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Ryan Johansen, development since draft

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12-30-2012, 08:39 PM
  #1
Freudian
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Ryan Johansen, development since draft

I noticed when browsing the AHL site that he has put on 30-40 pounds or so since his draft year and he is putting up good numbers in AHL.

What has the added bulk done to his physical game and skating? Has he changed the way he plays? Anyone who has followed AHL closely have an idea what we can expect in the NHL this year.


Last edited by Freudian: 12-31-2012 at 07:50 AM.
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12-30-2012, 08:46 PM
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lockout is the best thing that coulda happened for him

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12-30-2012, 08:49 PM
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Ludicrous Speed
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I can't say that I can make an assessment on this year, but I really wanted for us to, at the very least, send him to the WJC last year. I don't necessarily think he shouldn't have been in the NHL last year, but we were playing him 10-12 minutes a night on LW. If he's gonna be up with the big club, at least play him at center.

It's a damn good thing the lockout has occurred for him, because while getting a taste of the NHL was a positive, he needs to play big minutes at his natural position. I hope that he stays in the AHL regardless of whether or not the lockout ends. Our NHL club doesn't need the Ryan Johansen that isn't ready for his potential upside; we have enough tweener top sixers. We need him when he's ready to be a go-to guy, and the only way for that to happen is if we let him grow.

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12-30-2012, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ludicrous Speed View Post
I can't say that I can make an assessment on this year, but I really wanted for us to, at the very least, send him to the WJC last year. I don't necessarily think he shouldn't have been in the NHL last year, but we were playing him 10-12 minutes a night on LW. If he's gonna be up with the big club, at least play him at center.

It's a damn good thing the lockout has occurred for him, because while getting a taste of the NHL was a positive, he needs to play big minutes at his natural position. I hope that he stays in the AHL regardless of whether or not the lockout ends. Our NHL club doesn't need the Ryan Johansen that isn't ready for his potential upside; we have enough tweener top sixers. We need him when he's ready to be a go-to guy, and the only way for that to happen is if we let him grow.
While I agree with you it's going to be a while before we see his peak and it might not come as fast as fans would hope for and I agree that staying in the AHL and getting big minutes might be the best thing for him.

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12-30-2012, 09:36 PM
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The Columbus Dispatch had a nice article about Johansen's development:
http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/...justments.html

He's been working on rounding out his game in the AHL, not just scoring, maybe focusing too much on his defensive game and less on trying to dominate offensively.

I know a lot of people say he should have been sent back to juniors last season rather than spending time on the 4th line/press box, but it seems like that has better prepared him for his season. Rather than dominating in the WHL, last season showed how much he needed to do to get ready for the NHL.

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12-30-2012, 10:20 PM
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Originally Posted by JacketsFanWest View Post
The Columbus Dispatch had a nice article about Johansen's development:
http://bluejacketsxtra.dispatch.com/...justments.html

He's been working on rounding out his game in the AHL, not just scoring, maybe focusing too much on his defensive game and less on trying to dominate offensively.

I know a lot of people say he should have been sent back to juniors last season rather than spending time on the 4th line/press box, but it seems like that has better prepared him for his season. Rather than dominating in the WHL, last season showed how much he needed to do to get ready for the NHL.
i'm sorry but Columbus GM Scott Howson is an idiot.

In his own words,

Quote:
“Ryan was a dominant player in the juniors,” Howson said. “I reject the notion that he should have gone back, because he needed to see what the NHL was all about. Now he knows. So in that respect, I think we’re a year ahead in his development than we would have been.”
Really how is playing gout of position and getting scratched for 9 games in the 2nd half before returning to Center and closing out the season on a better note a good thing?

Playing high pressure minutes against great players and a deep playoff run in the WHL would have done a ton more for his development IMO.

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12-30-2012, 10:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
i'm sorry but Columbus GM Scott Howson is an idiot.

In his own words,



Really how is playing gout of position and getting scratched for 9 games in the 2nd half before returning to Center and closing out the season on a better note a good thing?

