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Old
01-02-2013, 01:56 AM
  #76
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Credibility must be questioned after this gem.
Yes, because putting a player of Nuge's skill set in a position to excell is something that questions the credibility of somebodys opinion.

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01-02-2013, 02:02 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Martini View Post
Yes, because putting a player of Nuge's skill set in a position to excell is something that questions the credibility of somebodys opinion.
When they are skilled enough to be a team leading number one center and you claim he should be a second line center...well, I shouldn't even need to explain it, should I?

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01-02-2013, 02:06 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Apparently not, its not us believing random joe's who have Yakupov as the Coyotes 4th choice in the last draft.

Its no secret that the Coyotes can't spend much. That's why Ray Whitney left. Even your heart and soul was skeptical to re-sign, not because of money, but because of uncertainty. If Shane Doan needs to take that long to think about signing with Phoenix, then I don't think it would take most guys to rule them out completely. Like Ray Whitney did, despite being given everything he wanted with the Coyotes before becoming a free agent.
Once again, you are delving into matters you seem to know very little about. The Coyotes decided not to re-sign Whitney because they felt giving him that second year at that price was a poor choice. I'm inclined to agree.

Not to derail this thread totally, but there should be some certainty concerning ownership in the next few weeks. It Jamison hasn't closed by then, we will almost certainly be sold for relocation. At that point, all of this discussion is fairly irrelevant. If he does, than there is a sweetheart twenty year lease agreement with Jamison and a good amount of certainty.

More to the point of the thread, I wouldnt do the original proposal from a Phoenix perspective and I suspect the actual Coyotes would also decline. I don't think that's too terribly insulting to the Oilers, their players or their fans. Just a simple thanks but no thanks.

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Old
01-02-2013, 02:11 AM
  #79
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
When they are skilled enough to be a team leading number one center and you claim he should be a second line center...well, I shouldn't even need to explain it, should I?
Please read what I typed out in the first place.

It doesnt matter if he has the skill to be a top line player. The Oilers have so much high end depth putting Nuge on the second line makes the Oilers that much better.

Marian Hossa is a top line player, but excells as a second line player. During the Hawks Cup run, they had a third line of Bolland, Ladd, and Versteeg. Two of those players, once traded, have shown they are top line players but were that much better as third line players since no team that year had the depth to match.

I find it humorus that people still think loading up one line with all the teams best players is something unique when the last three Cup winners showed mixing up the skill with role players makes teams that much better.

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01-02-2013, 02:16 AM
  #80
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Originally Posted by Oilin Toronto View Post
The whole world knows of Coyotes financial woes, and if for a moment, you think that the Coyotes would be in the, let's say, Getzlaf or Perry sweepstakes, than you certainly know something that i don't know. Not trying to be mean, but do you think that any top line player would consider Phoenix? As an Oiler fan, I can tell you that we had our share of difficulties in attracting the blue chip FA's.

Also, I know that Edmonton values a 2nd line C than a D. IMO, we would not be ready to trade Yakupov for someone like KY
No, I don't think there is any way the Coyotes would be in on Getzlaf. A guy like Ribeiro, on the other hand, might make some sense, both in terms of fit and affordability. I'm certainly willing to admit we are going to be building through the draft and from the bargain bin for the foreseeable future. If done effectively enough, it might be enough to keep us in the hunt until things turn around. That's the hope and prayer, of course. It's also why I want to hang onto Yandle and OEL.

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01-02-2013, 02:26 AM
  #81
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Yakupov+? for Samuelsson, Gormley

The Oil should be going after Samuelsson. He already plays in Edmonton. He is gritty and can play both center and wing. And would bring that size into the top 6 that they have been looking for.

Gormley is a huge asking price but Yakupov would be a certified star in Phoenix.

Not sure what the + would be but for sure Yakupov alone would not get you those 2.

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01-02-2013, 02:55 AM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Martini View Post
Please read what I typed out in the first place.

