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01-01-2013, 04:17 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Don't know if you have noticed but he has lost a significant role again. They changed coaches and he is really struggling for ice-time once again.
Regardless, in the game's I've seen, he's acquitted himself well. He's a player playing against talented professionals.
He's not playing in the SEL or OHL or Q.

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01-01-2013, 04:20 PM
  #27
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A fairly significant role to me would mean he plays more then 11 minutes a game, especially for a dman. He just got done sitting out the entire third period of a game didnt he?
He's 20 years old playing in a league that has teams that could probably beat some of the lesser teams in the NHL.
He's a good skater. He's a good passer. He has NHL size and is very strong. And he can play physical

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01-01-2013, 04:25 PM
  #28
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Why dont you like him anymore? Hes one of the best skating prospects on the wings, can throw big hits and has put up solid numbers in the NCAA. Isnt he top 5 for defensive scoring in the NCAA this season?

He was never a really high end prospect but for a 5th rounder he looks like he could still be an NHLer
While on the subject of Jensen, I feel like he's probably the hardest guy to rank in our system. But I look forward to see him with the Griffins(already at the end of this season?). Marchenko is a close second to rank. Injuries, high quality surroundings but lack of trust. Looking forward to see him come over aswell. Both are welcome to rocket up my rankings.

I was also a little iffy on Pulkkinen, but he's turned a corner this season now and if he finishes strong I see no reason why he can't be a prominent player on the Griffins next year. I still feel he's got something to give in this organization.

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01-01-2013, 05:51 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Regardless, in the game's I've seen, he's acquitted himself well. He's a player playing against talented professionals.
He's not playing in the SEL or OHL or Q.
The lockout certainly changes some of this discussion but I think you're vastly overrating the KHL if you're going to take shots at the SEL in more normal years. The KHL is still a rather large step behind the NHL for me and not much of an upgrade over the AHL or SEL when I watch the talent level in normal years. Certainly much closer to being those leagues than bridging the gap to the NHL. Of course that is just my opinion as well.

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01-01-2013, 06:22 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
The lockout certainly changes some of this discussion but I think you're vastly overrating the KHL if you're going to take shots at the SEL in more normal years.
Don't imagine "taking shots" when none are being taken.
I am talking about this year... the year Marchenko is playing.

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01-01-2013, 06:30 PM
  #31
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prospect

with smith and nyquist out ..

1-CALLE JANKROK:future top six forward same mold of zetterberg and datsyuk
2-XAVIER OUELLET: future top two defense great at the wjc
3-TOMAS TATAR :future top six forward very good offensive instincts
4-PETR MRAZEK : future number one but howard is still young
5-LANDON FERRARO:future second or third line he his healthy
6-RILEY SHEAHAN :future second line power forward
7-TEEMU PULKKINEN :future top six he`s a goal scorer
8-TOMAS JURCO :future second or third line
9-RYAN SPROUL :future offensive defenseman
10-MARTIN FRK :future third line forward
11-ADAM ALMQVIST ffensive defenseman
12-JAKE PATERSON : maybe a good back up for mrazek in the future
13-MATTIAS BACKMAN :future third pairings defense
14-JOAKIM ANDERSSON :future fourth line center
15-MAREK TVRDON: power forward if he is healthy
16-MIKE MCKEE :physical defenseman
17-ANDREAS ATHANASIOU :???
18-ALEXEI MARCHENKO : two way defense if he is coming
19-NICK JENSEN : six or seven defense
20-LOUIS MARC AUBRY : big fourth line player

whats wrong with THOMAS MCCOLLUM what is his future with the wings

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01-02-2013, 10:14 AM
  #32
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Originally Posted by djdan6215 View Post
whats wrong with THOMAS MCCOLLUM what is his future with the wings
He's shown significant improvement lately, still got ways to go before I personally consider him a legit NHL prospect(and make my top20). He's still young for a goaltender, but if he eventually makes it, it'll probably not be in in the Wings' organization.

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01-02-2013, 11:48 AM
  #33
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He's 20 years old playing in a league that has teams that could probably beat some of the lesser teams in the NHL.
He's a good skater. He's a good passer. He has NHL size and is very strong. And he can play physical
You over rate the KHL. KHL teams don't have the depth to compete with NHL teams. I'll be interested to see how an AHL team will do in the Spengler Cup next year if they can work that out.

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01-02-2013, 12:07 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by TS Quint View Post
You over rate the KHL. KHL teams don't have the depth to compete with NHL teams. I'll be interested to see how an AHL team will do in the Spengler Cup next year if they can work that out.
The talent differences within the KHL are also quite large. Just look at the standings and compare the rosters, it's huge. I'm sure those bottom teams would have a tough time even with average Elitserien/Sm-liiga teams.