Playing high pressure minutes against great players and a deep playoff run in the WHL would have done a ton more for his development IMO.
Depends on how you look at it. He now knows where he needs to be in order to excel. I think the lockout is the perfect situation for him because now he doesnt have a choice and isnt just trying to make it to the big club. It better allows him to play relaxed and try to imrpove his game rather than trying to make an impact in a place he is not ready for yet.

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12-30-2012, 10:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
i'm sorry but Columbus GM Scott Howson is an idiot.

In his own words,



Really how is playing gout of position and getting scratched for 9 games in the 2nd half before returning to Center and closing out the season on a better note a good thing?

Playing high pressure minutes against great players and a deep playoff run in the WHL would have done a ton more for his development IMO.
Not to say Howson hasn't made a lot of boneheaded decisions in the past, but another center in the exact same situation as Johansen was during the past lockout was one Eric Staal. Slogged through a 31 point season in the NHL as a freshly drafted player, went to the AHL, scored a PPG average and came out the other end of the lockout as a 100 point player...

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12-30-2012, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
i'm sorry but Columbus GM Scott Howson is an idiot.

In his own words,



Really how is playing gout of position and getting scratched for 9 games in the 2nd half before returning to Center and closing out the season on a better note a good thing?

Playing high pressure minutes against great players and a deep playoff run in the WHL would have done a ton more for his development IMO.
Since 1990-91, the following players have scored fewer than 25 points in their 18- and 19-year-old NHL season.

Stephen Weiss
Scott Hartnell
Shane Doan
Tyler Seguin
Kyle Turris
Justin Williams
Pierre-Marc Bouchard
Petr Nedved
Owen Nolan
Nathan Horton
Joe Thornton
Alexander Semin
Adam Deadmarsh
Jeff Friesen
Ryan Smyth
Dustin Brown
Ryan Kesler
Keith Tkachuk
Pavol Demitra
Adam Graves
Olli Jokinen

Look at all those wasted picks there...forever ruined by having them in the NHL early.

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12-30-2012, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
Playing high pressure minutes against great players and a deep playoff run in the WHL would have done a ton more for his development IMO.
Sure, and playing against a lot of players who will never go pro and learning that he can play at 50%, take shifts off and still lead the WHL in scoring.

Instead, Johansen was humbled by how he wasn't ready for the NHL and how much more work he needed to do.

Physically, he wasn't ready to play every night in the NHL and that would have been a reason to send him back to the WHL. He had a late growth spurt and was more physically immature compared to other guys in his draft class.

In the SEL, 18 and 19 year olds are frequently used as an extra player and end up sitting on the bench and not playing. They do an apprenticeship essentially learning the system and participating in practice. That's something that's been used to develop players very successfully in Sweden.

Johansen wasn't going to be challenged in the WHL, but he was in the NHL. It's a case where there should be an exception to allow elite players to go to the AHL, and I wish the Jackets would have send him down on a "conditioning assignment" like the Kings did with Brayden Schenn. He would have gotten confidence in the WHL, but he wouldn't have been challenged on a daily basis.

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12-30-2012, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Since 1990-91, the following players have scored fewer than 25 points in their 18- and 19-year-old NHL season.

Stephen Weiss
Scott Hartnell
Shane Doan
Tyler Seguin
Kyle Turris
Justin Williams
Pierre-Marc Bouchard
Petr Nedved
Owen Nolan
Nathan Horton
Joe Thornton
Alexander Semin
Adam Deadmarsh
Jeff Friesen
Ryan Smyth
Dustin Brown
Ryan Kesler
Keith Tkachuk
Pavol Demitra
Adam Graves
Olli Jokinen

Look at all those wasted picks there...forever ruined by having them in the NHL early.
Just wondering, but is that a list of everyone who's played in the NHL under 20 years old and scored under 25 points? Or a select group of successful players?

