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Lots of wingers; Blockbuster coming?

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01-09-2013, 04:56 PM
  #76
bleedblue1223
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Originally Posted by Crumblin Erb Brooks View Post
What has Schwartz done? He was outmatched in the NHL last season, and has been only decent but streaky in the AHL this year. His play without the puck still needs a lot of work. It can be overlooked if you are scoring, but Im not sure Schwartz is a guy who could step into the NHL immediately and be a difference maker offensively.

I just think he needs to play well in Peoria before he is getting penciled in ahead of guys like Dago and Stewart, both guys who have had a lot of pro success. I will say that I dont think Stewart finishes the year on this team, but until a trade or injury happens, I think Jaden will be in the AHL.
Like I said, if D'Agostini or Stewart play like they did last season, then Schwartz will play. Schwartz can easily match what they produced last year and playing in NHL games with NHL talent will speed up his development.

Playing with inferior players in an inferior league is not best for his development. Stats in the AHL really don't matter that much IMO. It's how some hitters in baseball do worse in the minors than the majors because they are better suited to face major league pitchers.

I could argue it would be better for Schwartz to be the 13th and occasionally play than it would for him to play with Peoria.

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01-09-2013, 05:32 PM
  #77
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If they would put Schwartz with Hensick and Nesbitt, or find a player around the level of Nesbitt for him to play a regular shift with, Peoria wouldn't be so bad of an option. The way that team is constructed now Schwartz is getting an identical treatment that Eller did. Playing well but stuck with crummy line mates. I don't care how good of a player you are, you can't make a line mate play better than the natural ability they already have. Crosby couldn't bounce 30 goals off a guy like Murray in the AHL why should any of us expect Schwartz to? I am really not trying to dog on AHL players as I think everyone on the Rivs is giving the best they can so please don't take that as my intentions. There simply is not much scoring talent on that team.

Like others have said, even if he does go right back down after camp I don't believe it will be a long stay due to the condensed schedule. I am really excited to see him as a regular in the NHL, whenever that may happen, as the kid just oozes hockey smarts and should compliment any of our top three lines well.

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01-09-2013, 05:44 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
If Schwartz stays with the club, how do you see the roster? Seems like D'Agostini (or Stewart or someone) would almost have to be moved or else we get Schwartz sitting and watching a lot (bad for his development). And it also would wind up hurting the depth, which was a big strength last season.
If we're playing fantasy coach, I think the answer is to force more competition among the checkers instead of the scorers. The Blues' scoring lines are so good at checking, too, so why not?

And what I mean by that is that Nichol has to compete with Sobotka for the fourth line center job instead of shoving Sobotka to wing because it's a foregone conclusion that Nichol is the 4th line center. And Langenbrunner has to compete with Reaves, not scoring players.

I know the pairs and lines that Hitchcock already likes, but check out something like this:
McDonald-Backes-Stewart
Perron-Berglund-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Steen-Oshie
Reaves-Sobotka-D'Agostini
with Nichol and Langenbrunner coming in for guys who are banged up or whenever things get stale.

The advantage you have with a lineup like that is if you decide to shorten the bench, you just sit Schwartz for Sobotka and you have your shutdown line. And if Stewart is playing poorly, move up D'Agostini, who has previously looked great with McDonald and Backes.

Not that I expect this to happen, but you can absolutely use all of Schwartz, Stewart, and D'Agostini without stunting Schwartz's development or icing an inferior lineup.

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01-09-2013, 05:57 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
If we're playing fantasy coach, I think the answer is to force more competition among the checkers instead of the scorers. The Blues' scoring lines are so good at checking, too, so why not?

And what I mean by that is that Nichol has to compete with Sobotka for the fourth line center job instead of shoving Sobotka to wing because it's a foregone conclusion that Nichol is the 4th line center. And Langenbrunner has to compete with Reaves, not scoring players.

I know the pairs and lines that Hitchcock already likes, but check out something like this:
McDonald-Backes-Stewart
Perron-Berglund-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Steen-Oshie
Reaves-Sobotka-D'Agostini
with Nichol and Langenbrunner coming in for guys who are banged up or whenever things get stale.

The advantage you have with a lineup like that is if you decide to shorten the bench, you just sit Schwartz for Sobotka and you have your shutdown line. And if Stewart is playing poorly, move up D'Agostini, who has previously looked great with McDonald and Backes.

Not that I expect this to happen, but you can absolutely use all of Schwartz, Stewart, and D'Agostini without stunting Schwartz's development or icing an inferior lineup.
I agree with what you're saying in concept, but I would switch Oshie and Stewart. If Oshie and Backes play so well together, I don't want to split that up. They are great offensively and defensively. Stewart may have a bounce back year, in which case I'd be okay with trying him with Backes, but until he proves he's going to give high effort and play within the system, I don't want that much responsibility placed on Stewart. That second line is disgusting, and is a line that I think we will see at some point this season. Might wake up Bergie to be playing with two great shooters and high energy guys. When Bergie is pissed, he's one of our best players. His performance against Nashville last year was probably the best single game effort the Blues had the entire season. He single handedly carried the Blues to 2 points in a game they had no business winning. As PocketNines has pointed out a few times, I think it's safe to say that game was the reason the Preds went out and spent a first rounder to get Paul Gaustad. They had no answer.

