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How much effect does Randy Carlyle have on a UFA signing with Toronto?

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Old
12-30-2012, 07:55 PM
  #1
MapleLeafsFan4Ever
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How much effect does Randy Carlyle have on a UFA signing with Toronto?

I'm sure we all remember the talk that when Ron Wilson was the Maple Leafs Head Coach some people he said the reason why some of the top UFA's didn't want to sign in Toronto. Plus I believe he was voted the most hated Head Coach in that player poll, so that didn't help. Now assuming that on July 1, 2013 both Corey Perry and Ryan Getzlaf become UFA's would they want to sign in Toronto or not because of Randy Carlyle? Prior to him getting fired in Anaheim I heard reports that the Ducks players starting to no longer listen to him and etc, although I'm sure their record at the time didn't help and was the main reason why he was let go. So I'm wondering if Perry and Getzlaf don't choose Toronto how much of the blame would Carlyle get since it's easy to look back at his time with them in Anaheim?

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12-30-2012, 08:05 PM
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better we trade for them then.

however, how often do you hear stuff like that - players not liking coaches, but then it gets denied when the trade rumors gets going and everyone's the best of buds

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12-30-2012, 08:05 PM
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Couldnt be worse than Wilson.

All i know.

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12-30-2012, 08:06 PM
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I'd like to see a province/state breakdown on the taxes the players from each teams are paying from their salaries. I wonder if this is another reason we have tough times landing the high profile players? I don't really know and I'm just curious if that has any affect on who we sign.

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12-30-2012, 08:09 PM
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Originally Posted by JVR or Bust View Post
I'd like to see a province/state breakdown on the taxes the players from each teams are paying from their salaries. I wonder if this is another reason we have tough times landing the high profile players? I don't really know and I'm just curious if that has any affect on who we sign.
It is. Very well known fact.

Jose Reyes is paying like $8 million more in taxes for his contract to be payed out in Toronto versus Miami.

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12-30-2012, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by JVR or Bust View Post
I'd like to see a province/state breakdown on the taxes the players from each teams are paying from their salaries. I wonder if this is another reason we have tough times landing the high profile players? I don't really know and I'm just curious if that has any affect on who we sign.

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12-30-2012, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by JVR or Bust View Post
I'd like to see a province/state breakdown on the taxes the players from each teams are paying from their salaries. I wonder if this is another reason we have tough times landing the high profile players? I don't really know and I'm just curious if that has any affect on who we sign.
I really think it's a minor thing, more of a conspiracy theory made by some people IMO. EDIT: that chart proves my point further, how many huge free agents have signed or want to play for Pheonix, Tampa, Florida, Calgary, Edmonton etc.? New York Rangers just got brad richards, they're near the bottom.

Alot of people seem to forget that we got Cujo, Belfour, Mogilney, Roberts etc. when we were good, numerous college players over the years and numerous smaller players these past couple years.

you start winning and make the playoffs, you will start getting the stars. It's that simple.

I'm sure numerous teams in the states could offer better tax benefits, but alot of free agents just dont want to sign in the US(some do of course).

Plus you have to factor in that there are maybe 1-2 big free agents a year, so it's not like they're gonna be huge Toronto fans every time.

Anyway in response to OP, It may help, both Burke and Carlyle were in Anaheim, so if Perry, Getzlaf or whoever actually liked playing for those guys, they may want to come to us even more.

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12-30-2012, 08:28 PM
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Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
I really think it's a minor thing, more of a conspiracy theory made by some people IMO.

Alot of people seem to forget that we got Cujo, Belfour, Mogilney, Roberts etc. when we were good, numerous college players over the years and numerous smaller players these past couple years.

you start winning and make the playoffs, you will start getting the stars. It's that simple.

I'm sure numerous teams in the states could offer better tax benefits, but alot of free agents just dont want to sign in the US(some do of course).

Plus you have to factor in that there are maybe 1-2 big free agents a year, so it's not like they're gonna be huge Toronto fans every time.
A conspiracy theory?

Obviously there are other factors to go into making a choice of where to play but if you can save yourself hundreds of thousands of dollars (a Lamborghini , or a couple Tim Hortons franchises when you retire) why wouldn't you want that?

You underestimate how self interested people really are.

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12-30-2012, 08:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
A conspiracy theory?

