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Official Bears Thread #14 - Historic collapse complete, Lovie fired

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Old
12-31-2012, 03:38 PM
  #476
coldsteelonice84
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Yeah, a lot of the Bears are not exactly who we thought they were. They are spoiled brats. Honest to God, the only one making any sense out of this is Cutler, and he takes the most flak.

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12-31-2012, 03:42 PM
  #477
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12-31-2012, 03:42 PM
  #478
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Yeah, a lot of the Bears are not exactly who we thought they were. They are spoiled brats. Honest to God, the only one making any sense out of this is Cutler, and he takes the most flak.
I don't get it at all... Unless he has said something I haven't read, I'd put Tillman in Cutler's company as well. While he can be whacky at times, Tillman normally is pretty intelligent in regards to what he does and doesn't say with a mic in his face.

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12-31-2012, 03:42 PM
  #479
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Originally Posted by coldsteelonice84 View Post
Yeah, a lot of the Bears are not exactly who we thought they were. They are spoiled brats. Honest to God, the only one making any sense out of this is Cutler, and he takes the most flak.
Haven't seen a quote by him today - but a week ago while Urlacher was blasting the fans - Brandon Marshall was stand up about them not doing good enough.

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12-31-2012, 03:43 PM
  #480
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Marshall, too. He played out of his mind almost all year long in an ultimately wasted effort. Him being pissed was the way that everyone in that locker room should've been talking, not like Urlacher saying that fans' opinions don't matter (we pay you, ******) or Hester crying crocodile tears over his coach getting canned (play like a halfway competent receiver and maybe Lovie would still have a job).

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12-31-2012, 03:44 PM
  #481
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Well thats not true.
offense is still a mess and the defense is 9 years older. And thanks to all the horrid hires, our team will be learning it's 3rd offense in 4 years.

Urlacher is done, briggs, peppers and tillman don't have much longer. Rest of the defense is basically a wash.

There's years of drafting to make up for(and don't kid yourself, head coach has plenty of input on that front, wasn't all on angelo).

We need LT, RT, G, TE, and arguably a center. Along with replacing urlacher and finding suitable replacements(or at least fill ins) for tillman and briggs so we aren't caught with our pants down like we were every time urlacher went down. Another pass rusher and receiver wouldn't kill us either. And this is all assuming you still believe in our soon to be 30 yr old qb. Personally, I don't. Whether he would be looking much better right now if he didn't just wade through a river of **** for the last 4 seasons is up for debate, but as far as I'm concerned, what potential there was for cutler was ruined by lovie and the bears.

Best case scenario IMO is to hire an offensive minded guy like Kyle Shannahan and if Cutler doesn't show improvement, let him walk and completely start over.

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12-31-2012, 03:45 PM
  #482
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Cutler basically said he was sorry he and the team let Lovie down but Emery knows what he is doing and change is sometimes a necessary thing to move forward. The only other people I have heard talking about the firing are coming off like little spoiled brats.

And yes, Marshall and Tillman have always seen things for what they are and have been pros about it, agreed.

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12-31-2012, 03:49 PM
  #483
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
offense is still a mess and the defense is 9 years older. And thanks to all the horrid hires, our team will be learning it's 3rd offense in 4 years.

Urlacher is done, briggs, peppers and tillman don't have much longer. Rest of the defense is basically a wash.

There's years of drafting to make up for(and don't kid yourself, head coach has plenty of input on that front, wasn't all on angelo).

We need LT, RT, G, TE, and arguably a center. Along with replacing urlacher and finding suitable replacements(or at least fill ins) for tillman and briggs so we aren't caught with our pants down like we were every time urlacher went down. Another pass rusher and receiver wouldn't kill us either. And this is all assuming you still believe in our soon to be 30 yr old qb. Personally, I don't. Whether he would be looking much better right now if he didn't just wade through a river of **** for the last 4 seasons is up for debate, but as far as I'm concerned, what potential there was for cutler was ruined by lovie and the bears.