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01-02-2013, 12:47 PM
  #35
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1. Calle Jarnkrok
2. Tomas Tatar
3. Petr Mrazek
4. Xavier Ouellet
5. Mattias Backman
6. Ryan Sproul
7. Tomas Jurco
8. Landon Ferraro
9. Riley Sheahan
10. Nick Jensen
11. Adam Almqvist
12. Andreas Athanasiou
13. Joakim Andersson
14. Teemu Pulkkinen
15. Jake Paterson
16. Martin Frk
17. Louis-Marc Aubry
18. Alexei Marchenko
19. Alan Quine
20. Marek Tvrdon

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01-02-2013, 01:00 PM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
1. Xavier Ouellet
2. Tomas Tatar
3. Calle Jarnkrok
4. Alexei Marchenko
5. Petr Mrazek
6. Ryan Sproul
7. Tomas Jurco
8. Riley Sheahan
9. Landon Ferraro
10. Tomas McCollum
11. Andreas Athanasiou
12. Mattias Backman
13. Teemu Pulkkinen
14. Martin Frk
15. Adam Almqvist
16. Joakim Andersson
17. Nick Jensen
18. Marek Tverdon
19. Jake Paterson
20. Brian Lashoff
I'm not sure I'd put him that high, but I can understand the Marchenko spot. He needs to get somewhere that he'll play, though. Sitting on the bench all of the time is doing him no favors.

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01-02-2013, 01:21 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Winger98 View Post
I'm not sure I'd put him that high, but I can understand the Marchenko spot. He needs to get somewhere that he'll play, though. Sitting on the bench all of the time is doing him no favors.
Absolutely.
But I Marchenko playing 10 minutes a night with Datsyuk and Radulov and Grabovski as a 20 year old is better for him than playing 20 minutes a night with a bunch of teenagers in Ontario or Quebec.

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01-02-2013, 01:53 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Absolutely.
But I Marchenko playing 10 minutes a night with Datsyuk and Radulov and Grabovski as a 20 year old is better for him than playing 20 minutes a night with a bunch of teenagers in Ontario or Quebec.
Maybe, but that's assuming his 10 minutes are coming with/against top players and not bottom6ers. Either way, I figure it's a wash this year and that next season is going to be important for the kid. What's a shame is that, if not for the strike, this would have been a great year for Marchenko to be in GR. A lot of minutes, get used to the culture, and get in before XO, Sproul, and maybe Jensen & Backstrom make the jump.

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01-02-2013, 03:26 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Absolutely.
But I Marchenko playing 10 minutes a night with Datsyuk and Radulov and Grabovski as a 20 year old is better for him than playing 20 minutes a night with a bunch of teenagers in Ontario or Quebec.
The CHL has a better record of producing Dmen than Russia. His team has 3 NHLers and a bunch of nobody's. I don't know for sure but odds are he only shares a dressing room with those 3 forwards if he is only playing 10 minutes a night. Young players need to play. European players need to learn to play on NHL sized ice. After watching a couple KHL games (yawn) I never knew how different it was especially for a Dman. Even the mentality of how to be a pro is different over there. I think it was Trechiak in The Hockey News who said the best thing about NHL players going to the KHL this year is they would show Russians the effort and commitment it takes to be a top player.

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01-02-2013, 04:45 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by TS Quint View Post
The CHL has a better record of producing Dmen than Russia. His team has 3 NHLers and a bunch of nobody's. I don't know for sure but odds are he only shares a dressing room with those 3 forwards if he is only playing 10 minutes a night. Young players need to play. European players need to learn to play on NHL sized ice. After watching a couple KHL games (yawn) I never knew how different it was especially for a Dman. Even the mentality of how to be a pro is different over there. I think it was Trechiak in The Hockey News who said the best thing about NHL players going to the KHL this year is they would show Russians the effort and commitment it takes to be a top player.
You think it was Trechiak?

Look, I don't care if Canada produces MORE defenseman.
The point is that Marchenko is playing minutes against men, not boys.

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01-02-2013, 06:03 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
You think it was Trechiak?

Look, I don't care if Canada produces MORE defenseman.
The point is that Marchenko is playing minutes against men, not boys.
And playing against men in the KHL has helped few Dmen become NHL players.

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01-02-2013, 06:44 PM
  #42
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And playing against men in the KHL has helped few Dmen become NHL players.
Ridiculous. The KHL hasn't been around long enough to have a track record.

If you want to write someone off because they're playing in the KHL, go ahead. It's foolish if you ask me -- especially given that right now, it's unquestionably the best active league in the world

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01-02-2013, 09:20 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
1. Xavier Ouellet
2. Tomas Tatar
3. Calle Jarnkrok
4. Alexei Marchenko
5. Petr Mrazek
6. Ryan Sproul
7. Tomas Jurco
8. Riley Sheahan
9. Landon Ferraro
10. Tomas McCollum
11. Andreas Athanasiou
12. Mattias Backman
13. Teemu Pulkkinen
14. Martin Frk
15. Adam Almqvist
16. Joakim Andersson
17. Nick Jensen
18. Marek Tverdon
19. Jake Paterson
20. Brian Lashoff
4 is a bit ridiculous, even for you. There is no reason he should he be ahead of Ryan Sproul. I'd even push for swapping Backman and Marchenko in your rankings based on how this year has gone.