Obviously there are other factors to go into making a choice of where to play but if you can save yourself hundreds of thousands of dollars (a Lamborghini , or a couple Tim Hortons franchises when you retire) why wouldn't you want that?

You underestimate how self interested people really are.
I get the idea of it, but the vast majority of big free agents have gone against this theory. I'm saying it's a conspiracy for those who think this is the main reason big names dont come to us.

They go where they can win, and have a good lifestyle or even live closer to their families(Mcclement in our case took a pay cut) not where they can save an extra few hundred thousand. Probably because they already make huge money.

I agree for mid-level guys and veterans it probably makes a big difference though.

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12-30-2012, 08:43 PM
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Originally Posted by rdawg1234 View Post
Anyway in response to OP, It may help, both Burke and Carlyle were in Anaheim, so if Perry, Getzlaf or whoever actually liked playing for those guys, they may want to come to us even more.
What would be great to know if Perry and Getzlaf were two of the players that were reported who no longer listened to Carlyle before he was fired.

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12-30-2012, 09:25 PM
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From what I've read from Ducks fans Getzlaf might have some negative feelings towards Carlyle, while Perry does not.

In the long run I think replacing Wilson with Carlyle makes Toronto a slightly more appealing destination. But, if Getzlaf really does have beef with Carlyle, he may be the reason we miss out on that big #1 center we've been looking for.

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12-30-2012, 09:53 PM
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Little to none IMO:

Lets face it, the leafs have had a terrible track record when it's come to UFA, come to think of it in the past 15-20 years I can't recall any big name ticket coming to town. I think it has to do with the intense media market in the sense a lot of players don't want to be in the uberhot spotlight 24/7 basically every move they make is overanalyzed by the media.

Coaching has nothing to do with IMO, it doesn't matter whether it's Carlyle or Wilson or Quinn behind the bench the bottom line is we just don't attract any big names to Toronto.

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12-30-2012, 10:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
Little to none IMO:

Lets face it, the leafs have had a terrible track record when it's come to UFA, come to think of it in the past 15-20 years I can't recall any big name ticket coming to town. I think it has to do with the intense media market in the sense a lot of players don't want to be in the uberhot spotlight 24/7 basically every move they make is overanalyzed by the media.

Coaching has nothing to do with IMO, it doesn't matter whether it's Carlyle or Wilson or Quinn behind the bench the bottom line is we just don't attract any big names to Toronto.
So you don't call players like Curtis Joseph, Ed Belfour, Alexander Mogilny big name players who signed as UFA's in Toronto.

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12-30-2012, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
Little to none IMO:

Lets face it, the leafs have had a terrible track record when it's come to UFA, come to think of it in the past 15-20 years I can't recall any big name ticket coming to town. I think it has to do with the intense media market in the sense a lot of players don't want to be in the uberhot spotlight 24/7 basically every move they make is overanalyzed by the media.

Coaching has nothing to do with IMO, it doesn't matter whether it's Carlyle or Wilson or Quinn behind the bench the bottom line is we just don't attract any big names to Toronto.
Well to be fair Toronto has in the past attracted Big Names they were just on the downslope of their career. I mean to name a few.

Nowlen
Leetch
Allison
Mogilny
Newie
Peca
Lindros
Belfour



Funny thing about all these players though it was during an era where we could outspend ANYONE. Which leads me to believe our biggest problem is that we can't out pay our flaws anymore.

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12-30-2012, 10:04 PM
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I'm not sure head coaches play a lot into free agents signing anywhere.

Do you think that Zach Parise and Suter was excited to go and play for Yeo in Minny? Suter turned down a chance to play for Babcock in Detroit. I think its more about living situations and money.

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12-30-2012, 10:05 PM
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Getzlaf and Perry won a Cup under Carlyle's coaching. The season before last they made playoffs under the same coach. When a team stops responding to a coach who they've had success with it, is it really fair to assume that the problem is the coach?

Carlyle being able to help attract players to Toronto will depend on how successful the Leafs are and how successful the system is. The only problem is that the players we currently have may not be the kind of players Carlyle needs to make his system work as effectively as possible. In that case, we're probably going to have to rely on draft, prospects and trades to find the right personnel to prove that his system works before other players start looking at Toronto as a UFA destination due to the coaching in place.

