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Old
04-13-2013, 10:29 PM
  #251
DatsyukToZetterberg
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
Even then, we'd have to find a team in the top 5 who is willing to trade quality for quantity AND needs something other than center for this draft. The problem is few GMs will do quantity for quality and even fewer will think they don't have room for a center with that top 5 pick.
Yep I proposed both deals on the Flyers board and while it isn't an indicator of what the value really is they said no to both. They said that Phoenix fans were wiling to give up Rundblad+their 1st round pick for the Flyer's pick, I guess the equivalent for us to match it would be Smith+1st but I think Smith holds a lot more value then Rundblad. I'm not sure if I would do Smith+13-18th overall pick for the 5th/6th overall pick. While Smith hasn't been a world beater he has shown flashes of why he has top pairing upside. They also mentioned that the Flyer's are quite high on Nurse and would pick him with their pick if he was available.

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04-14-2013, 06:12 AM
  #252
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Originally Posted by joe89 View Post
Maybe Monahan? Just a feeling of mine, though.
Canadian two-way C's almost never drop.

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04-14-2013, 06:44 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Canadian two-way C's almost never drop.
True, but this draft could prove to be extreme. With so many good talents, there's bound to be a few missing the top10 in a rather surprising fashion.

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04-14-2013, 10:09 AM
  #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InjuredChoker View Post
Canadian two-way C's almost never drop.
Didn't Couturier drop from what he was projected?

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04-14-2013, 11:16 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
Didn't Couturier drop from what he was projected?
Well, the problem with him was that GMs didn't see him as two-way C. In a sense that they didn't think he would have the offensive upside. Defense is already excellent but offense isn't there yet. Not that he's been given much of a chance.

But you're correct, I think he was battling even for 1st overall at some point during that season. At least based on speculation.

Couts' final rankings on some notable lists.

THN:4
ISS:4
CS:6
Pronman:2
THW:4
TSR:4
Button:7

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04-14-2013, 11:21 AM
  #256
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
Yep I proposed both deals on the Flyers board and while it isn't an indicator of what the value really is they said no to both. They said that Phoenix fans were wiling to give up Rundblad+their 1st round pick for the Flyer's pick, I guess the equivalent for us to match it would be Smith+1st but I think Smith holds a lot more value then Rundblad. I'm not sure if I would do Smith+13-18th overall pick for the 5th/6th overall pick. While Smith hasn't been a world beater he has shown flashes of why he has top pairing upside. They also mentioned that the Flyer's are quite high on Nurse and would pick him with their pick if he was available.
I don't think Smith holds more value than Rundblad, let alone a lot.

I would absolutely trade Smith + our 1st this year and possibly something else (the rights to Jensen? a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th in 2014?) for a pick that lands us either Barkov or Lindholm.

The way I see it, Lindholm/Barkov will be ready after 2 years. What is our defense going to look like after 2 years? With Ericsson's arrival, Kindl's development (particularly his offense) and the addition of DeKeyser, Kronwall/Ericsson/DeKeyser/Kindl is a solid top 4. We'd also still have Lashoff locked up, Sproul/Ouellet will each have had 2 AHL seasons under their belt, Backman will have at least 1, and we'll know if Almqvist has NHL ability, parhaps Marchenko too.

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04-14-2013, 11:23 AM
  #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
Even then, we'd have to find a team in the top 5 who is willing to trade quality for quantity AND needs something other than center for this draft. The problem is few GMs will do quantity for quality and even fewer will think they don't have room for a center with that top 5 pick.
The entire trade discussion here is premised on the idea of Philly having the pick. No one else.

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04-14-2013, 11:27 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by detredWINgs View Post
I don't think Smith holds more value than Rundblad, let alone a lot.

I would absolutely trade Smith + our 1st this year and possibly something else (the rights to Jensen? a 2nd, 3rd, or 4th in 2014?) for a pick that lands us either Barkov or Lindholm.

The way I see it, Lindholm/Barkov will be ready after 2 years. What is our defense going to look like after 2 years? With Ericsson's arrival, Kindl's development (particularly his offense) and the addition of DeKeyser, Kronwall/Ericsson/DeKeyser/Kindl is a solid top 4. We'd also still have Lashoff locked up, Sproul/Ouellet will each have had 2 AHL seasons under their belt, Backman will have at least 1, and we'll know if Almqvist has NHL ability, parhaps Marchenko too.
I'd do it. I don't think Smith is going to be as good as we hoped unfortunately. But he probably still hold a lot of value to GM's.

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04-14-2013, 11:59 AM
  #259
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These hypothetical trades crack me up... Every GM in the league knows how good the top of this draft is, moving up would require a huge overpayment and Kenny just isn't going to do that. I could even see the Wings trading down again unless a guy drops to them that they REALLY like... Whether it's right or wrong, the Wings know they aren't getting a guaranteed superstar, so they might opt to take quantity over perceived quality again.

