive skills alone transcended the sport.

.
For the most part, I agree with all your points. I would, however, hesitate to call Trottier the "most complete" because there were a few others who were probably his equal in all around game (Messier and Sittler come to mind).


If push comes to shove, I'd probably rank Yzerman a hair below Messier and Trottier.

And, having seen Gretzky, Orr, and Mario all play in their prime, I'd take Orr above all.

Darth Milbury is offline  
Old
02-24-2005, 01:38 PM
  #15
Trottier
Very Random
 
Trottier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: San Diego
Posts: 29,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Darth Milbury
For the most part, I agree with all your points. I would, however, hesitate to call Trottier the "most complete" because there were a few others who were probably his equal in all around game (Messier and Sittler come to mind).
Yes, of course, it is all subjective. I preferred Trottier's defensive game demonstrably over Messier's, though the latter was a more dynamic offensive player. Can't lose either way.

Sittler is an interesting name to throw out, Darth.

Aside from Trottier and Messier, the name that jumps to my mind as one of the most complete forwards I've ever seen is none other than Peter Forsberg. Really does not lack an element in his game and is a non-stop fierce competitor, which separated Trottier and Messier from many others, IMO. Now with him, injuries are a whole different story....

Quote:
Originally Posted by DrMoses
I agree, Don Sweeney was a heck of aplayer when he was in Boston. Personally, I've never seen better.


Actually, I was referring to Ian Moran.

Trottier is offline  
Old
02-25-2005, 09:15 PM
  #16
David
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,007
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benton Fraser
The point would still stand though that Yzerman wasn't as good as Gretzky, Messier, Hawerchuk, and Savard at the time then.....
I wouldd argue that Yzerman was better than Hawerchuk and Savard even at that time...

David is offline  
Old
02-26-2005, 11:21 PM
  #17
jiggs 10
Registered User
 
jiggs 10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Hockeytown, ND
Country: United States
Posts: 3,541
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by revolverjgw
Bryan, not Guy or Joel.


Trots has 6 cups to Stevie Y's 3
Should I wait for Stevie Y to sit on the bench and win 2 more Cups like Trots did to call him great? Trottier didn't even play in the 2 Pittsburgh Cup years (well, he played one shift a game), but he gets a lot of credit. If there had been a season this year, the WIngs would most likely have won the Cup, and Steve Yzerman would have a 4th Cup.

I, for one, think they are 2 of the greatest centers to ever play the game. Yzerman was the better offensive player, and the better defensive player. Trottier was the better "all-around" center for a few years, but not anymore. Yzerman was much better on face-offs, and blocking shots, and LEADING a team. But by HIS own admittion, it was because of his idol Bryan Trottier. I think they are very similar players, except Yzerman lasted longer at a higher level than Trottier.

jiggs 10 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:46 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2016 All Rights Reserved.