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12-30-2012, 11:35 PM
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Just wondering, but is that a list of everyone who's played in the NHL under 20 years old and scored under 25 points? Or a select group of successful players?
Since 1990-91, there are 93 player seasons that involve 25+ games as an 18- or 19-year-old and fewer than 25 points scored.

36 of them are defensemen, and thus are in a different situation. Several suffered career-ending injuries early on, and aren't really good comps as a result. A few went back to Europe. Some are double-counted (Pierre-Marc Bouchard, for example, played his first two seasons as a teenager).

And others are still active and early in their careers, so they're excluded. If I wanted to include everyone, I could have thrown Jason Spezza in there too.

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12-31-2012, 12:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Since 1990-91, there are 93 player seasons that involve 25+ games as an 18- or 19-year-old and fewer than 25 points scored.

36 of them are defensemen, and thus are in a different situation. Several suffered career-ending injuries early on, and aren't really good comps as a result. A few went back to Europe. Some are double-counted (Pierre-Marc Bouchard, for example, played his first two seasons as a teenager).

And others are still active and early in their careers, so they're excluded. If I wanted to include everyone, I could have thrown Jason Spezza in there too.
Ok, thanks. I'm neutral in the argument and don't really care too much about Johansen, but I found your post interesting. Thank you for clearing that up.

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12-31-2012, 01:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Since 1990-91, there are 93 player seasons that involve 25+ games as an 18- or 19-year-old and fewer than 25 points scored.

36 of them are defensemen, and thus are in a different situation. Several suffered career-ending injuries early on, and aren't really good comps as a result. A few went back to Europe. Some are double-counted (Pierre-Marc Bouchard, for example, played his first two seasons as a teenager).

And others are still active and early in their careers, so they're excluded. If I wanted to include everyone, I could have thrown Jason Spezza in there too.
Not to mention 2 players from Johansen's draft year in Niederreiter and Connolly. Both were also in the NHL last year and I think contributed less than Johansen did.

You can also cite Seguin who was specifically mentioned by Howson a few times as having a similar development route that they wanted Johansen to have.

When drafted in 2010, Howson projected Johansen as being 2 years away from NHL activity. He's supposedly ahead of schedule as last year he was in the NHL as opposed to back in Portland. I really question what more he could possibly learn back there. I think the emphasis and dominance he would have had on the Winterhawks would have fostered more bad habits than good ones (taking shifts off, poor defensive awareness, etc.).

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12-31-2012, 01:11 AM
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Not to mention 2 players from Johansen's draft year in Niederreiter and Connolly. Both were also in the NHL last year and I think contributed less than Johansen did.

You can also cite Seguin who was specifically mentioned by Howson a few times as having a similar development route that they wanted Johansen to have.

When drafted in 2010, Howson projected Johansen as being 2 years away from NHL activity. He's supposedly ahead of schedule as last year he was in the NHL as opposed to back in Portland. I really question what more he could possibly learn back there. I think the emphasis and dominance he would have had on the Winterhawks would have fostered more bad habits than good ones (taking shifts off, poor defensive awareness, etc.).
Not hard to do better then Niederreiter, he had 1 point in 55 games. lol

I have no clue why Niederreiter at least wasn't sent to the World Jrs last season. It should be pointed out Niederreiter now has 30 points in 30 games in the AHL

Quote:
Originally Posted by smitty10 View Post
Just wondering, but is that a list of everyone who's played in the NHL under 20 years old and scored under 25 points? Or a select group of successful players?
Josh Bailey(who was brought up way to early) had 25 points in his rookie season just after getting drafted, and as I pointed out above Nino had 1 at the age of 19.

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12-31-2012, 07:01 AM
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Not hard to do better then Niederreiter, he had 1 point in 55 games. lol

I have no clue why Niederreiter at least wasn't sent to the World Jrs last season. It should be pointed out Niederreiter now has 30 points in 30 games in the AHL



Josh Bailey(who was brought up way to early) had 25 points in his rookie season just after getting drafted, and as I pointed out above Nino had 1 at the age of 19.
Niederreiter has 30 points in 30 games
Connolly has 27 points in 30 games
Johansen has 24 points in 30 games

All were said to have been rushed, but I think they were all in the situation where there would have been limited benefit to another season in juniors.

