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NHL Lockout Discussion XXXVII: It's a death trap. It's a suicide trap.

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Old
12-31-2012, 10:29 AM
  #251
RangerBoy
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The NHL and PA picked NYE in NY to hold their first meeting in nearly four weeks? The NHL office is a block away from Times Square. Its not in the heart of Times Square but there's enough craziness around that area which makes it a mad house.

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12-31-2012, 10:29 AM
  #252
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From: @JSportsnet
Sent: Dec 31, 2012 11:24a

As @garylawless first reported,if deal came quickly in NHL-PA process,don't rule out 52 game schedule starting Jan 12.Doubtful,but possible.

sent via web
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/JSportsnet/status/285783568930721792

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12-31-2012, 10:31 AM
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Owners say the 60M high cap is a "reality". Have they looked at the team's payrolls lately?
Have the NHLPA seen how much revenue has/is slashed lately. The teams are getting means in which to be within that next season.

You can't run off of revenues you don't have and expect to lose.

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12-31-2012, 10:34 AM
  #254
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https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/sta...84776433078273

CBA mtng expected to begin between 1pm - 1:30pm. Players will present counter to NHL.

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12-31-2012, 10:35 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
The NHL and PA picked NYE in NY to hold their first meeting in nearly four weeks? The NHL office is a block away from Times Square. Its not in the heart of Times Square but there's enough craziness around that area which makes it a mad house.
I was thinking the same thing. Hopefully they can't get out and spend all night meeting.

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12-31-2012, 10:37 AM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Lundsanity30 View Post
Owners say the 60M high cap is a "reality". Have they looked at the team's payrolls lately?
It is a reality....once they go to a 50-50 split.

Players want an artificially high cap in 2013 so it doesn't affect FAs. But they want a cap on escrow so they aren't paying 20% in escrow. Which in turn means that don't want 50-50...again.

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12-31-2012, 10:37 AM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinkfan77 View Post
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/sta...84776433078273

CBA mtng expected to begin between 1pm - 1:30pm. Players will present counter to NHL.
Let me guess how it'll play out:

- Players present counter
- NHL walks out after 5 minutes
- Fans assume counter offer was ridiculous, blame players
- More ****ing and moaning for the next week
- NHL presents new offer
- Repeat process

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Old
12-31-2012, 10:38 AM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
From: @JSportsnet
Sent: Dec 31, 2012 11:24a

As @garylawless first reported,if deal came quickly in NHL-PA process,don't rule out 52 game schedule starting Jan 12.Doubtful,but possible.

sent via web
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/JSportsnet/status/285783568930721792
Again, why would they launch opposite the NFL Divisional Playoffs? They have games scheduled at 4:30 and 8 with one starring Peyton Manning. No chance of drawing one casual fan back against the NFL playoffs. Can they even pick a friggin date right?

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12-31-2012, 10:39 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Why do the players keep saying they want what's best for the future then propose short term cba deals?! Their words and actions do not match up one bit.
What? They proposed 8 years with an opt out after 6. If the NHLPA offers 9 years with an opt out after 7. That's a short term CBA? How long was the 2005 CBA. 7 years. The NHL decided to terminate it after 7. The NBA deal has an opt out after 6 years. Gary really wants 10 years with an 8 opt out? He better be careful. The 2005 CBA ended up a deal he couldn't wait get out of. Big market teams push up the upper limit and those small market teams will have the same issues.

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12-31-2012, 10:39 AM
  #260
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Yeah that's why the NHL walks out, its not the PA still presenting the same 56% share in every proposal.

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12-31-2012, 10:41 AM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
From: @JSportsnet
Sent: Dec 31, 2012 11:24a

As @garylawless first reported,if deal came quickly in NHL-PA process,don't rule out 52 game schedule starting Jan 12.Doubtful,but possible.

sent via web
On Twitter: http://twitter.com/JSportsnet/status/285783568930721792
I think it's a good tactic by the League basically trying to prevent Fehr from more 11th hr stalling.

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12-31-2012, 10:41 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by PatriceBergeronrules View Post
Again, why would they launch opposite the NFL Divisional Playoffs? They have games scheduled at 4:30 and 8 with one starring Peyton Manning. No chance of drawing one casual fan back against the NFL playoffs. Can they even pick a friggin date right?
They probably feel it's more important to get the game back on the ice and start the season than to worry about going against the NFL.

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12-31-2012, 10:44 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by RangerBoy View Post
What? They proposed 8 years with an opt out after 6. If the NHLPA offers 9 years with an opt out after 7. That's a short term CBA? How long was the 2005 CBA. 7 years. The NHL decided to terminate it after 7. The NBA deal has an opt out after 6 years. Gary really wants 10 years with an 8 opt out? He better be careful. The 2005 CBA ended up a deal he couldn't wait get out of. Big market teams push up the upper limit and those small market teams will have the same issues.
The reason the league asked for an opt out no earlier than the 8th year is to balance out the transition of paying out the make whole. That's money coming out of the owner's pocket which essentially prolongs the actual split to 50/50. If the owners are going to be paying additional money for four years which puts them at less than 50% share for that duration, they want to ensure that they have at least an equal amount of years to gain the benefits of the intended 50/50 split.

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12-31-2012, 10:44 AM
  #264
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Luckily cities like Pittsburgh who are out of the playoffs, will be itching to pick up the next sport. There is no hockey right now during a time when it should be picking up. Starting ASAP isn't a bad idea.

