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Grant Fuhr vs Andy Moog

View Poll Results: Who was truly the better of the two?
Grant Fuhr 39 92.86%
Andy Moog 3 7.14%
Voters: 42. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
12-30-2012, 08:59 AM
  #1
tjcurrie
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Grant Fuhr vs Andy Moog

Fuhr was the man for the Oilers for the most part, but was he truly the better goalie? Does Moog having a bit more success post Oilers than Fuhr mean anything?

My opinion is that they were dang close, but Fuhr when given the chance took the reigns. And Moog played on better squads post Oilers than Fuhr, hence better numbers/success.

I should have maybe added a "Too close to call" option in the poll.


Last edited by tjcurrie: 12-30-2012 at 02:03 PM.
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Old
12-30-2012, 09:15 AM
  #2
Big Phil
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Fuhr was the better goalie. This isn't to downgrade Moog at all who was a very good goalie in his own right and wasn't always nailed down to the bench in the postseason like we remember. He had some ice time, although it was still mostly Fuhr.

Throw in the things like Vezina voting and the results clearly favour Fuhr when they were playing together. Moog was never picked for a Team Canada either. He did have some success in Boston and it is because he really was a good goalie his whole career, but Fuhr definitely peaked higher.

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12-30-2012, 12:45 PM
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leeaf83
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Fuhr is kind of in the same mold of Curtis Joseph or Patrick Roy... moreso Roy. While not overly strong statistically, those guys were the type you had to see to appreciate.

Fuhr won his share of 6-5 games earlier in his career during the offensive era. The difference is that like Roy, if you put Fuhr in a situation where he could not afford to give up a goal, he usually didnt. Gretzky did say if he could take any goalie in his prime in a game 7 it would be Fuhr. So if you use that as your barometer;

game 7 and you can take either goalie in your prime, who do you take? Not knocking Moog who had a very fine career but if in a situation where you simply can not afford to lose, very few people would take Fuhr over Moog.

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Old
12-30-2012, 12:55 PM
  #4
VanIslander
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In his early days I was a Fuhr skeptic, thinking Moog a bit better, but the clutch play of Fuhr was impressive and I soon was won over. He would let in some soft goals early then stone a flurry of rushes late in games. Ovechkin reminded me of him: he gets up when the game gets bigger, late in games.

Fuhr really impressed the hell out of me (showing his HHOF worth) when in his 15th season he went to St. Louis and played nearly every game for a couple of years, a workhorse and a dang good one too. The Dead Puck Era suited him.


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12-30-2012, 01:57 PM
  #5
shazariahl
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
In his early days I was a Fuhr skeptic, thinking Moog a bit better, but the clutch play of Fuhr was impressive and I soon was won over. He would let in some soft goals early then stone a flurry of rushes late in games. Ovechkin reminded me of him: he gets up when the game gets bigger, late in games.

Fuhr really impressed the hell out of me (showing his HHOF worth) when in his 15th season he went to St. Louis and played nearly every game for a couple of years, a workhorse and a dang good one too. The Dead Puck Era suited him.

I agree. I always felt Moog was more consistant in that he gave up less weak goals, but Fuhr had the greater capacity to steal games. And as you mentioned, Moog actually split regular season duties fifty fifty some years and got some play time in playoffs but Fuhr was usually the guy.

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12-30-2012, 02:00 PM
  #6
Psycho Papa Joe
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Grant Fuhr with a rare shutout ( ie poll results do far )

The guy was one of the best money goalies I've seen and IMO the best goalie in the world for about 5 or 6 years. Moog was more consistent over his career, but IMO was never as good as Fuhr at his best.

Got to give props to Moog for owning Roy head to head in the early 90's though.


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Old
12-30-2012, 02:05 PM
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Fuhr's personality also fit the Oilers better. I watched both play a lot and while I think Moog is underrated by many, I take Fuhr in this for sure.

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12-30-2012, 04:39 PM
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Moog was a very good goaltender in his own right as has been mentioned already.

He was more consistently good throughout his career than Fuhr I'd even say.

However, Fuhr was widely considered the best goaltender in the game in the mid to late 80s roughly. Hard to see it in the statistics but it was true.

Fuhr did a lot of damage to his career longevity imo with his substance abuse. Injuries also played a big part in that as well (not his fault obviously).