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04-14-2013, 12:21 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fabricoh View Post
Josh Morrissey is dropping like a rock and seems like a DRW type of prospect.
Bingo... Morrissey is the exact type of guy the Wings draft. It will probably take him 4 years to contribute but he has all the tools they look for.

Im surprised his name hasnt been all over this thread. Especially considering where he's positioned currently (in the scout ranking) and where the Wings will probably pick.

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04-14-2013, 06:28 PM
  #261
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Originally Posted by mindfly View Post
There's always a player who drops a lot more than one would expect... like Cam Fowler and Filip Forsberg, I wonder who this year's player will be?
i'll predict ristolainen. several finns on prospects board have said he often looks lost defensively.

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Originally Posted by The Nose View Post
I'd give a **** ton to move up into Lindholm/Barkov range.
so would i. already there is much competition among prospects for spots in NHL and AHL (tatar, nyquist, jarnkrok and dekeyser should probably be in NHL; smith probably should have been instead of trade for quincey), but none of the prospects are really amazing. imo, it would be (trying) a trade of quantity for quality.

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04-14-2013, 06:39 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Bingo... Morrissey is the exact type of guy the Wings draft. It will probably take him 4 years to contribute but he has all the tools they look for.

Im surprised his name hasnt been all over this thread. Especially considering where he's positioned currently (in the scout ranking) and where the Wings will probably pick.
I wouldn't mind that, but he's:

1. a defenseman, which is our deepest position by far on both the NHL team and the prospect system

2. Listed as 5'11. I know Kronwall is 5'11, but they can't all be Kronwalls and a guy at 5'11 is by default a longer shot.

I'd really like to get a center with some size and I think there will be one available at 15 or so. I know I'm a broken record, but I really like Wennberg or Gauthier at that spot. I think C is increasingly a need for Detroit with Fil and Datsyuk potentially out the door soon and nobody looking great beyond Jarnkrok and maybe Sheahan.

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04-15-2013, 09:44 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Bingo... Morrissey is the exact type of guy the Wings draft. It will probably take him 4 years to contribute but he has all the tools they look for.

Im surprised his name hasnt been all over this thread. Especially considering where he's positioned currently (in the scout ranking) and where the Wings will probably pick.
Surprised? You shouldn't be. Morrissey provides nothing that the Wings don't already have in spades at all levels of the organization. It would be borderline irresponsible for them not to take advantage of all the potential top 6 forward talent likely remaining in the 10-20 spots...unless you actually think the Wings are going to be able to maintain the "over-ripening" approach for the next 3-5 years.

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04-15-2013, 10:01 PM
  #264
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guru Meditation View Post
I wouldn't mind that, but he's:

1. a defenseman, which is our deepest position by far on both the NHL team and the prospect system

2. Listed as 5'11. I know Kronwall is 5'11, but they can't all be Kronwalls and a guy at 5'11 is by default a longer shot.

I'd really like to get a center with some size and I think there will be one available at 15 or so. I know I'm a broken record, but I really like Wennberg or Gauthier at that spot. I think C is increasingly a need for Detroit with Fil and Datsyuk potentially out the door soon and nobody looking great beyond Jarnkrok and maybe Sheahan.
Agreed.

The draft is a crapshoot to a center extent, so inherent in the strategy is simply increasing your statistical chances of producing a quality NHLer at any one position. Right now, it looks like the Wings chances of producing a quality center (i.e. top 6 center capable of producing 50+ points) start and end with Jarnkrok.

Unless someone drops like a rock into the mid-zone, Wennberg would be my #1 choice.

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04-15-2013, 10:19 PM
  #265
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeerLeagueAllStar View Post
These hypothetical trades crack me up... Every GM in the league knows how good the top of this draft is, moving up would require a huge overpayment and Kenny just isn't going to do that. I could even see the Wings trading down again unless a guy drops to them that they REALLY like... Whether it's right or wrong, the Wings know they aren't getting a guaranteed superstar, so they might opt to take quantity over perceived quality again.
Moving up from like 15-17 to 9/10 wouldn't necessarily cost a lot, as indicated in previous drafts.

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04-15-2013, 10:27 PM
  #266
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Petes2424 View Post
Bingo... Morrissey is the exact type of guy the Wings draft. It will probably take him 4 years to contribute but he has all the tools they look for.