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01-09-2013, 06:14 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by MattyMo35 View Post
I agree with what you're saying in concept, but I would switch Oshie and Stewart. If Oshie and Backes play so well together, I don't want to split that up. They are great offensively and defensively. Stewart may have a bounce back year, in which case I'd be okay with trying him with Backes, but until he proves he's going to give high effort and play within the system, I don't want that much responsibility placed on Stewart. That second line is disgusting, and is a line that I think we will see at some point this season. Might wake up Bergie to be playing with two great shooters and high energy guys. When Bergie is pissed, he's one of our best players. His performance against Nashville last year was probably the best single game effort the Blues had the entire season. He single handedly carried the Blues to 2 points in a game they had no business winning. As PocketNines has pointed out a few times, I think it's safe to say that game was the reason the Preds went out and spent a first rounder to get Paul Gaustad. They had no answer.
Honestly, I want whatever works. That's just one option. I like McDonald and Backes together and I think they could do for Stewart what they did for D'Agostini.

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01-09-2013, 06:59 PM
  #81
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Stewart, right after the trade, went supernova playing with Backes and McDonald. If he's on this year, he'll get plenty of ice time.

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01-09-2013, 07:24 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
If Schwartz stays with the club, how do you see the roster? Seems like D'Agostini (or Stewart or someone) would almost have to be moved or else we get Schwartz sitting and watching a lot (bad for his development). And it also would wind up hurting the depth, which was a big strength last season.
I think the schedule will be compact enough that the team will end up rotating a few guys in on a regular basis to keep everyone fresh.

My guess is that we break camp with (order is not indicative of lines):

C: Backes, Berglund, Steen, Nichol
LW: McDonald, Perron, D'Agostini, Sobotka, Schwartz
RW: Oshie, Stewart, Tarasenko, Langenbrunner, Reaves

Porter is the odd-man out in this scenario, but honestly he's just a depth energy guy anyway. Cracknell could fill in just as well when the injuries hit should we lose Porter.

If something bad happens <knock on wood> and we need Jaden to step into a bigger role than expected, I think he would have an easier transition to that role is he's been practicing with the guys he would be playing with and getting the odd NHL game under his belt rather than if he had been logging bigger minutes in Peoria.


Last edited by EastonBlues22: 01-09-2013 at 08:08 PM.
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01-09-2013, 07:25 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by Celtic Note View Post
If our development of prospects in Peoria had a better track record, then I would disagree. But given the current and past direction of the team, I am not sure Peoria makes the most sense...not sure the big club does either.
I agree that there doesn't seem to be an ideal option right now. Seeing how the team handles this situation is one of my top five curiousities for the upcoming training camp.

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01-09-2013, 07:27 PM
  #84
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Unless Schwartz completely dominates and does every single thing better than D'Agostini I don't see him starting the season with the Blues. I think Porter will regain his spot

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01-09-2013, 07:49 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by CarvinSigX View Post
Stewart, right after the trade, went supernova playing with Backes and McDonald. If he's on this year, he'll get plenty of ice time.
Right after arriving, I thought he did his best at even-strength with Berglund.

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01-09-2013, 07:57 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by EastonBlues22 View Post
I think the schedule will be compact enough that the team will end up rotating a few guys in on a regular basis to keep everyone fresh.

My guess is that we break camp with (order is not indicative of lines):

C: Backes, Berglund, Steen, Sobotka
LW: McDonald, Perron, D'Agostini, Sobotka, Schwartz
RW: Oshie, Stewart, Tarasenko, Langenbrunner, Reaves

Porter is the odd-man out in this scenario, but honestly he's just a depth energy guy anyway. Cracknell could fill in just as well when the injuries hit should we lose Porter.

If something bad happens <knock on wood> and we need Jaden to step into a bigger role than expected, I think he would have an easier transition to that role is he's been practicing with the guys he would be playing with and getting the odd NHL game under his belt rather than if he had been logging bigger minutes in Peoria.
You are right about Porter, but you have forgotten about Scott Nichol.

Schwartz is the easiest one to send down, and it isn't going to be an issues with his development spending a few more weeks in Peoria. We all know that the tighter schedule, added to the fact it is the Blues, means that injuries will happen and he'll be the first one called up. I can't see Reaves or D'Agostini being sent down to make space for him.

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01-09-2013, 07:58 PM
  #87
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They moved him after awhile. He probably played with them primarily on the power play.

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01-09-2013, 08:08 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by Alklha View Post
You are right about Porter, but you have forgotten about Scott Nichol.

Schwartz is the easiest one to send down, and it isn't going to be an issues with his development spending a few more weeks in Peoria. We all know that the tighter schedule, added to the fact it is the Blues, means that injuries will happen and he'll be the first one called up. I can't see Reaves or D'Agostini being sent down to make space for him.
I listed Sobotka twice (I was intending to type Nichol as the 4th C and was wondering if I should put Sobotka there as the 5th C while doing it. Apparently my mind wasn't capable of holding both thoughts at the same time.). I'll edit the original.

