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The Senate and House both pass the Obama Tax Cuts! Now can we start cutting crap?

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Old
01-01-2013, 07:02 PM
  #51
Kadri43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AP View Post
Cut taxes in order to get the economy rolling or raise the taxes so we can have more people out of work and getting a handout. I prefer the former. Hopefully congress gets rid of the deal.
Um I am pretty sure you cannot cut taxes when you are 16 trillion in debt without a massive decrease in spending. The first thing that needs to happen is a decrease in spending, particularly in foreign wars. Where does the money come from when you lower taxes? Is the Fed going to print more? Is the US going to borrow more and raise the debt ceiling? I might agree that cutting taxes could be beneficial in the short term but notwhen you do not have a massive debt crisis.

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01-01-2013, 07:07 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
Wait but didn't you just say that *I* was the one with poor reading comprehension?
That is why I wrote "Correct me if I am wrong"; I was not sure.

Here is what you said in a previous post, "People just need to accept that government has grown and they're getting more from their government, so suck it up and pay for what you're getting".

To me saying suck it up and pay for what you are getting implies do not question the government and just pay your taxes. Do not question the government.


Last edited by Kadri43: 01-01-2013 at 07:08 PM. Reason: You also wrote, "Well yeah, that's what taxation is". It sure seems like you love your government and do not question it.
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01-01-2013, 07:09 PM
  #53
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
Um I am pretty sure you cannot cut taxes when you are 16 trillion in debt without a massive decrease in spending. The first thing that needs to happen is a decrease in spending, particularly in foreign wars. Where does the money come from when you lower taxes? Is the Fed going to print more? Is the US going to borrow more and raise the debt ceiling? I might agree that cutting taxes could be beneficial in the short term but notwhen you do not have a massive debt crisis.
As far as I'm concerned, any politican that contributed to this debt should be stripped of everything they have to go towards paying off the debt.

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01-01-2013, 07:13 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by AP View Post
As far as I'm concerned, any politican that contributed to this debt should be stripped of everything they have to go towards paying off the debt.
This is a good idea in theory but it simply will not happen. Back to the real question, how could you cut taxes with no spending cuts with a 16 trillion debt?

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01-01-2013, 07:14 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
To me saying suck it up and pay for what you are getting implies do not question the government and just pay your taxes. Do not question the government.
Saying that every time under every circumstance would imply that. Since most people here have expressed their opinions on these matters and generally understand them and then say what Ilk said in no way implies "The Government is Always Right."

The people want Medicare. The people want SSI.

If they want these things then they should expect to pay for them somehow. The somehow includes revenue, be that direct taxes or closing loopholes etc...

I'm all for scrutinizing Medicare, but as you probably heard, Obama cut the cost of Medicare and the Republicans (Who don't even want a government run Medicare system) blamed Obama for cutting Medicare during the campaign.

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01-01-2013, 07:15 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
I don't think you understand what the "Fiscal Cliff" is.
I'm confused? I said doesn't this current bill just extend tax benefits for the middle class. You said no it extends ATM, UI, & EIC. I was wrong because it would push back the spending cuts but I don't see how I was wrong about it extending tax benefits for the middle class. It looks like it does do that.

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01-01-2013, 07:18 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by eXile59 View Post
I'm confused? I said doesn't this current bill just extend tax benefits for the middle class. You said no it extends ATM, UI, & EIC. I was wrong because it would push back the spending cuts but I don't see how I was wrong about it extending tax benefits for the middle class. It looks like it does do that.
You said "We did go over?".

Based on the post you responded to, I took this to mean we have and will continue to be over the Cliff even if the bill is passed. If that's not what you meant, well.... there's the confusion.

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01-01-2013, 07:22 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Saying that every time under every circumstance would imply that. Since most people here have expressed their opinions on these matters and generally understand them and then say what Ilk said in no way implies "The Government is Always Right."

The people want Medicare. The people want SSI.

If they want these things then they should expect to pay for them somehow. The somehow includes revenue, be that direct taxes or closing loopholes etc...

I'm all for scrutinizing Medicare, but as you probably heard, Obama cut the cost of Medicare and the Republicans (Who don't even want a government run Medicare system) blamed Obama for cutting Medicare during the campaign.
Ya I heard the Obama cut Medicare. I do not understand how the Republicans could get mad at him for that when their ideological agenda is suppose to be less government. I guess it is party politics at its finest.

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01-01-2013, 07:28 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
Ya I heard the Obama cut Medicare. I do not understand how the Republicans could get mad at him for that when their ideological agenda is suppose to be less government. I guess it is party politics at its finest.
It's the same as how they are now *****ing about unfunded tax cuts when they all voted for unfunded tax cuts in the past. And how they now claim that those tax cuts were never meant to be permanent.

