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Old
05-23-2013, 06:35 PM
  #426
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
If we end up beating the Hawks we'll be picking 27th in the draft, unless we go onto win the cup in which case we'd be 30th. If we're picking there I really don't know who we take. There are a ton of player from 20-40 that we could take and I wouldn't mind it at all. I think the #1 player for us to draft would be Shea Theodore, he seems to have some pretty nice skill and offensive potential, Zykov if he's still on the board, maybe Marko Dano, I also wouldn't be overly upset if we trade back and picked up an extra 2nd/3rd. I'm really looking forward to this draft,

If we do lose out to the Hawks I hope we either trade up for Shinkaruk or hope that Domi/Wennberg fall to us.
Don't really want Marko Dano unless it is in the third. He has a lot of skill, but the jury is still very much out on him and he is a small guy.

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05-24-2013, 10:11 AM
  #427
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
If we end up beating the Hawks we'll be picking 27th in the draft, unless we go onto win the cup in which case we'd be 30th. If we're picking there I really don't know who we take. There are a ton of player from 20-40 that we could take and I wouldn't mind it at all. I think the #1 player for us to draft would be Shea Theodore, he seems to have some pretty nice skill and offensive potential, Zykov if he's still on the board, maybe Marko Dano, I also wouldn't be overly upset if we trade back and picked up an extra 2nd/3rd. I'm really looking forward to this draft,

If we do lose out to the Hawks I hope we either trade up for Shinkaruk or hope that Domi/Wennberg fall to us.
I think if we land in the WCF, I would try to trade back and grab MTL's two early second round picks. I am not convinced that there is a ton of difference between players taken at the tail end of the first round and those taken in the top half of the second.

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05-24-2013, 12:57 PM
  #428
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Originally Posted by Rzombo4 prez View Post
I think if we land in the WCF, I would try to trade back and grab MTL's two early second round picks. I am not convinced that there is a ton of difference between players taken at the tail end of the first round and those taken in the top half of the second.
You won't get that extra second rounder under pick 40

Let's say montreal has a 33rd overall, wings get that and maybe the 60th overall for allowing montreal to take the 27th...

It's not like you get 33rd and 35th for allowing them to move up a few spots in the last 1st round spots.

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05-24-2013, 01:05 PM
  #429
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What would you guys think of adding a poll to this thread with the options:

Trade up
Stand pat
Trade down

?

I'd be interested in seeing where this board stands. I have seen a lot of stand pat/ trade up posts, just curious is anyone thinks trading down is viable,and why.

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05-24-2013, 03:46 PM
  #430
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mindfly View Post
Are you also in the boat who wants to go out here and get rewarded with the 18th overall?


And actually, conference finalists, 4 teams, are rewarded with 27th, 28th (EC and WC finalist losers), 29th pick (SC final loser), 30th (sc winner)
My bad, I meant 27-30, my math was just wrong.

I'm okay with qualifying for the conference finals, personally. It'll be good for Nyquist, Andersson, Brunner, Smith, and Kindl, imo.

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05-24-2013, 03:48 PM
  #431
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Sunshine View Post
What would you guys think of adding a poll to this thread with the options:

Trade up
Stand pat
Trade down

?

I'd be interested in seeing where this board stands. I have seen a lot of stand pat/ trade up posts, just curious is anyone thinks trading down is viable,and why.
Personally, speaking, I'd love to trade up. Sean Monahan is still my favorite prospect on the board, but obviously, it'll be difficult to acquire a pick for where he is slated to go. Also, Holland never trades up. Adding the options is a good idea though.

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05-24-2013, 03:54 PM
  #432
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Sunshine View Post
What would you guys think of adding a poll to this thread with the options:

Trade up
Stand pat
Trade down

?

I'd be interested in seeing where this board stands. I have seen a lot of stand pat/ trade up posts, just curious is anyone thinks trading down is viable,and why.
I think that once you get to the late 1st the guys picked from 25-50, in this draft especially, are all pretty much equal in value. If the guy want is taking and you feel that the next guy on your list can be taking 7 or 10 spots later it makes sense to trade back & pick up another asset.

I think I read somewhere that the % of a late 1st producing an NHLer & a mid 2nd producing an NHLer is within a couple of % points. You're pretty much giving yourself double the chances of getting an NHL player by trading back from the late 1st into the 2nd.