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12-31-2012, 10:45 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by JAX View Post
I think it's a good tactic by the League basically trying to prevent Fehr from more 11th hr stalling.
Well, presenting the NHLPA with this offer when they did is kind of forcing his hand as well. The NHLPA has until the 2nd to file the DOI. This is keeping them busy and the deadline may pass and the NHLPA loses the threat of disclaiming interest.

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12-31-2012, 10:47 AM
  #266
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Originally Posted by PatriceBergeronrules View Post
Again, why would they launch opposite the NFL Divisional Playoffs? They have games scheduled at 4:30 and 8 with one starring Peyton Manning. No chance of drawing one casual fan back against the NFL playoffs. Can they even pick a friggin date right?


If they try to dodge the NFL playoffs, this season will never get started...they should be thankful anyone wants to watch them after ANOTHER lockout.

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12-31-2012, 10:48 AM
  #267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PatriceBergeronrules View Post
Again, why would they launch opposite the NFL Divisional Playoffs? They have games scheduled at 4:30 and 8 with one starring Peyton Manning. No chance of drawing one casual fan back against the NFL playoffs. Can they even pick a friggin date right?
They can't really worry about that at this point, they just gotta start getting games played. To late to worry about what's on the other channel.

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12-31-2012, 10:49 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by Shoalzie View Post
If they try to dodge the NFL playoffs, this season will never get started...they should be thankful anyone wants to watch them after ANOTHER lockout.
just wait to see how many people no longer want to watch anymore ever again if they lose this season as well..

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12-31-2012, 10:51 AM
  #269
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Well, presenting the NHLPA with this offer when they did is kind of forcing his hand as well. The NHLPA has until the 2nd to file the DOI. This is keeping them busy and the deadline may pass and the NHLPA loses the threat of disclaiming interest.
None of that will phase Fehr, he will stall if there is a tornado going through the room.
but I would sure like to see what's in the players proposal....I'm sure there is a good amount of B.S. contained in it.

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12-31-2012, 10:52 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by Plague View Post
When the NHLPA submits their counter-offer, which could very well-be a re-worded former proposal, the NHL better not pull everything off the table and storm away again. I have been on the owners side the whole time with the PA unwillingness to negotiate. The league has stormed away once already, leading to four weeks of relative silence. If they do that again, it will show an unwillingess to negotiate from the owners side as well. These tactics should not be a surprise to the league, especially with leaked quotes that show the union wants to "...see how badly the NHL wants a season".
I'm of the opposite opinion. If the league's proposal truly had no deal breaker provisions for either side, and the PA comes back with the same old offer, then I want the league to cease talks and cancel the season. Enough is enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by isles31 View Post
minor details, my friend...minor details. Next youre gonna complain that the players didnt want to negotiate during the entire year leading up to the offseason when the league asked...but were willing to play under the old CBA and negotiate this season? pssh
I know, I know. I'm just unreasonable that way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Blueline Bomber View Post
Let me guess how it'll play out:
- Players present counter
- NHL walks out after 5 minutes
- Fans assume counter offer was ridiculous, blame players
- More ****ing and moaning for the next week
- NHL presents new offer
- Repeat process
Well, it would probably be fair to assume the counter was ridiculous since the league's offer is reported to have no deal breaker provisions. If the league walks out it means the PA took a proposal that was probably the closest so far to being acceptable to both sides and turned it into something unacceptable. IMO, that would be a ridiculous thing to do at this stage.

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12-31-2012, 10:56 AM
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blinkfan77 View Post
https://twitter.com/DarrenDreger/sta...84776433078273

CBA mtng expected to begin between 1pm - 1:30pm. Players will present counter to NHL.
I predict a redux of the last offer.

- Details get leaked, seem very positive
- optimism grows, chatter about how soon we can drop puck
- Fehr presser with Campoli et al behind him telling us about how great the deal is
- Leaks of the cleverly crafted and camouflaged poison pills
- Fuse lit

IMO. Hope I am wrong

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Old
12-31-2012, 10:57 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by Rubber Biscuit View Post
They probably feel it's more important to get the game back on the ice and start the season than to worry about going against the NFL.
Having games in Canada and some US markets are one thing, but I could picture them doing something stupid like having the Avs or Bruins play at home when their football team is. I understand they want to roll on a weekend to have more sellouts but still.

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12-31-2012, 10:58 AM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
Well, it would probably be fair to assume the counter was ridiculous since the league's offer is reported to have no deal breaker provisions. If the league walks out it means the PA took a proposal that was probably the closest so far to being acceptable to both sides and turned it into something unacceptable. IMO, that would be a ridiculous thing to do at this stage.
If the league walks out, it means they find the PA's proposal to be unacceptable. That says nothing about the PA's proposal other than the NHL didn't like it. And frankly, that could just be because it's not the exact proposal that the NHL presented.

There has to be some back and forth between the two sides, especially at this stage of the game. "My way or the highway" died a while ago. And yet, neither side really seems to understand that.

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Old
12-31-2012, 10:58 AM
  #274
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If the PA can't come up with something substantially different this time, they might as well cancel the damn thing. I'm sick of this stalling and negotiation tactics so just get it done or cancel it now!

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Old
12-31-2012, 11:01 AM
  #275
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Good, NHL is giving them incentive to not to dick around. Hopefully Fehr doesn't spin this into telling the players that this means the NHL is desperate.
It wouldn't shock me if that's what it is though. Bettman's last attempt at leverage before the owners cave. Even they know they can't nuke another season, with the uncertainty of court ahead with all the damage already done to the product.


Last edited by NJDevs26: 12-31-2012 at 11:09 AM.
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