Like VanI said Fuhr finally conquered those problems and was doing well in St. Louis in a different era when his knee got blown out again. I think he showed enough that he wins this poll.

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Old
12-30-2012, 04:49 PM
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LeBlondeDemon10
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People forget that it was Moog who stoned the Habs in 81. Despite that Fuhr had flair and the ability to make a big save when the Oilers forgot to come back across their own blueline. He just had the aura of a big game goalie. You never lost confidence in him and, like was said about Roy in another thread, he inspired confidence in his teammates.

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12-30-2012, 04:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanIslander View Post
Fuhr really impressed the hell out of me (showing his HHOF worth) when in his 15th season he went to St. Louis and played nearly every game for a couple of years, a workhorse and a dang good one too. The Dead Puck Era suited him.
I disagree. I think he was suited for the high flying 80's where goalies were completely left out to dry. He could do it during those days. Though it seems he did re-adjust his game during his Buffalo-Los Angeles stint. Somewhat ironic actually, Dominik Hasek came and stole his job playing extremely unorthodox and so it seemed Fuhr clamped down on his technique making him less likely to rely on the desperation save.

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12-30-2012, 06:08 PM
  #11
Preisst
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This is a really close one for me. Some great points made in the thread about how Fuhr did seem to come through in the clutch and I remember when he was our main goalie in the 87 Canada Cup that I had confidence in him.

But I always thought Moog was the better goalie.

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Old
12-31-2012, 12:53 AM
  #12
pdd
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Fuhr played against better teams when they were a tandem and they both played in the playoffs at different times. It's almost the identical situation to Osgood/Vernon, except the latter tandem didn't last as long for a number of reasons: the age gap was far greater (Vernon was exiting his prime, while the other three were all entering/in their primes); Osgood's skill gap over Vernon was significantly greater than Fuhr's over Moog; despite this variance in skill gap, Moog was still considered a top goaltender, while Vernon was not.

Consider that a Prime Moog was able to return an excellent prospect goaltender (Ranford) who ended up winning a Conn Smythe and carrying the team to the Cup (despite other playoff failings I won't go into).

A post-prime Vernon cost Detroit All-Star defenseman Steve Chiasson, but this was at a time when Nicklas Lidstrom and Vladimir Konstantinov were breaking into their own and Osgood had just played his rookie season and was not established as a 400-win, highly probably HHOFer. In September 1991, Fuhr was effectively traded with Glenn Anderson for Vincent Damphousse, Peter Ing, and Luke Richardson (Berube for Thornton also in that deal). He was then traded midseason by Toronto to a Buffalo team that thought they needed goaltending. They had (eventually) traded for fresh-off-his-rookie-year Hasek in the summer - Fuhr went to Buffalo for Andreychuk, Puppa, and the pick that became Kenny Jonsson. It's at this point where Fuhr and Osgood have one of many startling similarities. Fuhr's presence as Hasek's backup was not needed, and in fact, not wanted. He was traded again just over two years later, having only played 64 regular season and 8 playoff games as a Sabre in parts of three seasons. His trade value had spiraled downward so quickly that the effective trade was again two trades:
1) Philippe Boucher for Alexei Zhitnik
2) Grant Fuhr and Denis Tsygurov for Robb Stauber, Charlie Huddy, and LA's 5th (Marian Menhart) in 1995.

The sudden decline from "Toronto is getting fleeced" when you see Andreychuk's name come up as the primary piece to "Robb Stauber, ok" is just mind-boggling.

Like the idea that in 1996 Chris Osgood was a Vezina finalist and Jennings winner, in 1998 he was a Cup winning starter and Smythe contender, throughout the back half of the 90s he was a Vezina contender, and in the summer of 2001 no NHL team was willing to trade even a draft pick for him. It's one of those "WTF" moments in hockey. And tying back to 1996, Grant Fuhr - many felt he should have been a finalist, and he ultimately finished 6th in both All-Star and Vezina voting; two and one places ahead of Hasek, respectively.

EDIT: I was a Moog supporter for a long time. But as a Wings fan, I've always had a thing about tandems/platoons and trying to determine who is truly the "best" ever since watching guys like Stefan, Hanlon, etc. face the firing squad in the 80s. It's why I can't believe Bowman let Essensa in net in the 1994 playoffs, and why I was stunned when the Wings reacquired Ty Conklin. And watching older games with a keener eye with regards to goaltending specifically (I myself am not one) allowed me to make better judgements on who was or was not the better keeper. Taking advantage of the research of others has also helped me, although I use the retroactive findings/opinions of others sparingly where possible.