While we have a stacked pool we're still lacking that Elite, blue chip prospect. The problem is picking in the late teens to late 20s doesn't give us a very good chance of drafting one. You have to be in the top 10, some drafts the top 5, to get a player with elite potential. With that in mind I think if the Wings miss their guy they won't hesitate to trade back.

They've traded back in 06, 09 & 11.

In 06 we traded the 29th pick for the 41st & the 47th pick. We got Matthias & Emmerton for Summers, imo it was a good move trading back. The way I look at it is Matthias+Emmerton > Summers, nobody else with any kind of potential was picked in between those picks.

In 09 we traded the 29th overall for the 32nd & the 75th overall. We ended up passing on Despres, Ashton & Koskinen. I'd only take Despres over Ferraro but Ferraro still has a chance to become a middle six guy for us. The 75th overall pick was Nestrasil & while he has some potential I don't think he'll get there. Of the guys we could have taken I think in terms of value it looks like this Despres>Ferraro+Nestrasil>Ashton>=Koskinen. I think if Nestrasil had developed we'd have gotten the better deal.

Lastly in 11 we traded the 24th overall pick for the 35th & 48th overall picks. We picked Jurco & Ouellet with those picks & there isn't a player between 24 & 34 I'd trade this duo of players for. Maybe Saad but we all know Saad wouldn't be in the NHL with the Wings.

So in the 3 years we've traded back we ended up getting better players then the team picking in our spot 3/3 times & the only time we didn't get the best total value from a deal was in 09 when we passed on Despres. 11 is still up for debate but right now I wouldn't trade our combo of players for anyone drafted between 24-34.

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05-24-2013, 04:22 PM
  #433
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I hope we get the 30th pick this summer.

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05-24-2013, 04:38 PM
  #434
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If we make the WCF (and it looks like we will), I think the Wings will trade down and get another pick. Hopefully they'll swing for the fences on high potential centermen.

In response to this:
Quote:
I'd be interested in seeing where this board stands. I have seen a lot of stand pat/ trade up posts, just curious is anyone thinks trading down is viable,and why.
I think trading up would be great, but teams are going to ask for a fortune. Our first round pick isn't worth much right now. It would likely be Tatar+First+something else to get anywhere we'd want to be (early teens). Hell, teams might not even think that's enough. It's possible they could want Mrazek+first. Those guys are the big ticket items for other teams, and I don't think Holland is willing to move them.

I'm also not particularly sold on the quality of the players who will be left at 27-30. I think players of a similar quality would be around in the mid second round.


Last edited by Guru Meditation: 05-24-2013 at 04:45 PM.
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05-24-2013, 05:27 PM
  #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eternal Sunshine View Post
What would you guys think of adding a poll to this thread with the options:

Trade up
Stand pat
Trade down

?

I'd be interested in seeing where this board stands. I have seen a lot of stand pat/ trade up posts, just curious is anyone thinks trading down is viable,and why.
In general I would say stand pat no matter the pick in the 1st round, but if you could get two top45 picks for the 27-30th(if we get there) pick I would probably listen. I don't see a huge dropoff, if at all, in talent between really late first and early second.

My stance is to trade some of the many prospects getting up in age(ELC ending) and use the draft to restock the pool, rather than trading away draft picks.

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05-24-2013, 06:04 PM
  #436
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
I think that once you get to the late 1st the guys picked from 25-50, in this draft especially, are all pretty much equal in value. If the guy want is taking and you feel that the next guy on your list can be taking 7 or 10 spots later it makes sense to trade back & pick up another asset.

I think I read somewhere that the % of a late 1st producing an NHLer & a mid 2nd producing an NHLer is within a couple of % points. You're pretty much giving yourself double the chances of getting an NHL player by trading back from the late 1st into the 2nd.

While we have a stacked pool we're still lacking that Elite, blue chip prospect. The problem is picking in the late teens to late 20s doesn't give us a very good chance of drafting one. You have to be in the top 10, some drafts the top 5, to get a player with elite potential. With that in mind I think if the Wings miss their guy they won't hesitate to trade back.

They've traded back in 06, 09 & 11.