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01-01-2013, 07:33 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
Ya I heard the Obama cut Medicare. I do not understand how the Republicans could get mad at him for that when their ideological agenda is suppose to be less government. I guess it is party politics at its finest.
This always blew my mind in the campaign.

You had two republican candidates going around and championing that they were going to save medicare and Obama was a bad guy for cutting it.

Now I understand if the argument was saying Obama cut medicare and didn't put the money to proper use...but no. You literally had a republican campaigning on something that is against conservative ideologies...and Republicans ate it right up..

I'll never understand the 2012 election.

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01-01-2013, 07:38 PM
  #61
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Up or down vote from the House as per CSPAN.

Vote will come after a 1 hour rules debate followed by a 1 hour bill debate. Vote should come in around 11:30-12.

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01-01-2013, 07:59 PM
  #62
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Luke Russert ‏@LukeRussert . @chucktodd Boehner now unlikely to vote unless they need him to get to 218

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01-01-2013, 08:17 PM
  #63
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CBO: 'Fiscal cliff' deal carries $4 trillion price tag over next decade

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01-01-2013, 08:17 PM
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I enjoy listening to David Dreier talk about compromise. A foreign concept for a lot of politicians -- he gets it.

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01-01-2013, 08:18 PM
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The price tag is solely due to the tax cuts. This is only the initial part of what will become a larger compromise that includes spending cuts. You just parrot off everything you hear on Fox. It's uncanny.

Where was this outrage when the Bush tax cuts were unfunded? Now all of a sudden the (currently) unfunded Obama tax cuts are no good?

LOL****ingLOL.

What a ****ing joke to even post that. You are so obtuse. Anyone with a clue knows that this is the first step in fixing the actual cliff. The cuts will be the next fight.

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01-01-2013, 08:18 PM
  #66
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Are you saying you wanted the tax cuts to expire, the AMT to not get fixed?

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01-01-2013, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Are you saying you wanted the tax cuts to expire, the AMT to not get fixed?
He clearly wants higher taxes on all Americans.

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01-01-2013, 08:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
The price tag is solely due to the tax cuts. This is only the initial part of what will become a larger compromise that includes spending cuts. You just parrot off everything you hear on Fox. It's uncanny.

Where was this outrage when the Bush tax cuts were unfunded? Now all of a sudden the (currently) unfunded Obama tax cuts are no good?

LOL****ingLOL.

What a ****ing joke to even post that. You are so obtuse. Anyone with a clue knows that this is the first step in fixing the actual cliff. The cuts will be the next fight.
The article is from the Hill. Maybe if you actually read it you would know what you were talking about.
Quote:
The CBO says the budget agreement will lead to an overall increase in spending of about $330 billion over 10 years.

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01-01-2013, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by Led Zappa View Post
Are you saying you wanted the tax cuts to expire, the AMT to not get fixed?
It's funny for years you(and the left) were *****ing you wanted the Bush tax cuts for everyone to end and how they were driving us into debt.

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01-01-2013, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
It's funny for years you(and the left) were *****ing you wanted the Bush tax cuts for everyone to end and how they were driving us into debt.
I still do. Over time. Say starting 2014 or the year after that over say 5 years. Except those over 250K which should have started a while ago.

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01-01-2013, 08:24 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
The article is from the Hill. Maybe if you actually read it you would know what you were talking about
You have no ****ing clue what you are talking about. The entire spending raise from this bill stems from cutting the taxes. DId you even read what you posted or do you just latch on to what your party leaders tell you? You can't be that stupid. The tax cuts are going to increase any deficit because -- ****ING SHOCKING -- ALL TAX CUTS INCREASE DEFICITS.

This is the initial aspect of the spending issue aspect of the cliff that will come to head in two months. You do realize that, correct? I assume that you can't possibly be that out of touch with reality.

You cannot possibly be this dense, though. And it's a poor troll job if it is that. A troll job shouldn't make the troll look stupid.

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01-01-2013, 08:29 PM
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CSPAN: House expected to pass bill with no amendments.

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01-01-2013, 08:32 PM
  #73
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
You have no ****ing clue what you are talking about. The entire spending raise from this bill stems from cutting the taxes. DId you even read what you posted or do you just latch on to what your party leaders tell you? You can't be that stupid. The tax cuts are going to increase any deficit because -- ****ING SHOCKING -- ALL TAX CUTS INCREASE DEFICITS.
Except these aren't tax cuts. They are tax increases on the rich and everyone else's rates is staying the same. The increase in the deficit come from things like:

‘Fiscal Cliff’ Deal Also Doles Out Millions for Hollywood, Railroads, Rum Producers

Quote:
$430 million for Hollywood through “special expensing rules” to encourage TV and film production in the United States. Producers can expense up to $15 million of costs for their projects.