It's going to be Schwartz vs Porter for my money, not Schwartz vs Reaves/D'Agostini.

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01-10-2013, 12:06 AM
  #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rumrokh View Post
If we're playing fantasy coach, I think the answer is to force more competition among the checkers instead of the scorers. The Blues' scoring lines are so good at checking, too, so why not?

And what I mean by that is that Nichol has to compete with Sobotka for the fourth line center job instead of shoving Sobotka to wing because it's a foregone conclusion that Nichol is the 4th line center. And Langenbrunner has to compete with Reaves, not scoring players.

I know the pairs and lines that Hitchcock already likes, but check out something like this:
McDonald-Backes-Stewart
Perron-Berglund-Tarasenko
Schwartz-Steen-Oshie
Reaves-Sobotka-D'Agostini
with Nichol and Langenbrunner coming in for guys who are banged up or whenever things get stale.

The advantage you have with a lineup like that is if you decide to shorten the bench, you just sit Schwartz for Sobotka and you have your shutdown line. And if Stewart is playing poorly, move up D'Agostini, who has previously looked great with McDonald and Backes.

Not that I expect this to happen, but you can absolutely use all of Schwartz, Stewart, and D'Agostini without stunting Schwartz's development or icing an inferior lineup.
I thought the 4th line looked schizophrenic when they tried this type of an experiment at the end of last season. It wasn't good at any role: scoring, energy, checking. On the other hand, when it was Porter, Reaves and Nichol/Langenbrunner/Sobotka they looked great. I just don't think D'Agostini can fit there, and his added offensive ability (his shot) doesn't enhance the role of the 4th line. I guess he could be a healthy scratch (or a non-rejuvenated Stewart) if they aren't competing. That wouldn't be too bad, but it would probably mean Schwartz would get some version of the Perron treatment (where he scratches regularly during the regular season). In truth, that's probably a good scenario for him and still enough playing time.

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01-10-2013, 12:17 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
I thought the 4th line looked schizophrenic when they tried this type of an experiment at the end of last season. It wasn't good at any role: scoring, energy, checking. On the other hand, when it was Porter, Reaves and Nichol/Langenbrunner/Sobotka they looked great. I just don't think D'Agostini can fit there, and his added offensive ability (his shot) doesn't enhance the role of the 4th line. I guess he could be a healthy scratch (or a non-rejuvenated Stewart) if they aren't competing. That wouldn't be too bad, but it would probably mean Schwartz would get some version of the Perron treatment (where he scratches regularly during the regular season). In truth, that's probably a good scenario for him and still enough playing time.
Agree with this. We need a 4th line that excels at the energy role. Sobotka, Nichol, Langenbrunner/Reaves/Porter.

As for Schwartz, I do think the Perron treatment will probably be best as well, and I expect Hitch to do just that. I think Hitch will rotate Schwartz in for guys who may not be in tip top condition. We have the depth to rotate guys and keep everyone fresh, and with the schedule, I expect Hitch to take advantage of it. If only we had a better 7th, so we could keep Jackman fresh for the playoffs.

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01-10-2013, 12:45 AM
  #91
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Originally Posted by 2 Minute Minor View Post
I thought the 4th line looked schizophrenic when they tried this type of an experiment at the end of last season. It wasn't good at any role: scoring, energy, checking. On the other hand, when it was Porter, Reaves and Nichol/Langenbrunner/Sobotka they looked great. I just don't think D'Agostini can fit there, and his added offensive ability (his shot) doesn't enhance the role of the 4th line. I guess he could be a healthy scratch (or a non-rejuvenated Stewart) if they aren't competing. That wouldn't be too bad, but it would probably mean Schwartz would get some version of the Perron treatment (where he scratches regularly during the regular season). In truth, that's probably a good scenario for him and still enough playing time.
That's sensible and ultimately why you have Nichol and Langenbrunner, for variety and steadiness. But I don't remember a fourth line like that. It was always Nichol in there. I remember times when it was Sobotka/Reaves-Nichol-D'Agostini and so forth, but Sobotka was basically never the fourth line center without Nichol or Langenbrunner in there.

I'm all in favor of a line that's out there for maximum energy, but the rest of the lineup has to score to make that worthwhile. Injuries or a repeat down year for Stewart could make the Blues so low-scoring that I'd rather put some puck skill on every single line. If Backes and Oshie are busy checking a top line and you have a rookie night from Tarasenko or a quiet night from Stewart, you're basically living and dying by your powerplay. Especially when they're paying so much attention to conditioning, why not roll four lines with depth like that?

As I've said before, I want whatever works, even if it's counter-intuitive. This is just one of many examples of how the lineup could work with Schwartz without having to trade one of Stewart or D'Agostini.

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01-10-2013, 01:12 AM
  #92
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Super-thread created for further training camp discussion.

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