In 06 we traded the 29th pick for the 41st & the 47th pick. We got Matthias & Emmerton for Summers, imo it was a good move trading back. The way I look at it is Matthias+Emmerton > Summers, nobody else with any kind of potential was picked in between those picks.

In 09 we traded the 29th overall for the 32nd & the 75th overall. We ended up passing on Despres, Ashton & Koskinen. I'd only take Despres over Ferraro but Ferraro still has a chance to become a middle six guy for us. The 75th overall pick was Nestrasil & while he has some potential I don't think he'll get there. Of the guys we could have taken I think in terms of value it looks like this Despres>Ferraro+Nestrasil>Ashton>=Koskinen. I think if Nestrasil had developed we'd have gotten the better deal.

Lastly in 11 we traded the 24th overall pick for the 35th & 48th overall picks. We picked Jurco & Ouellet with those picks & there isn't a player between 24 & 34 I'd trade this duo of players for. Maybe Saad but we all know Saad wouldn't be in the NHL with the Wings.

So in the 3 years we've traded back we ended up getting better players then the team picking in our spot 3/3 times & the only time we didn't get the best total value from a deal was in 09 when we passed on Despres. 11 is still up for debate but right now I wouldn't trade our combo of players for anyone drafted between 24-34.
Good breakdown. Yeah, the Jurco + XO trade down was epic. I used to be totally on board with standing pat, or even trading up if we could (KH would likely never do this.), but now that it looks like our pick is sliding down the board, it would likely be best to get 2 top ~50 picks rather than 1 top ~30 pick.

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05-24-2013, 08:47 PM
  #437
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Red Wings first (4) picks in 2013 Draft

Here are my picks for the first four rounds of this year's draft. I'm assuming they will be picking around 20-25. Let me know what you think. Here we go:

Round 1 LW Valentin Zykov
Round 2 D Ian McCoshen
Round 3 LW Zach Sanford
Round 4 C Yan Pavel Laplante

My best pick that came through last year was Ryan Sproul.

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05-24-2013, 08:48 PM
  #438
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DatsyukToZetterberg View Post
Lastly in 11 we traded the 24th overall pick for the 35th & 48th overall picks. We picked Jurco & Ouellet with those picks & there isn't a player between 24 & 34 I'd trade this duo of players for. Maybe Saad but we all know Saad wouldn't be in the NHL with the Wings.
I was actually very disappointed when I was watching this draft live, because at the time I really thought Puempel was going to be a big time goal scorer. Which was something I definitely thought was a big need for us, and something we could have used. But now looking back at it, I would say we made out okay

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05-25-2013, 02:34 AM
  #439
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I would rather trade down than up. It would take a whole hell of a lot to move up to where the potential reward is worth the risk.Give up established prospects and picks for some guy that could bust completely? No thanks. Hols onto what's in our system and pad it with another couple second round picks.

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05-25-2013, 03:14 AM
  #440
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Originally Posted by Syckle78 View Post
I would rather trade down than up. It would take a whole hell of a lot to move up to where the potential reward is worth the risk.Give up established prospects and picks for some guy that could bust completely? No thanks. Hols onto what's in our system and pad it with another couple second round picks.
It's hard to say which is the right decision unless you really know what you want. That's why I can't really weigh in, without knowing the players the Wings want and where they will likely fall in the draft.

One of the more memorable trade up and down scenarios is in 2003. The Ducks acquired the 28th overall selection in the 2003 NHL Entry Draft from the Dallas Stars in exchange for the 36th and 54th overall selections in the 2003 Draft.

That 28th pick was Corey Perry. I'd say that was a great move for them.

However, the Stars leveraged the 36th pick into Loui Eriksson. The later pick would be B. J. Crombeen, who they would lose on waivers.

As a bit of trivia, Eaves was taken with the 29th pick right after Perry. So it just goes to show how the Stars could have easily missed out on a franchise winger they clearly didn't covet, but were lucky to break even by getting a guy they liked in Eriksson.

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05-25-2013, 04:44 AM
  #441
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Trade Quincey for MTL 1st
















































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05-25-2013, 12:33 PM
  #442
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Originally Posted by Bench View Post
It's hard to say which is the right decision unless you really know what you want. That's why I can't really weigh in, without knowing the players the Wings want and where they will likely fall in the draft.