It doesnt matter if he has the skill to be a top line player. The Oilers have so much high end depth putting Nuge on the second line makes the Oilers that much better.

Marian Hossa is a top line player, but excells as a second line player. During the Hawks Cup run, they had a third line of Bolland, Ladd, and Versteeg. Two of those players, once traded, have shown they are top line players but were that much better as third line players since no team that year had the depth to match.

I find it humorus that people still think loading up one line with all the teams best players is something unique when the last three Cup winners showed mixing up the skill with role players makes teams that much better.
So what, you think we should have Gagner or Horcoff ahead of RNH on the depth chart? No thanks.

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01-02-2013, 03:07 AM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Iceonfire View Post
Yakupov+? for Samuelsson, Gormley

The Oil should be going after Samuelsson. He already plays in Edmonton. He is gritty and can play both center and wing. And would bring that size into the top 6 that they have been looking for.

Gormley is a huge asking price but Yakupov would be a certified star in Phoenix.

Not sure what the + would be but for sure Yakupov alone would not get you those 2.
Not much of a chance on getting Gormley, how about Yakupov for Samuelsson, Connor Murphy and 2014 2nd or 3rd pick.

The Coyotes would get that top line winger that could draw the fans in and Edmonton would get that potential 2nd line C/RW power-forward (needs to work on his skating to make the NHL ), a possible 2way top 4 RHS D and a pick. Both teams fill positions that they need.

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01-02-2013, 03:09 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by oilers4life5 View Post
Could Gagner and Yandle be the base of a deal??
Gagner is too bad to be a second-line center with the Oilers, a team that have been **** for years. Why do you think Coyotes, a team that have been great for years, would be willing to give up a loyal and great player for him?

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01-02-2013, 03:19 AM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Puritania View Post
So what, you think we should have Gagner or Horcoff ahead of RNH on the depth chart? No thanks.
And this, right here, shows just were the Oilers are.

No depth means there is very little chance, in this day and age, for a team to win a Cup.


Like I have said, drafting first overall for three years doesnt guarentee a thing if you dont have a GM who can parlay all that projected skill into depth. And considering no prized free agent in their prime wants to go to Edmonton, the Oilers might be stuck between a rock and a hard place....or more high draft picks.

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01-02-2013, 06:08 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by oilers4life5 View Post
Could Gagner and Yandle be the base of a deal??
If Gagner has a 25+ goal 70 point season, sure.
If Gagner shows that he's a legit #2 center playing along side Eberle, Hall or Yakpuov, sure.
Until then, the majority of people on HFboards are going to laugh at such a proposal.

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01-02-2013, 06:39 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by Martini View Post
And this, right here, shows just were the Oilers are.

No depth means there is very little chance, in this day and age, for a team to win a Cup.


Like I have said, drafting first overall for three years doesnt guarentee a thing if you dont have a GM who can parlay all that projected skill into depth. And considering no prized free agent in their prime wants to go to Edmonton, the Oilers might be stuck between a rock and a hard place....or more high draft picks.
No prized free agents want to sign here? Damn. I could have sworn some Schultz guy just signed here after every team in the league tried to woo him over. Thanks for reminding me otherwise

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01-02-2013, 06:54 AM
  #88
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Do you have any evidence of this? Its been widely reported that 29 of 30 teams had Yakupov first, and speculation that Montreal had Galchenyuk first is rampant. Not to mention Brian Burke's claim that they had Reilly first, which I don't really believe at all, ha ha.
that's not true either, bob mckenzie stated that out of 10 top scouts yakupov was 1 for 8 of them.

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01-02-2013, 07:10 AM
  #89
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Are you fellas really attempting to educate Coyotes fans on our team's budgetary restrictions? Like you pay closer attention than us. You are way out of your element here, boys. Trust me, the guy you quoted has a much, much better idea about Phoenix's player budget than you guys do.