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12-31-2012, 07:03 AM
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i think Johansen will turn out to be great. He will be a superstar within the next few years

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12-31-2012, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by bassassin View Post
Niederreiter has 30 points in 30 games
Connolly has 27 points in 30 games
Johansen has 24 points in 30 games

All were said to have been rushed, but I think they were all in the situation where there would have been limited benefit to another season in juniors.
As an Islanders fan I still think they should have sent Nino to the world Juniors, they also should have took him off the 4th line(playing less then 10 minutes a game) with like 15-20 games left in the season

It's a shame though for all three guys you listed that you can't send them to the AHL when you are 19 if they are linked to a CHL team

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12-31-2012, 08:33 AM
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Niederreiter has 30 points in 30 games
Connolly has 27 points in 30 games
Johansen has 24 points in 30 games

All were said to have been rushed, but I think they were all in the situation where there would have been limited benefit to another season in juniors.
I also think that those three were kind of like Sean Couturier - too good to play another season in their respective junior leagues, but might not have been able to stand the rigors of the NHL right away. I also think that those clubs might have emulated the development path that the Flyers used for Couturier - play the guys in a limited role, let them get their feet wet and then see what they can do.

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12-31-2012, 11:24 AM
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There is no such thing as being to good to play in the CHL the year after you have been drafted. I dont agree with that. The ability to really work on your game and play big minutes goes a long way in feeling like you are ready for the next level.

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12-31-2012, 11:10 PM
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There is no such thing as being to good to play in the CHL the year after you have been drafted. I dont agree with that. The ability to really work on your game and play big minutes goes a long way in feeling like you are ready for the next level.
The year after Johansen was drafted he spent in the WHL.

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12-31-2012, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Not to say Howson hasn't made a lot of boneheaded decisions in the past, but another center in the exact same situation as Johansen was during the past lockout was one Eric Staal. Slogged through a 31 point season in the NHL as a freshly drafted player, went to the AHL, scored a PPG average and came out the other end of the lockout as a 100 point player...
Sure except Stall played 81 NHL games in his rookie season and got quality MPG 16:40.

huge difference from how the Jackets treated Johansen last year.

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12-31-2012, 11:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mayor Bee View Post
Since 1990-91, the following players have scored fewer than 25 points in their 18- and 19-year-old NHL season.

Stephen Weiss
Scott Hartnell
Shane Doan
Tyler Seguin
Kyle Turris
Justin Williams
Pierre-Marc Bouchard
Petr Nedved
Owen Nolan
Nathan Horton
Joe Thornton
Alexander Semin
Adam Deadmarsh
Jeff Friesen
Ryan Smyth
Dustin Brown
Ryan Kesler
Keith Tkachuk
Pavol Demitra
Adam Graves
Olli Jokinen

Look at all those wasted picks there...forever ruined by having them in the NHL early.
How many of them were scratched and played out of postion and played less than 11MPG?

List gets pretty small quick then.

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12-31-2012, 11:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Hardyvan123 View Post
How many of them were scratched and played out of postion and played less than 11MPG?

List gets pretty small quick then.
The hell does that have to do with anything? If Johansen had less ice time than those guys and he put up similar numbers, wouldnt that make it more impressive that he matched those guys with less time? I understand you're getting at ice time and development but really it doesnt mean much considering hes in the same category as them for his rookie year in points.

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01-01-2013, 12:34 AM
  #25
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The hell does that have to do with anything? If Johansen had less ice time than those guys and he put up similar numbers, wouldnt that make it more impressive that he matched those guys with less time? I understand you're getting at ice time and development but really it doesnt mean much considering hes in the same category as them for his rookie year in points.
The OP is asking what is best for his development and in 90% of cases I believe big minutes in all situations is better than being scratched for more than the odd game or two at age 18.

At that age it's about the process and not points, I'd want my players playing as much as possible all things being equal.

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