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Creative solutions to gun violence in the U.S. II

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Old
01-06-2013, 10:58 AM
  #126
Vtwin
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Originally Posted by ChicagoBlues View Post
Boy, you better get the jump and aim true on that intruder or you are a dead man. This woman was probably trained and knew how to use it. I'm guessing that you have, at least some, training.

This person also had some luck on her side. Fact: Most bullets never reach their intended target.

But you will never know how you will react in real life when the poo poo really starts flying.

Good luck!
I rest my case. No real knowledge or experience. Just media stirred emotion.

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01-06-2013, 11:00 AM
  #127
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The odds that you'll kill an intruder with your gun are 12 times lower than that someone in your family will be killed because you have a gun in your home.

There's a gun in your home because you don't realize how dangerous that is.
And the odds that you will smash your thumb with a hammer are a hundred times higher for those households that have hammers in them than don't.

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01-06-2013, 11:14 AM
  #128
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How about paper cut odds? Seems pretty relevant

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01-06-2013, 11:21 AM
  #129
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How about paper cut odds? Seems pretty relevant
You are right that it is absolutely irrelevant in the discussion of gun control.

Exactly as irrelevant as Ugmos unsupported stat.

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01-06-2013, 11:34 AM
  #130
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As you have just proven, you can read something and interpret it however you want to. Reminds me a lot of the second amendment..

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01-06-2013, 12:20 PM
  #131
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As you have just proven, you can read something and interpret it however you want to. Reminds me a lot of the second amendment..
Read this.

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Perhaps the most popular statement made in the case against guns, is that a gun kept in the home is more likely to kill a family member than an intruder. This stems from a 1986 article by Arthur L. Kellermann and Donald T. Reay which was published in the New England Journal of Medicine. Although several aspects of Kellermann’s work have drawn criticism from peers, it may indeed be true that a gun is more likely to kill a person in the home than an outside invader, especially considering that more than half of all lethal gunshots are self-inflicted. But that doesn’t mean guns are more likely to harm their owner than protect them. In fact, guns are used to defend their owners more than a million times each year, according to Criminologist Gary Kleck. Unlike Kellerman’s study, Kleck examined all reported incidents involving guns instead of just those resulting in fatalities. What he found was that when guns are used defensively, the overwhelming majority of the time they are never fired. Because no one is killed, these incidents generally were never considered by researchers such as Kellerman. If they were, he would have found that a gun kept in the home is twenty-seven times more likely to stop an attacker than it is to harm anyone—including the attacker.

Contrary to the claims of many who support gun ownerships, the statements made by those who oppose it are not all “bogus,” but neither are they undeniably true or universally applicable to all arguments. Guns are a complex issue. While we certainly have more of them, and more murders involving them than other countries, the number of privately owned guns continues to increase while the number of murders committed with them continues to drop. And while people use guns to kill themselves more often than they use anything else, there’s no guarantee that anyone who died from a self-inflicted gunshot wouldn’t have likely suffered a slower, more painful and equally lethal death in the absence of a firearm. And finally, the chances of a gun being used to harm a family are incredibly low, especially compared to the chances it will be used to protect one.
http://greywinn.hubpages.com/hub/Gun...Are-Not-Simple

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01-06-2013, 01:15 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Vtwin View Post
You are right that it is absolutely irrelevant in the discussion of gun control.

Exactly as irrelevant as Ugmos unsupported stat.
Ain't nothing unsupported about my stat. I posted the link to the study here a couple of days ago.

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01-06-2013, 01:38 PM
  #133
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In before random HF poster googles Gary Kleck and attempts to discredit years of research in 2 minutes.

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01-06-2013, 01:42 PM
  #134
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Ain't nothing unsupported about my stat. I posted the link to the study here a couple of days ago.

The study that is discredited in the link I provided. The link that includes links to its sources. FBI, BATF etc etc etc.


Hence the comment that your stats have a much relevance to the discussion as the 100% of hammers stat.

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01-06-2013, 04:47 PM
  #135
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I rest my case. No real knowledge or experience. Just media stirred emotion.
You have no clue wtf you are talking about. Rest your case? Dude, you are a joke. You use emptiness to discredit me.

Fuc k ing loser.

It is amazing that *******s like you claim to be all-American patriots and all that, but when it comes down to it you disrespect the real deal.

In your twisted narrow world a combat veteran cannot possibly be a progressive liberal.

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01-06-2013, 05:33 PM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Vtwin View Post
The study that is discredited in the link I provided. The link that includes links to its sources. FBI, BATF etc etc etc.


Hence the comment that your stats have a much relevance to the discussion as the 100% of hammers stat.
Man you sure are a passionate gun advocate...Holy hell it seems like all 200+ post you have made have been in this thread...Not knocking you in any way just thinking wow this guy has some passion about his guns.

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01-06-2013, 05:36 PM
  #137
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Hey those cans aren't going to shoot themselves

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01-06-2013, 05:55 PM
  #138
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Originally Posted by Vtwin View Post
The study that is discredited in the link I provided. The link that includes links to its sources. FBI, BATF etc etc etc.


Hence the comment that your stats have a much relevance to the discussion as the 100% of hammers stat.

