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Should Burke be given one extra year to redeem himself?

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01-03-2013, 09:45 PM
  #451
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
My prediction was that if Burke got a real number 1 center last season, then Bozak would have been playing on the Marlies.

But because our GM is terrible at his job, we'll never know.
Wanna try again? The words 'outright released' were involved.

What was your prediction for Kessel Mr Realist?

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01-03-2013, 09:54 PM
  #452
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
Wanna try again? The words 'outright released' were involved.

What was your prediction for Kessel Mr Realist?

If Burke got an actual center, Bozak would be gone. I still believe that. I repeatedly call Bozak an ahl player. Because that's what he is.

In regards to Kessel? I thought without a number 1 C he'd have a mediocre year. But he had a great year. As a realist, I can absolutely admit that I was wrong. It's the kind of thing I LOVE being wrong about.

I guess your definition of "realist" means being able to correctly predict the future. Do you know what the word even means?

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01-03-2013, 09:58 PM
  #453
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
So wait, teams can change their strategies? Are you sure about that?
Well we're talking about 2 entirely different GM's.

Doesn't take a genius to figure out that maybe Edmonton's new GM altered the old GM' failing strategy.

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01-03-2013, 10:05 PM
  #454
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
If Burke got an actual center, Bozak would be gone. I still believe that. I repeatedly call Bozak an ahl player. Because that's what he is.

In regards to Kessel? I thought without a number 1 C he'd have a mediocre year. But he had a great year. As a realist, I can absolutely admit that I was wrong. It's the kind of thing I LOVE being wrong about.

I guess your definition of "realist" means being able to correctly predict the future. Do you know what the word even means?
No, my definition of realist means realistically judging teams and players based on past performance, history, trends, stats etc, not simply trashing everything blue and white and hoping that occasionally something sticks. The fact is, you were wrong about Kessel, and this is the first I've seen you admit it. You were wrong (very wrong) about Bozak and still can't man up. You go up and down others like you're some kinda expert, like you're never wrong.... You're just like all these people you talk down to, just on the other sign of the coin.

I'm sure I've got an infraction coming my way, but Whatevs, sometimes it's worth it.

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01-03-2013, 10:06 PM
  #455
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
Well we're talking about 2 entirely different GM's.

Doesn't take a genius to figure out that maybe Edmonton's new GM altered the old GM' failing strategy.
So teams can change approaches, Gms can't, Amirite? Just wanna understand the rules and how they apply.

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01-04-2013, 11:35 AM
  #456
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Originally Posted by CrazeeEddie View Post
So wait, teams can change their strategies? Are you sure about that?
Yes. I'm quite positive. Teams wouldn't go very far if they don't adapt to the various situations that spring up.

If you want an example of how not to strategize, use Brian Burke's tenure in Toronto as an example of someone who cannot assess a team and parlay that into a logical strategy

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01-04-2013, 03:08 PM
  #457
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Originally Posted by CellarDweller0 View Post
Realist is subjective and completely based on perception. I believe myself to be more the realist than the current so called "realists" because I think Burke has done a pretty good job given what was handed to him and to be clear that would be an aging team of veterans and empty cupboards in the minors. Today he has arguably a team that is not better in the standings (yet) but a team with a much brighter future that will surpass the success of the old team.

I can play the "realist" game too.
There's not a GM in the NHL who would continually finish in the bottom of the standings and not have at least what Burke does for the future.

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01-04-2013, 05:06 PM
  #458
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Yes. I'm quite positive. Teams wouldn't go very far if they don't adapt to the various situations that spring up.

If you want an example of how not to strategize, use Brian Burke's tenure in Toronto as an example of someone who cannot assess a team and parlay that into a logical strategy
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
There's not a GM in the NHL who would continually finish in the bottom of the standings and not have at least what Burke does for the future.
Yes and Yes

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01-04-2013, 07:24 PM
  #459
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Originally Posted by charliolemieux View Post
I didn't count the SO goals at all.

And once again you twist the meaning.

I know Khabby was lights out for EDM early on. At one point his sv% was above .970%

And 20 goals over 13 games is an incredible rate. One they did not continue.
to the bolded.

And by your own argument, even if you take out that 13-game stretch, Edmonton still gave up fewer goals per game over their worst 69 games.

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01-04-2013, 09:20 PM
  #460
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Were a number 1 center and a star goalie away from being a contender. Two of the easiest pieces to acquire. Nothing wrong with the accelerated rebuild here.

It's not like Burke signed Bozak, the Monster with the intentions of those two players filling those voids allowing him to deal two firsts for Kessel.

He knew that by continually being hyperbolic in a sensationalist media hub would temper expectations.

He knew fans would wear bags on their heads in year 4 of his rebuild, shower the ACC with boos, demand the head of his coach and later his own.

Goalie coach quitting? Please, saw that coming a mile away.

He knew.

Don't think he didn't.

It's all coming full-circle at an "accelerated" pace.

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01-04-2013, 09:24 PM
  #461
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Originally Posted by thecatch22 View Post
Were a number 1 center and a star goalie away from being a contender. Two of the easiest pieces to acquire. Nothing wrong with the accelerated rebuild here.

It's not like Burke signed Bozak, the Monster with the intentions of those two players filling those voids allowing him to deal two firsts for Kessel.

He knew that by continually being hyperbolic in a sensationalist media hub would temper expectations.

He knew fans would wear bags on their heads in year 4 of his rebuild, shower the ACC with boos, demand the head of his coach and later his own.

Goalie coach quitting? Please, saw that coming a mile away.

He knew.

Don't think he didn't.