Listen, there is no need for things to degenerate into a fanbase lecturing another about their own team. We've got a pretty good idea about our own house, thanks. Here's the long and the short of it, Phoenix is not in a position to move either of OEL or Yandle at this moment. If you disagree, it's probably because you don't follow closely enough.
That's a lot of assumptions. There's some smart and well-informed posters around here from many different fan bases. And, I'm sure, some very dumb Phx fans. Tone down the condescension.

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01-02-2013, 10:16 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Do you have any evidence of this? Its been widely reported that 29 of 30 teams had Yakupov first, and speculation that Montreal had Galchenyuk first is rampant. Not to mention Brian Burke's claim that they had Reilly first, which I don't really believe at all, ha ha.
GMDM had said he prefers not to draft Russians 1st because of the KHL factor. 1 reliable poster that is friends with a scout had actually seen the 'list' verified it. Knowing what skills & characteristics that the Coyote management views as important, I wouldn't question it.

Quote:
And everyone but you has OEL as Phoenix's number one, not Yandle.
And yet if he was on the Oilers he would be the #1! I personally see then as 1a & 1b and it's about matching up with the forward lines and the oppositions' lines.

Quote:
If Shane Doan needs to take that long to think about signing with Phoenix, then I don't think it would take most guys to rule them out completely.
and to think I thought it was the accident his daughter had that made him reflect about what is important was the main, if not the only reason why it took him so long. It was reported that he was speculating retirement so he can spend more time with his daughter, but she proved to be resilient and made a fast recovery with what seems to be no emotional scars.

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01-02-2013, 10:28 AM
  #91
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No prized free agents want to sign here? Damn. I could have sworn some Schultz guy just signed here after every team in the league tried to woo him over. Thanks for reminding me otherwise
Schultz is just a prospect who is lighting up the AHL right now.The jury is still out if he can transend his game to the NHL.

Is he in his prime? No, which is what I stated. Rob Brown lit up the AHL for countless years also, so.....

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01-02-2013, 10:44 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by oilersfan11 View Post
To Coyotes

One of Taylor Hall/Jordan Eberle/Nail Yakupov




To Oilers
OEL
Coyotes Laugh , Think about it if the shoes were reversed would you do it ? A winger is easier to replace then a young #1 D man that still has room to get better . Yes our wingers still will get better , but a D man is always more valuable .

Sorry Coyotes fans not all Oiler fan think this way .

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01-02-2013, 10:53 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by DesertDawg View Post
GMDM had said he prefers not to draft Russians 1st because of the KHL factor. 1 reliable poster that is friends with a scout had actually seen the 'list' verified it. Knowing what skills & characteristics that the Coyote management views as important, I wouldn't question it.

And yet if he was on the Oilers he would be the #1! I personally see then as 1a & 1b and it's about matching up with the forward lines and the oppositions' lines.


and to think I thought it was the accident his daughter had that made him reflect about what is important was the main, if not the only reason why it took him so long. It was reported that he was speculating retirement so he can spend more time with his daughter, but she proved to be resilient and made a fast recovery with what seems to be no emotional scars.
The Oilers prefer not to draft Russians too. They did anyway because he was the best player. The skills that are important to Phoenix management are important to Phoenix management because they don't have any superstar forwards. Sorry, thats just obvious.

The post in reference to OEL being your number 1, not Yandle clearly stated "our (Phoenix's) number one". Who is OEL.

I have no doubt retirement was on his mind. But it was also reported that he was considering other offers and waiting to see if anything changed with management in Phoenix before he made up his mind on another contract, in Phoenix or elsewhere. The most loyal Phoenix Coyote ever thought about leaving. If he thinks about leaving, its not a stretch to think that no superstars, who have the choice of almost any team in the league, won't pick Phoenix.