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01-02-2013, 09:37 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Captain Bob View Post
Ridiculous. The KHL hasn't been around long enough to have a track record.

If you want to write someone off because they're playing in the KHL, go ahead. It's foolish if you ask me -- especially given that right now, it's unquestionably the best active league in the world
5 years now you can catch the Dmen who are 20 when the league started and they are now 25. Not much yet. seems like plenty of time. The problem for most prospects is the Jr. league is crap over there and the KHL is too good. The other problem is the game is completely different especially for a defensemen. IF he wants to play in the NHL he should get over to The AHL as soon as he can.

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01-02-2013, 09:48 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by Frk It View Post
4 is a bit ridiculous, even for you.
I'm pretty sure that's flaming.

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There is no reason he should he be ahead of Ryan Sproul. I'd even push for swapping Backman and Marchenko in your rankings based on how this year has gone.
Push for it all you want. The talent level in the SEL is not very good compared to the KHL and even Swiss league this year.

And don't even compare the OHL to KHL.

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01-02-2013, 09:56 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by TS Quint View Post
5 years now you can catch the Dmen who are 20 when the league started and they are now 25. Not much yet. seems like plenty of time. The problem for most prospects is the Jr. league is crap over there and the KHL is too good. The other problem is the game is completely different especially for a defensemen. IF he wants to play in the NHL he should get over to The AHL as soon as he can.
Really?
How many games does Smith have under his belt at the age of 24? And he's our best prospect

How many NHL games did Kronwall have at the age of 25? And he's our #1 defenseman.

How about Ericsson at 25? And he's supposed to be our #2 defenseman.

I also think that the difference between our prospects isn't really much. I think we have lots of really solid prospects, but not a single "star caliber" guy among them --- at this point.

Finally, regarding Marchenko, when he was drafted, it was indicated he was willing to come to North America. Hopefully that's true. But the problem we face now is that the AHL is going to be jam packed with defensemen next year.

Ouellet. Sproul. Almqvist. Nicastro. Maybe Lashoff. Maybe Fournier. Maybe Jensen.

In my opinion, Backman and Marchenko may be better off in Europe for at least another year.

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01-02-2013, 10:22 PM
  #47
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Marchenko and Tvrdon are down the list because of injury concerns and other reasons. When you watch them play they are top 10 talent wise. I have no problem with CB believing Marchenko is that high up, he has some terrific upside. We all view these guys differently, clearly the KHL means a lot to him. With Smith off this list it is fair to argue he has the most talent of our D-man. I don't really agree with that per se but it isn't outlandish. He does have Ouellet above him anyway. Sproul has injury concerns, Backman has limited offensive upside and Jensen is pretty old and in the NCAA. The case can be made for Marchenko if you really believe in what you have seen out of him.

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01-03-2013, 04:14 AM
  #48
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Originally Posted by RedWings19405 View Post
Marchenko and Tvrdon are down the list because of injury concerns and other reasons. When you watch them play they are top 10 talent wise. I have no problem with CB believing Marchenko is that high up, he has some terrific upside. We all view these guys differently, clearly the KHL means a lot to him. With Smith off this list it is fair to argue he has the most talent of our D-man. I don't really agree with that per se but it isn't outlandish. He does have Ouellet above him anyway. Sproul has injury concerns, Backman has limited offensive upside and Jensen is pretty old and in the NCAA. The case can be made for Marchenko if you really believe in what you have seen out of him.
Weren't both of them freak injuries? Or have there been more/ am I missing something here?

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01-03-2013, 04:32 AM
  #49
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Weren't both of them freak injuries? Or have there been more/ am I missing something here?
Sproul had broken jaw and broken hand. As long as nothing happens to his knees, hips, groins, ankles or shoulders, everthing is fine.

I was pretty scary about that hand injury, that he would lose some shooting ability. He has been only better scorer since that, and seems to make full-powered slapshots.

***

Tvrdon blood cot is really serious, that could end his career, or he could be just fine. One year of development is already lost. That really hurts his chances.

Marchenko has had those injuries in critical areas (knee and shoulder). I take them very seriously, he could be the next Andrei Markov in later career. I keep his organizational value quite low, because there's also that "staying in KHL" -risk still in pretty high in him, even though he has very high interest to come in North America. If he breaks through, that's a great bonus, his potential is high, if he ever reaches it.


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01-03-2013, 07:14 AM
  #50
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[QUOTE=Captain Bob;57035143]I'm pretty sure that's flaming.

Didn't intend to flame, you contribute a lot to the board. What I meant when I said "even for you" was more directed at the fact that you lobby for Marchenko more than anyone else. Not your overall opinions.

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