Best case scenario IMO is to hire an offensive minded guy like Kyle Shannahan and if Cutler doesn't show improvement, let him walk and completely start over.
The Bears had won 1 playoff game in 13 years before Lovie showed up and had 2 double digit win seasons. They had 4 double digit wins seasons in 9 years under Lovie, would have had 5 if Cutler didn't go down last year. The Bears aren't a juggernaut now, but they are a hell of a lot better than they were during the mid 90's and early 2000's under Wanny and Jauron.

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12-31-2012, 03:58 PM
  #484
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Doubt you'll find many who aren't grateful for what Lovie has done here. It's time to clean house and move on.

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12-31-2012, 03:58 PM
  #485
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Originally Posted by Illinihockey View Post
The Bears had won 1 playoff game in 13 years before Lovie showed up and had 2 double digit win seasons. They had 4 double digit wins seasons in 9 years under Lovie, would have had 5 if Cutler didn't go down last year. The Bears aren't a juggernaut now, but they are a hell of a lot better than they were during the mid 90's and early 2000's under Wanny and Jauron.
Do the bears have a better looking future right now than they did in 04-05? Nope. Team has been stagnant at best since lovie got here, and past failures shouldn't be used to judge the success of the present. The present should be evaluated against contemporary times and on that front lovie was an abject failure. In a league moving more and more towards offense, lovie flippantly ignored that side of the ball and continued to turn the responsibility over to his incompetent friends. He was trying to build a team to compete in 1995 and arguably doing a poor job of that judging by the fact the 3 of the 4 best players(i'm still counting urlacher) on his defense were inherited and a single one of the top players on either side of the ball was drafted while he was here, forte. Though you could certainly argue melton over urlacher at this point.

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12-31-2012, 04:02 PM
  #486
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Originally Posted by madgoat33 View Post
Do the bears have a better looking future right now than they did in 04-05? Nope. Team has been stagnant at best since lovie got here, and past failures shouldn't be used to judge the success of the present. The present should be evaluated against contemporary times and on that front lovie was an abject failure. In a league moving more and more towards offense, lovie flippantly ignored that side of the ball and continued to turn the responsibility over to his incompetent friends. He was trying to build a team to compete in 1995 and arguably doing a poor job of that judging by the fact the 3 of the 4 best players on his defense were inherited and not single one of the top 5 players on either side of the ball was drafted while he was here, forte. Though you could certainly argue melton over urlacher at this point.
Except Lovie didn't get here in 04-05. He got here a year before that. I'll bet the Bears do a hell of a lot better than 5-11 next season as they did the year Lovie was hired.

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12-31-2012, 04:02 PM
  #487
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Now hopefully, Emery take the best player availible instead of drafting for need.

If Jake Matthews falls......

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12-31-2012, 04:03 PM
  #488
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12-31-2012, 04:10 PM
  #489
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Except Lovie didn't get here in 04-05. He got here a year before that. I'll bet the Bears do a hell of a lot better than 5-11 next season as they did the year Lovie was hired.
again, the bears had a future when lovie arrived. They were also 7-9 the year before he got here, so maybe he actually made them worse

But really, the bears had a good(or at least potentially good) defense with pro-bowl caliber players in their prime. Just because jauron failed doesn't make lovie any better. He was what he was. A good defensive coach who was bad at hiring assistants, either didn't know or didn't care about offense and questionable at evaluating players. If some dumpster fire team like the chiefs want a guy to take them from joke to decent, lovie would be a fine hire. But if a team wants to win a super bowl, they'd probably be best served looking elsewhere.