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01-02-2013, 11:57 AM
  #94
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
The Oilers prefer not to draft Russians too. They did anyway because he was the best player. The skills that are important to Phoenix management are important to Phoenix management because they don't have any superstar forwards. Sorry, thats just obvious.
??? and yet they made it to the Western Conference Finals, while the Oilers, who is loaded with these superstars continually sit at the bottom of the conference. I guess because the Coyotes value 2-way play as important shouldn't be the priority, just scoring potential.
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
The post in reference to OEL being your number 1, not Yandle clearly stated "our (Phoenix's) number one". Who is OEL.
and yet on a resent HF poll, people voted Yandle ahead of OEL. I also thought Yandle was more effective in the playoff run than Ekman-Larsson, so what's your point?
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
I have no doubt retirement was on his mind. But it was also reported that he was considering other offers and waiting to see if anything changed with management in Phoenix before he made up his mind on another contract, in Phoenix or elsewhere. The most loyal Phoenix Coyote ever thought about leaving. If he thinks about leaving, its not a stretch to think that no superstars, who have the choice of almost any team in the league, won't pick Phoenix.
So because Doan was in no hurry to make a decision based on the ownership saga and could just wait it out until camp starts, but instead he signed a contract before then and still picked the Coyotes after his daughter's condition improved... here something you can harp about. I expect Jamison to try to make an immediate impact and go after a top line center next free agency. If the cap goes down to ~$60 mil like the owners want, I do not expect teams to line up offering top dollar for the services of top UFAs while the Coyotes are conveniently at the bottom of the salary cap list. I do expect GMDM not to overpay for any UFAs. Burke probably will try. Could see the Coyotes going after Zajac and/or Weiss next off season, if they don't re-sign with their teams (Don't expect Getzlaf to be a free agent, but the Coyotes would be interested, but unwilling to pay top dollar). Maybe Rebeiro.

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01-02-2013, 12:16 PM
  #95
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Not much of a chance on getting Gormley, how about Yakupov for Samuelsson, Connor Murphy and 2014 2nd or 3rd pick.

The Coyotes would get that top line winger that could draw the fans in and Edmonton would get that potential 2nd line C/RW power-forward (needs to work on his skating to make the NHL ), a possible 2way top 4 RHS D and a pick. Both teams fill positions that they need.
You really think PHX would not give up Gormley in a package to get Yak. Please shake your head and think about this.


Last edited by spiny norman: 01-02-2013 at 12:23 PM. Reason: not needed
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01-02-2013, 12:59 PM
  #96
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??? and yet they made it to the Western Conference Finals, while the Oilers, who is loaded with these superstars continually sit at the bottom of the conference. I guess because the Coyotes value 2-way play as important shouldn't be the priority, just scoring potential.

and yet on a resent HF poll, people voted Yandle ahead of OEL. I also thought Yandle was more effective in the playoff run than Ekman-Larsson, so what's your point?
So because Doan was in no hurry to make a decision based on the ownership saga and could just wait it out until camp starts, but instead he signed a contract before then and still picked the Coyotes after his daughter's condition improved... here something you can harp about. I expect Jamison to try to make an immediate impact and go after a top line center next free agency. If the cap goes down to ~$60 mil like the owners want, I do not expect teams to line up offering top dollar for the services of top UFAs while the Coyotes are conveniently at the bottom of the salary cap list. I do expect GMDM not to overpay for any UFAs. Burke probably will try. Could see the Coyotes going after Zajac and/or Weiss next off season, if they don't re-sign with their teams (Don't expect Getzlaf to be a free agent, but the Coyotes would be interested, but unwilling to pay top dollar). Maybe Rebeiro.
If the cap goes down, it will be linked to current salaries, and there will be tons of teams going for those same centers.

I never meant to insult the Phoenix team, because they have done extremely well with what they have. I was actually rooting for them in the playoffs last year for whatever that is worth. But any team, even one based on defense first play, can use some top end scoring threats. The new owner will probably want to make a splash, I agree with that, but I don`t know if it will be able to be done the way you hope it will. Free agents, sure, but not superstar ones. No Perry, Getzlaf of Iginla will sign in Phoenix, I`m pretty confident in saying.