One of the more memorable trade up and down scenarios is in 2003. The Ducks acquired the 28th overall selection in the 2003 NHL Entry Draft from the Dallas Stars in exchange for the 36th and 54th overall selections in the 2003 Draft.

That 28th pick was Corey Perry. I'd say that was a great move for them.

However, the Stars leveraged the 36th pick into Loui Eriksson. The later pick would be B. J. Crombeen, who they would lose on waivers.

As a bit of trivia, Eaves was taken with the 29th pick right after Perry. So it just goes to show how the Stars could have easily missed out on a franchise winger they clearly didn't covet, but were lucky to break even by getting a guy they liked in Eriksson.
What you say is true. I just remember seeing a break down of draft positions and likelyhood of becoming a standout NHLer. After the top 5 it so it really is a crap shoot. To me it's not worth the risk moving up into to 10 to 20 area because the likelihood of it paying off isn't any better than taking two shots in the second and we wouldn't have to gamble assets.

The funniest part of Mindfly 's obsession with a higher pick is that those mid first picks almost never develop into elite players.

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05-25-2013, 02:20 PM
  #443
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Zykov really intrigues me. At this point it's either him or Duclair. With pieces to deal though, we might see Holland move up or acquire another 1st rounder... Or get more 2nd rounders without dealing our first rounder. Holland stuck with holding onto the 1st rounder during the deadline. I can't see him going back on his word and dealing it at the draft.

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05-25-2013, 02:25 PM
  #444
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Things change. At the time of the deadline our for First could of turned out to be pretty high. He didn't know the actual value he would be dealing or if we would even make the playoffs. I wouldn't call him trading what amounts to an all together different asset at the draft as going back on his word.

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05-25-2013, 02:36 PM
  #445
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I don't care if Holland trades up or trades down, I just want him to draft the next Datsyuk, Zetterberg, and Lidstrom. I don't care if he picks them with his 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounder or his 5th, 6th and 7th rounds... just draft them!!!

In Holland we trust!

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05-25-2013, 03:02 PM
  #446
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draft

valentin zykov he`s awesome big forward great hands big shot ...but probably not available at the 27 rank if the wings beat the hawks ....

best players available at the 27 is probably

forward :
jt compher
adam erne
ryan hartman not sure if available
kerby rychel not sure
frederik gauthier not sure
morgan klimchuk

defense:
josh morrissey
robert hagg
shea theodore


Last edited by djdan6215: 05-25-2013 at 03:17 PM.
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05-25-2013, 03:33 PM
  #447
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Originally Posted by Eternal Sunshine View Post
Good breakdown. Yeah, the Jurco + XO trade down was epic. I used to be totally on board with standing pat, or even trading up if we could (KH would likely never do this.), but now that it looks like our pick is sliding down the board, it would likely be best to get 2 top ~50 picks rather than 1 top ~30 pick.
Sweet avatar, I was hoping mods wouldn't edit my thread title back when I created this:
http://hfboards.hockeysfuture.com/sh....php?t=1276175

Think Fugu will change it back?

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05-25-2013, 06:55 PM
  #448
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Originally Posted by mindfly View Post
You won't get that extra second rounder under pick 40

Let's say montreal has a 33rd overall, wings get that and maybe the 60th overall for allowing montreal to take the 27th...

It's not like you get 33rd and 35th for allowing them to move up a few spots in the last 1st round spots.
yup you are right, I don't know what I was thinking. I am not even sure the 18th would get us those two picks. I found this interesting, but don't know how accurate it is.

http://www.broadstreethockey.com/201...lue-trading-up

I am still willing to trade down if we make the WCF


Last edited by Rzombo4 prez: 05-25-2013 at 07:01 PM.
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05-25-2013, 09:55 PM
  #449
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So if we make it into the conference finals, does that mean we'll be picking somewhere between 27 and 30?

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05-25-2013, 09:59 PM
  #450
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Originally Posted by snailderby View Post
So if we make it into the conference finals, does that mean we'll be picking somewhere between 27 and 30?
Yes, if I'm not mistaken 27th and 28th go to the losers of the conference finals, 29th goes to the SCF loser, and 30th goes to the SC winner.

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