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12-31-2012, 04:16 PM
  #490
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again, the bears had a future when lovie arrived. They were also 7-9 the year before he got here, so maybe he actually made them worse

But really, the bears had a good(or at least potentially good) defense with pro-bowl caliber players in their prime. Just because jauron failed doesn't make lovie any better. He was what he was. A good defensive coach who was bad at hiring assistants, either didn't know or didn't care about offense and questionable at evaluating players. If some dumpster fire team like the chiefs want a guy to take them from joke to decent, lovie would be a fine hire. But if a team wants to win a super bowl, they'd probably be best served looking elsewhere.
The Bears had 5 pro-bowl players this year. All 5 of them will be on the team next year. All of them have at least 3 years left in the league. Briggs, Tillman, Alex Brown, Vasher, Tommie Harris....none of those guys were pro-bowl players in their prime when Lovie took over. They had Urlacher and Mike Brown when Lovie took over. He made a lot of those guys stars.

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12-31-2012, 04:22 PM
  #491
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The Bears had 5 pro-bowl players this year. All 5 of them will be on the team next year. All of them have at least 3 years left in the league. Briggs, Tillman, Alex Brown, Vasher, Tommie Harris....none of those guys were pro-bowl players in their prime when Lovie took over. They had Urlacher and Mike Brown when Lovie took over. He made a lot of those guys stars.
Those guys were already good players(said pro bowl caliber, not pro-bowl), if lovie had the ability to "make" anyone, ONE of his MANY defensive draft pick would be a star right now. I guess you could argue for melton, but 1 good year and an arguable spot in the pro bowl isn't enough to crown him yet.

and I don't think tillman, briggs(I'm aware he didn't go this year, but he's still pro-bowl caliber) or peppers have 3 top level years left in the NFL. I also don't think Jennings will come close to repeating this season.

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12-31-2012, 04:33 PM
  #492
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Those guys were already good players(said pro bowl caliber, not pro-bowl), if lovie had the ability to "make" anyone, ONE of his MANY defensive draft pick would be a star right now. I guess you could argue for melton, but 1 good year and an arguable spot in the pro bowl isn't enough to crown him yet.

and I don't think tillman, briggs or peppers have 3 top level years left in the NFL. I also don't think Jennings will come close to repeating this season.

Tommie Harris and Nathan Vasher were in Lovie's first draft class and went to the pro-bowl. Tim Jennings was an also ran that is going to the pro-bowl now, Henry Melton was a mid-round pick and is a pro-bowl player. Chris Harris, Mark Anderson and Daniel Manning have also had great careers. This defense which was a top defense all season has tons of players on it that were drafted during Lovie's regime. Conte, Wright, Melton, Wooten, McClellin, Paea all under 26 and drafted during Lovie. The problem is the offensive side of the ball.

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12-31-2012, 04:40 PM
  #493
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Tommie Harris and Nathan Vasher were in Lovie's first draft class and went to the pro-bowl. Tim Jennings was an also ran that is going to the pro-bowl now, Henry Melton was a mid-round pick and is a pro-bowl player. Chris Harris, Mark Anderson and Daniel Manning have also had great careers. This defense which was a top defense all season has tons of players on it that were drafted during Lovie's regime. Conte, Wright, Melton, Wooten, McClellin, Paea all under 26 and drafted during Lovie. The problem is the offensive side of the ball.
McClellin showed very little, Wootoen is far from a star, but has potential, melton looks good, Conte and Wright are just two guys on a defense. Danieal Manning had to go to another team to become a good player, same with anderson and chris harris(and I'm not sure you can call either of those two careers "great").

1 year doesn't make a player, its VERY possible jennings never comes close to repeating this season.

And I agree the offense is the real problem and the exact reason lovie has to go. Not only has he shown 0 initiative or ability for the offense, but the people he hires to do it for him are terrible.
My point about the defense is simply that its currently relying on 3 guys on the downslope of their careers, and there's really no way to be certain when they will be done. Have to start preparing for it now so we don't have to piss away a season(or more) when they need to be replaced.