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01-02-2013, 01:03 PM
  #97
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I expect Jamison to try to make an immediate impact and go after a top line center next free agency. If the cap goes down to ~$60 mil like the owners want, I do not expect teams to line up offering top dollar for the services of top UFAs while the Coyotes are conveniently at the bottom of the salary cap list. I do expect GMDM not to overpay for any UFAs. Burke probably will try. Could see the Coyotes going after Zajac and/or Weiss next off season, if they don't re-sign with their teams (Don't expect Getzlaf to be a free agent, but the Coyotes would be interested, but unwilling to pay top dollar). Maybe Rebeiro.
It's not an unrealistic expectation. The Yotes are in a good position to take advantage of the fallout from the transition to a lower salary cap. Either in a give-away cap shedding trade, or via a change in the free agent market and who can afford whom.

Additionally, it's not crazy to think that in a shortened season, the Yotes might miss the playoffs and wind up with a top 6 pick. Dave Tippett's a miracle work, some sort of Saskatchewan shaman-coach that pulls wins out of thin air. But in a shortened season, even he might fall victim to an injury ridden roster. If something happens to Mike Smith for any stretch of time, would anyone be surprised to see the Yotes miss the playoffs? Add in any of Mackinnon, Barkov, Drouin, Lindholm or Monahan in place of Langkow's 29 points for $4.25M from the third line. The Yotes look better now and in the future, without trading anyone, and are still near the bottom of salary.

Both of those are preferred, realistic options to improving the Yotes' roster and potentially landing an all-star without trading Yandle/OEL/Gormley.

No, it's going to take an "offer we can't refuse" to make us change our minds about moving one of those guys and changing strategy.

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01-02-2013, 01:08 PM
  #98
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Yakupov
Hemsky

for

Gormley
Boedker

Gives Edmonton a potential top-pairing young dman to grow with J.Schultz & the Oiler core. Boedker could play into Edmonton's top-6 replacing Hemsky. Also could free up a spot to let MPS grow.

Hall - RNH - Hartkeinen*
Boedker - Gagner - Eberle
Smyth - Horcoff - MPS

N.Schultz - Smid
J.Schultz - Gormley

Phoenix gets a face of the Franchise (Yakupov) perhaps help sell tickets. Hemsky (if healthy) can provide some offensive pop. Maybe he can gel with Doan? Doan-Hanzel-Hemsky line could be stable. Trade allows Phoenix to remain playoff contenders, as Boedker & Gormley were not contributors to Yotes success.

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01-02-2013, 01:11 PM
  #99
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Originally Posted by Oates2Neely View Post
Yakupov
Hemsky

for

Gormley
Boedker

Gives Edmonton a potential top-pairing young dman to grow with J.Schultz & the Oiler core. Boedker could play into Edmonton's top-6 replacing Hemsky. Also could free up a spot to let MPS grow.

Hall - RNH - Hartkeinen*
Boedker - Gagner - Eberle
Smyth - Horcoff - ( ? )

N.Schultz - Smid
J.Schultz - Gormley

Phoenix gets a face of the Franchise (Yakupov) perhaps help sell tickets. Hemsky (if healthy) can provide some offensive pop. Maybe he can gel with Doan? Doan-Hanzel-Hemsky line could be stable. Trade allows Phoenix to remain playoff contenders, as Boedker & Gormley were not contributors to Yotes success.
Nope. The difference between Yakupov and Gormley is too significant to be made up by the difference between Hemsky and Boedker. Although I like the basis of it, I think both teams are taking too big of a risk in this deal (Hemsky's injuries for Phoenix, potentially losing a 50 goals scorer for a non-franchise defenseman).

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01-02-2013, 01:13 PM
  #100
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Nope. The difference between Yakupov and Gormley is too significant to be made up by the difference between Hemsky and Boedker. Although I like the basis of it, I think both teams are taking too big of a risk in this deal (Hemsky's injuries for Phoenix, potentially losing a 50 goals scorer for a non-franchise defenseman).
Valid points. However if you upgrade Gormley to Yandle, Phoenix fans would request upgrading Hemsky to something more significant,, or at least a slight "add".

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