Im surprised his name hasnt been all over this thread. Especially considering where he's positioned currently (in the scout ranking) and where the Wings will probably pick.
People won't like it right away because he is yet another D-man. But Morrissey has a ton of gifts, if they moved some of the depth at that position either near the draft or at some point afterwards during the season, people would probably come around in a big way. Kind touches triple digits with his shot and plays a robust game already checking in well over 200lbs. If he slides he could very well be taken as BPA and I won't hate it. It would however mean somebody should be moved pretty quickly in terms of our prospects, but we would be dealing from a position of ridiculous strength. If they draft Morrissey the might send a D-man from Canada to the WJC in back to back years.

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04-15-2013, 10:28 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Cyborg Yzerman View Post
Moving up from like 15-17 to 9/10 wouldn't necessarily cost a lot, as indicated in previous drafts.
It also basically doesn't improve your return historically. This is a deep first round with several options, if they don't love who they are moving up for and I mean basically rate him a top 5 talent that kind of trade is a poor one when just looking at the metrics. One you drop out of the top 5 there is very little difference in the quality player you get in 6-20 at least historically.

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04-15-2013, 10:54 PM
  #268
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Personally, I would just love to watch a draft where the Wings were "the team" that made the moves to get said player. They usually just drop down(not that its bad) but going for gold, dealing some players/assets could be just the thing this team needs. Show the rest of the team that they are willing to make that move. Th

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04-15-2013, 11:56 PM
  #269
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Hmm. I had read that the Wings have scouted Bo Horvat extensively, and now it seems that his stock is rising quite a bit (ISS has him at #10). I could see the Wings taking him.

It could be a fun meme, too. Bo knows shooting. Bo knows passing. Bo knows terrible giveaways. Or something.

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04-17-2013, 07:34 AM
  #270
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Here's an interview with H.Andersson regarding scouting and the draft: http://u18worlds2013.iihf.com/en/news/andersson/

I'm hoping the U18's will be available online. There are some very interesting guys I'd like to see play before the draft.

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04-17-2013, 12:00 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by ChadS View Post
Here's an interview with H.Andersson regarding scouting and the draft: http://u18worlds2013.iihf.com/en/news/andersson/

I'm hoping the U18's will be available online. There are some very interesting guys I'd like to see play before the draft.
Thanks for the link, nice read ,although nothing you didn't know before

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04-17-2013, 08:16 PM
  #272
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draft

regardless of their draft rank the wings need a forward ...in my opinion one of these players ...if one of these players are available when the wings select ..

MAX DOMI :Talented playmaker isn't the biggest player on the ice, but never backs down from physical play

KERBY RYCHEL :speedy forward ,he possesses solid skills, and is solid on PP, PK and in the faceoff circle

RYAN HARTMAN :Versatile offensive talent can play center/wing, excels at speed on forecheck and loves physical play

BO HORVAT :Gritty power forward skates hard, is aggressive offensively and wins battles at the net for loose pucks

ANTHONY MANTHA :skates well for his size (6-4, 190) and has a goal-scorer's mentality

FREDERICK GAUTHIER :6-foot-5 center who can dictate the play and work in any situation

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04-17-2013, 08:35 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by djdan6215 View Post
regardless of their draft rank the wings need a forward ...in my opinion one of these players ...if one of these players are available when the wings select ..

MAX DOMI :Talented playmaker isn't the biggest player on the ice, but never backs down from physical play

KERBY RYCHEL :speedy forward ,he possesses solid skills, and is solid on PP, PK and in the faceoff circle

RYAN HARTMAN :Versatile offensive talent can play center/wing, excels at speed on forecheck and loves physical play

BO HORVAT :Gritty power forward skates hard, is aggressive offensively and wins battles at the net for loose pucks

ANTHONY MANTHA :skates well for his size (6-4, 190) and has a goal-scorer's mentality

FREDERICK GAUTHIER :6-foot-5 center who can dictate the play and work in any situation
Some criticisms I've heard of these guys (to play devil's advocate):

Domi is undersized and would be a poor fit in Detroit at this point

I've heard awful things about Rychel. There's a poster here at HF who thinks he's not an NHL player, and I have a friend who's an OHL buff and he thinks about the same.

Hartman is gritty, but might not be a scoring line forward and is under 6'0. Undersized checking winger in the first? Great character though.

I've heard Horvat might not be a sure thing as a scoring line player.

Supposedly the major knock on Mantha is he sometimes has a compete level of zero, and you don't know when he'll show up. Might be similar to a Franzen.

and Gauthier, as much as I want the Wings to pick him, might not have scoring line upside, which is what the Wings really need this year from the draft.

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04-17-2013, 08:42 PM
  #274
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I'd cry for a week straight if Mr. Clutch slipped to us, lol.

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04-17-2013, 09:22 PM
  #275
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I'd cry for a week straight if Mr. Clutch slipped to us, lol.
Who's Mr.Clutch?

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