$331 million for railroads by allowing short-line and regional operators to claim a tax credit up to 50 percent of the cost to maintain tracks that they own or lease.

$222 million for Puerto Rico and the Virgin Islands through returned excise taxes collected by the federal government on rum produced in the islands and imported to the mainland.
$70 million for NASCAR by extending a “7-year cost recovery period for certain motorsports racing track facilities.”
$59 million for algae growers through tax credits to encourage production of “cellulosic biofuel” at up to $1.01 per gallon.
$4 million for electric motorcycle makers by expanding an existing green-energy tax credit for buyers of plug-in vehicles to include electric motorbikes

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
This is the initial aspect of the spending issue aspect of the cliff that will come to head in two months. You do realize that, correct? I assume that you can't possibly be that out of touch with reality.

You cannot possibly be this dense, though. And it's a poor troll job if it is that. A troll job shouldn't make the troll look stupid.
are you paying attention? For every dollar in new taxes there are like 10 in new spending. They aren't adding to new revenue their just spending and spending.

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01-01-2013, 08:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lost Horizons View Post
Except these aren't tax cuts. They are tax increases on the rich and everyone else's rates is staying the same. The increase in the deficit come from things like:

‘Fiscal Cliff’ Deal Also Doles Out Millions for Hollywood, Railroads, Rum Producers






are you paying attention? For every dollar in new taxes there are like 10 in new spending. They aren't adding to new revenue their just spending and spending.


Yes. You are stupid.

These ARE tax cuts. Or did you somehow forget that the tax rates just increased on everyone in America a few hours ago? Perhaps you should do some more reading and less copy and pasting. If you read everything you copied and pasted, you may actually get educated.

And oh no. ~$1B or so worth of pork in a massive tax deal. Talk about a minor drop in the bucket. These are things that likely got people on board with the bill. It happens and it will always happen.

So now you are going to change gears and such?

And new spending? My ****ing God. How can you say that? That's already been debunked a number of times today. The current deal has $41 in tax increases for every $1 in cuts. But if you would have taken your head out of your ass, you'd realize that this is ONLY THE INITIAL PART OF THE LARGER DEAL. The spending cuts will be coming when the 113th Congress convenes.

There is no real increased spending with this. These are currently unfunded tax cuts that will be funded with spending cuts in about two months (unlike Bush's unfunded spending cuts that were never, ever funded).

The Obama Tax Cuts will be funded. Soon. Take your head out of your bottom and realize that. Stop parroting what the Tea Bagging right is claiming. This is not that difficult.

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01-01-2013, 08:49 PM
  #75
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Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post


Yes. You are stupid.

These ARE tax cuts. Or did you somehow forget that the tax rates just increased on everyone in America a few hours ago? Perhaps you should do some more reading and less copy and pasting. If you read everything you copied and pasted, you may actually get educated.
Really giving back $222 million is a tax cut? No it's not. You don't read any articles people post do you?

And everyone taxes did go up thanks to this "deal"

Senate-Passed Deal Means Higher Tax on 77% of Households


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
And oh no. ~$1B or so worth of pork in a massive tax deal. Talk about a minor drop in the bucket. These are things that likely got people on board with the bill. It happens and it will always happen.

So now you are going to change gears and such?

And new spending? My ****ing God. How can you say that? That's already been debunked a number of times today. The current deal has $41 in tax increases for every $1 in cuts. But if you would have taken your head out of your ass, you'd realize that this is ONLY THE INITIAL PART OF THE LARGER DEAL. The spending cuts will be coming when the 113th Congress convenes.
It's not part of a larger deal. There is no agreement to tackle spending later. None. Zip. They just kicked things down the road to maybe look at cuts.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonathan. View Post
There is no real increased spending with this. These are currently unfunded tax cuts that will be funded with spending cuts in about two months (unlike Bush's unfunded spending cuts that were never, ever funded).

The Obama Tax Cuts will be funded. Soon. Take your head out of your bottom and realize that. Stop parroting what the Tea Bagging right is claiming. This is not that difficult.

Really so now there Obama tax cuts even though just two paragraph up your talk about $41 in tax increases for $1 in cuts (if that). There are no tax cuts everyone rates either stay the same or go up

Senate-Passed Deal Means Higher Tax on 77% of Households


Some tax cut

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