Last edited by pdd: 12-31-2012 at 01:07 AM.
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12-31-2012, 03:42 AM
  #13
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well, I lived in Edmonton in the 80's and this is my observation.

both are good netminders, but Fehr could walk on water somedays and his saves could make you speachless. Moog is like Chris Osgood, he was part of the cast.. Fehr would be like Mick Jager or Bono some nights in net

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12-31-2012, 12:05 PM
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pdd
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Originally Posted by jumptheshark View Post
well, I lived in Edmonton in the 80's and this is my observation.

both are good netminders, but Fehr could walk on water somedays and his saves could make you speachless. Moog is like Chris Osgood, he was part of the cast.. Fehr would be like Mick Jager or Bono some nights in net
Although it's not the discussion, I think Osgood was more like Fuhr with that "extra level" than the steady Vernon/Moog level.





I realize that Youtube isn't a great way of showing a player's skill. But the fact that I was able to find a bunch of great plays by Chris Osgood, a player who was a) not flashy, and b) played much of his career behind a tight system, plus c) the videos span his whole career provide a solid suggestion of a high skill level.

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12-31-2012, 12:15 PM
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Fuhr was the better goalie. He played and beat higher scoring teams. His clutch play-not to mention his glove- could border on unbelievable at times. Moog, as some have mentioned, was part of the cast. He was a very good goalie who was part of the whole. Interestingly both had very rapid declines.

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12-31-2012, 12:38 PM
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pdd
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Originally Posted by cursednumber6 View Post
Fuhr was the better goalie. He played and beat higher scoring teams. His clutch play-not to mention his glove- could border on unbelievable at times. Moog, as some have mentioned, was part of the cast. He was a very good goalie who was part of the whole. Interestingly both had very rapid declines.
I think Moog is being sold short here. He was elite or bordered on elite. When he played for Boston he carried them to the finals in 1990 and almost carried them to the finals again the next year. He was a Vezina finalist both years (third both times) and third in AS voting both years. He could be argued as having been the best goaltender, RS and playoffs combined, over that two-season span. One of many players who doesn't get credit among "the crappy players Bourque had to deal with", along with Neely, Oates, Wesley, Sweeney, Janney, Juneau, etc.

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12-31-2012, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by eva unit zero View Post
I think Moog is being sold short here. He was elite or bordered on elite. When he played for Boston he carried them to the finals in 1990 and almost carried them to the finals again the next year. He was a Vezina finalist both years (third both times) and third in AS voting both years. He could be argued as having been the best goaltender, RS and playoffs combined, over that two-season span. One of many players who doesn't get credit among "the crappy players Bourque had to deal with", along with Neely, Oates, Wesley, Sweeney, Janney, Juneau, etc.
He was very good. I wonder if the Oilers don't swap Moog for Ranford if the 1990 finals even has Boston in it. I bet the Oilers get there with Moog.

The Oilers truly had a blessing of riches. For like a whole decade or so they had two elite goalies... two consistently good goalies. The 1980's had some great goalies but not very much consistency. Both Moog and Fuhr were consistently good there entire platooning career. Moog was the playoff goalie early on and then Fuhr was.

Fuhr was the better goalie though. But how many goalies of that era were consistently very good... every season... for like 15 years? Very, very, very short list. Moog was a well above average goalie his entire career. He is 14th all-time in wins with 372 despite playing much of his career when goalies platooned 50/50 in net.

It is stunning to believe that the Oilers got Messier, Kurri, Anderson, Moog, Fuhr, Lowe, Coffey... all in the draft within a few years. And had Gretzky from the WHA. It was a big deal in the 1980's to have a good back up goalie... no one played more then like 50 games. To get Moog and Fuhr is sick!

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12-31-2012, 02:29 PM
  #18
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Fuhr is the clear winner here. That said Moog is better than these poll results would indicate.

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12-31-2012, 04:08 PM
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This reminds me of how in the late seventies I thought Gilles Gilbert was actually a better playoff goalie than Gerry Cheevers (though I liked having both of them on my beloved Bruins).

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