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12-30-2012, 10:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Mystifo View Post
Well to be fair Toronto has in the past attracted Big Names they were just on the downslope of their career. I mean to name a few.

Nowlen
Leetch
Allison
Mogilny
Newie
Peca
Lindros
Belfour



Funny thing about all these players though it was during an era where we could outspend ANYONE. Which leads me to believe our biggest problem is that we can't out pay our flaws anymore.
Nolan and Leetch were trades, where the Leafs payed a handsome return.

Peca, Allison and Lindros were all post-lockout. They all signed cheap deals because they wanted to play in Toronto.

Mogilny, Belfour and Nieuwendyk all help make your case, though. You could add Thomas, Cujo, Roberts and Corson.

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12-30-2012, 10:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Getzlaf and Perry won a Cup under Carlyle's coaching. The season before last they made playoffs under the same coach. When a team stops responding to a coach who they've had success with it, is it really fair to assume that the problem is the coach?

Carlyle being able to help attract players to Toronto will depend on how successful the Leafs are and how successful the system is. The only problem is that the players we currently have may not be the kind of players Carlyle needs to make his system work as effectively as possible. In that case, we're probably going to have to rely on draft, prospects and trades to find the right personnel to prove that his system works before other players start looking at Toronto as a UFA destination due to the coaching in place.
They did have their biggest success with him and the GM. The fact
that he is still #2 in playoffs wins, should entice others...but we have to get there.

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12-31-2012, 12:34 AM
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Originally Posted by vinnybaby View Post
From what I've read from Ducks fans Getzlaf might have some negative feelings towards Carlyle, while Perry does not.

In the long run I think replacing Wilson with Carlyle makes Toronto a slightly more appealing destination. But, if Getzlaf really does have beef with Carlyle, he may be the reason we miss out on that big #1 center we've been looking for.
I think Brian Burke will be the reason. This guy doesn't have the cojones ($$) to get 'er done.

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12-31-2012, 01:01 AM
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Originally Posted by Bomber0104 View Post
Couldnt be worse than Wilson.

All i know.
So much truth to this. Never seen a coach throw players under the bus as much as Wilson did in his tenure here. It's one thing to throw the team under the bus, but the way he singled guys out and threw them under the bus was just dumb.

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12-31-2012, 01:44 AM
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So much truth to this. Never seen a coach throw players under the bus as much as Wilson did in his tenure here. It's one thing to throw the team under the bus, but the way he singled guys out and threw them under the bus was just dumb.
I think Carlyle is a guy who will rip you a new ******* in the privacy of the dressing room, but will go to war for you in the media. He reminds me of Pat Quinn in that regard.

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12-31-2012, 02:06 AM
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I think Carlyle is a guy who will rip you a new ******* in the privacy of the dressing room, but will go to war for you in the media. He reminds me of Pat Quinn in that regard.
Agreed. And that's the way it should be. Specially in Toronto.

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12-31-2012, 03:42 AM
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Agreed. And that's the way it should be. Specially in Toronto.
Why must everybody kiss the butts of the trained seals that play in the NHL? Being ripped apart in public by their coach, GM, and the media should be the price they pay for the millions they get.

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12-31-2012, 03:47 AM
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Originally Posted by Kingstonian84 View Post
Little to none IMO:

Lets face it, the leafs have had a terrible track record when it's come to UFA, come to think of it in the past 15-20 years I can't recall any big name ticket coming to town. I think it has to do with the intense media market in the sense a lot of players don't want to be in the uberhot spotlight 24/7 basically every move they make is overanalyzed by the media.

Coaching has nothing to do with IMO, it doesn't matter whether it's Carlyle or Wilson or Quinn behind the bench the bottom line is we just don't attract any big names to Toronto.
Cujo, Mogiliny, Roberts, Belfour, Peca? Although they never played as expected Komi, Armstrong, and Beauchemin were pretty sought after UFA's as well.

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12-31-2012, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by DirtyDion03 View Post
So much truth to this. Never seen a coach throw players under the bus as much as Wilson did in his tenure here. It's one thing to throw the team under the bus, but the way he singled guys out and threw them under the bus was just dumb.
Funny, because I've seen Eakins do the same yet he's praised as a god around here and people say that he's "lighting a fire under their ass" and what not.

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