I don't think you understand the definition of "discredited." Nothing in your link discredits the stat.

The second paragraph in your link is particularly ridiculous. So guns are successful 90 percent of the time when used for suicides as well as "the most lethal" way to kill oneself, but everyone would succeed anyway without a gun? That makes zero sense.

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01-06-2013, 05:56 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by jarmoismyhero View Post
Man you sure are a passionate gun advocate...Holy hell it seems like all 200+ post you have made have been in this thread...Not knocking you in any way just thinking wow this guy has some passion about his guns.
I'm knocking him. Typical gun nut who doesn't give a crap that his hobby facilitates the deaths of tens of thousands of other people.

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01-06-2013, 06:17 PM
  #140
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I think a lot of the people who has posted in this thread should read about freedom. Espacilly the gun lovers. There is not just one side to it, freedom or not freedom. Ever heard about positive and negative freedom? You give one part of your freedom away, for another kind of freedom. For example, you give up your right to own M4A1s and AK47s so that people cannot obtain them and shoot a bunch of kids. Get it? Just becuse there would be a ban on those kind of weapon, does not just mean that the goverment is taking away your freedom. They are also giving you and everbody else, another kind of freedom.

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01-06-2013, 06:24 PM
  #141
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Question for anybody who has the answer...I thought I heard somewhere recently that Justice Roberts made some comments in relation to the 2nd ammendment that were not to popular with the gun crowd. Does anyone know if this is the cas? If so is there a link to what he actually said?

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01-06-2013, 06:27 PM
  #142
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I'm knocking him. Typical gun nut who doesn't give a crap that his hobby facilitates the deaths of tens of thousands of other people.
I think its great your knocking him...I think it good to have people who are anti-gun an passionate about it...Makes for good reading..

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01-06-2013, 06:52 PM
  #143
Ilkka Sinisalo
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Originally Posted by Vtwin View Post
And the odds that you will smash your thumb with a hammer are a hundred times higher for those households that have hammers in them than don't.

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01-06-2013, 11:39 PM
  #144
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vtwin View Post
And the odds that you will smash your thumb with a hammer are a hundred times higher for those households that have hammers in them than don't.
And the difference between smashing your thumb with a hammer and shooting yourself with a gun is...

C'mon, it's not hard.

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01-06-2013, 11:43 PM
  #145
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If the founding fathers wanted us to have unlimited access to hammers they would have given us an equivalent of the second amendment for carpentry tools

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01-07-2013, 12:13 AM
  #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vtwin View Post
And the odds that you will smash your thumb with a hammer are a hundred times higher for those households that have hammers in them than don't.
That's a poor parallel, because you're using the hammer on yourself, even if it's accidental mishap. It's not you who is normally injured or killed by having a gun in the home over an intruder, it's one of your loved ones. Or at least some one cohabiting with you.

Ironically you're probably more likely to commit a successful suicide with a handgun in the house too. I wonder how many people have successfully committed suicide with a hammer?

I have no problem with people who are so passionate about their guns and the 2nd Amendment, and want to make an argument for them/it. But at least have the guts to say "it is what it is", or it's just a horrible side-effect of the nature of things in this country. Or, you don't even care, at least that I can understand. But to draw parallels between cars, knives, and hammers as if every inanimate object especially tools are equal, is just silly.

I know I worked with tools the vast majority of my life, and a shovel is not a excavator, even though they both dig holes. That's why you need a license, insurance, bonding, and a whole host of other things to own and run an excavator on people's properties. A shovel not so much.

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01-07-2013, 01:41 AM
  #147
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Would a system like the Swiss has in regards to guns, ever work in the U.S.?

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01-07-2013, 02:42 AM
  #148
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OK, so if I accept your argument that a gun in the house is likely to defuse the situation and cause the burglar to flee, then it would stand to reason that the burglar is going to flee for any reasonably dangerous looking gun. So let's ban the AR-15 and high capacity magazines. Deal?

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01-07-2013, 06:26 AM
  #149
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Originally Posted by ChicagoBlues View Post
Boy, you better get the jump and aim true on that intruder or you are a dead man. This woman was probably trained and knew how to use it. I'm guessing that you have, at least some, training.

This person also had some luck on her side. Fact: Most bullets never reach their intended target.

But you will never know how you will react in real life when the poo poo really starts flying.

Good luck!
I do have some training, been shooting for a long time. My brother is in the 101st (not deployed, thankfully) and we always head to the range whenever he's back in town just to brush up or show off to each other. He's really started hustling me lately though, the kid's a great shot. I'll still head to the range with buddies once every few months or so, sometimes more frequent, sometimes less.

I'm thinking just by the little information we have so far, she let those rounds go from a pretty close distance...but 5 in the face and he lives? I'm guessing 2 or 3 were grazing shots, amazing he's still breathing. Luck is always a factor

Hopefully (well, I hope I never have to use it) if it ever does come time...I just simply do react, and not think....just let the training and little experience I have take over for those few moments. I know afterwards I'll have the shakes so bad that I prolly drop the gun with a deer in the headlights stare for 10 minutes .

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01-07-2013, 07:15 AM
  #150
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Free mental health services...

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