It's all coming full-circle at an "accelerated" pace.
I am pretty sure Gary Bettman planted Brian Burke in Toronto as a sleeper agent GM to intentionally sabotage the team and keep them out of the playoffs so his American teams can have the chances at the Cup.

There's no way anyone could be this bad of a GM, even by accident.

It's all a sick conspiracy.

It simply has to be.

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01-04-2013, 09:37 PM
  #462
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Originally Posted by habsfanatics View Post
There's not a GM in the NHL who would continually finish in the bottom of the standings and not have at least what Burke does for the future.
Actually, have you met Howson? Or maybe, Calgary's GM?

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01-04-2013, 10:00 PM
  #463
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You are what your record says you are.

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01-04-2013, 10:09 PM
  #464
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Originally Posted by Epictetus View Post
You are what your record says you are.
So Burke is a Stanley cup winning GM, and to the people that will say the core was built for him already, then we should say he is a SC final building GM?

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01-05-2013, 06:35 AM
  #465
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You are what your record says you are.
...unless you're the Oilers.

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01-05-2013, 08:52 AM
  #466
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Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
...unless you're the Oilers.
How true. I would also argue any teams near the Leafs in the standings. Apparently the Islanders have this amazing team going forward despite never getting better with years of high picks and the NHL's worst owner.

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01-05-2013, 08:52 AM
  #467
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
So Burke is a Stanley cup winning GM, and to the people that will say the core was built for him already, then we should say he is a SC final building GM?
Those people are fools. That argument has been destroyed.

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01-05-2013, 08:56 AM
  #468
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Originally Posted by Disgruntled Observer View Post
My prediction was that if Burke got a real number 1 center last season, then Bozak would have been playing on the Marlies.

But because our GM is terrible at his job, we'll never know.
Oh and getting a first line centre is so easy...

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01-05-2013, 09:16 AM
  #469
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
I am pretty sure Gary Bettman planted Brian Burke in Toronto as a sleeper agent GM to intentionally sabotage the team and keep them out of the playoffs so his American teams can have the chances at the Cup.

There's no way anyone could be this bad of a GM, even by accident.

It's all a sick conspiracy.

It simply has to be.
Sadly, Burke has been bad enough for you to consider his tenure to be a conspiracy. My take on Burke is he's a much better salesman than he is a NHL GM. Moreover is that he talks the talk, but can't walk the walk, when your record's worst the JFJ's you know you don't deserve a contract extension. If Burke could keep his mouth shut on hockey matters, and had no say in hockey decisions, he'd be OK to keep around for community service PR, that he's good at.

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01-05-2013, 09:50 AM
  #470
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Sadly, Burke has been bad enough for you to consider his tenure to be a conspiracy. My take on Burke is he's a much better salesman than he is a NHL GM. Moreover is that he talks the talk, but can't walk the walk, when your record's worst the JFJ's you know you don't deserve a contract extension. If Burke could keep his mouth shut on hockey matters, and had no say in hockey decisions, he'd be OK to keep around for community service PR, that he's good at.

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01-05-2013, 09:52 AM
  #471
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Uh, who cares what he did with Anaheim?

He's been absolutely abysmal with his current team.

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01-05-2013, 10:05 AM
  #472
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John Ferguson Jr.

100-86-27 (.533 points percentage)




Brian Burke

136-144-48 (.488 points percentage)


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01-05-2013, 10:07 AM
  #473
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Those stats mean nothing. Ferguson took over a much better team.

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01-05-2013, 10:07 AM
  #474
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Originally Posted by Leaffan16 View Post
So Burke is a Stanley cup winning GM, and to the people that will say the core was built for him already, then we should say he is a SC final building GM?
What does Burke's tenure with Anaheim have to do with his current tenure with the Leafs?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Volcanologist View Post
...unless you're the Oilers.
The Oilers are worse than the Leafs, because their record says that they are. This follows from my above quote, namely, "you are what your record says you are." What's so complicated here?

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
How true. I would also argue any teams near the Leafs in the standings. Apparently the Islanders have this amazing team going forward despite never getting better with years of high picks and the NHL's worst owner.
Who has the better future is a different question than what defines you. I'm not seeing how the former question, namely, who has the better future is relevant here.

The Leafs, along with the Oilers and Islanders, are very bad teams. Why? Because they are defined as such based on their record.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Oh and getting a first line centre is so easy...
Apparently it is.

theCatch22 says:

Quote:
Were a number 1 center and a star goalie away from being a contender. Two of the easiest pieces to acquire. Nothing wrong with the accelerated rebuild here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Those stats mean nothing. Ferguson took over a much better team.
They mean quite a lot. They define Burke's tenure here.

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01-05-2013, 10:12 AM
  #475
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Maple Leafs GM Brian Burke expects team to be in playoffs next season

Quote:
Originally Posted by RogerRoeper View Post
Those stats mean nothing. Ferguson took over a much better team.
And five years later, even worse than when he took over and worse than any team since the 80's.

Quote:
TORONTO - Brian Burke has something in common with fans of the Toronto Maple Leafs - he's growing impatient waiting for the team to end its long playoff drought.

During Wednesday's end-of-season address, the Leafs general manager reiterated that he's not keen on waiting long for the 29th-place team to become a contender. In fact, he expects it to happen next year.

"I'm not interested ... in a five-year rebuild like some of these teams have done," said Burke. "Maybe because of my age, maybe just because I know it doesn't have to be five years because it wasn't in Anaheim.

"I like the group that finished the year, I think just on internal improvement we will be better. I think we will be good enough with this group and a couple additions to say in training camp that the playoffs are a reasonable goal."
Seems like you are an expert on Anaheim, so maybe you can explain why it didn't take five years there but it's taking longer here to even make it to JFJ's level of excellence.

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