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12-31-2012, 04:45 PM
  #494
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McClellin showed very little, Wootoen is far from a star, but has potential, melton looks good, Conte and Wright are just two guys on a defense. Danieal Manning had to go to another team to become a good player, same with anderson and chris harris(and I'm not sure you can call either of those two careers "great").

1 year doesn't make a player, its VERY possible jennings never comes close to repeating this season.

And I agree the offense is the real problem and the exact reason lovie has to go. Not only has he shown 0 initiative or ability for the offense, but the people he hires to do it for him are terrible.
My point about the defense is simply that its currently relying on 3 guys on the downslope of their careers, and there's really no way to be certain when they will be done. Have to start preparing for it now so we don't have to piss away a season(or more) when they need to be replaced.
All of those players (McClellin, Wooten, Melton, Conte, Wright) had achieved as much as all of those pro-bowl caliber players the Bears had when Lovie took over. You are looking back in hindsight and touting some of those guys. Alex Brown had 5 sacks before Lovie took over, Lance Briggs had 80 tackles the year before Lovie took over. Lovie has a proven track record as a defensive coach. He didn't just luck into a situation where the Bears were awesome on defense.

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12-31-2012, 04:47 PM
  #495
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The D as we knew it will not have the same amount of resources tied in it and it is god damned refreshing.

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12-31-2012, 04:56 PM
  #496
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All of those players (McClellin, Wooten, Melton, Conte, Wright) had achieved as much as all of those pro-bowl caliber players the Bears had when Lovie took over. You are looking back in hindsight and touting some of those guys. Alex Brown had 5 sacks before Lovie took over, Lance Briggs had 80 tackles the year before Lovie took over. Lovie has a proven track record as a defensive coach. He didn't just luck into a situation where the Bears were awesome on defense.
The potential and pieces were there(briggs was a rookie year before lovie got there). Are they any more(my point is that I don't think they are)? Is there another urlacher on the roster right now? How about young guys capable of coming in and playing to the level that tillman or briggs has? I don't see them. We've drafted a TON of safeties and still, the only thing we have to show for it now are two guys who aren't garbage. We've also burned through corners except for tillman, and blown through a bunch of strong side linebackers. So isn't it entirely possible that they guys that were here for lovie were just more talented then the players they've drafted/brought in since?

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12-31-2012, 05:15 PM
  #497
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Absolutely, he managed his hall of famers well.

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12-31-2012, 05:50 PM
  #498
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i think bears are in for big changes now. usually a new GM will want to shake things up anyways.

i see Urlacher gone and hestrer if he doesn't retire cut, i see the front line weakness being addressed finally in some manner.

I think the total lack of any offense with what we have which is actually a decent group is just ridiculous how long has Hester been a bad receiver how long has the o line been bad but the head coach says were not addressing it we are fine.

He may be a great defensive coach but he seems to completely neglect the offense.

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12-31-2012, 06:10 PM
  #499
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The potential and pieces were there(briggs was a rookie year before lovie got there). Are they any more(my point is that I don't think they are)? Is there another urlacher on the roster right now? How about young guys capable of coming in and playing to the level that tillman or briggs has? I don't see them. We've drafted a TON of safeties and still, the only thing we have to show for it now are two guys who aren't garbage. We've also burned through corners except for tillman, and blown through a bunch of strong side linebackers. So isn't it entirely possible that they guys that were here for lovie were just more talented then the players they've drafted/brought in since?
I don't know if there are any Briggs or Tillmans. When Lovie took over he didn't know he had any Briggs or Tillmans on the roster. That's the point. Mcclellin could become an all pro, Melton could continue to grow and be a 5 time pro-bowler. We don't have an Urlacher but we have a Brandon Marshall.

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12-31-2012, 07:26 PM
  #500
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Lovie was not a bad coach, his time had come. Don't expect the replacement to be more accomplished. We know what to expect from this ownership group. I don't see them paying any of the big names.

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