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Old
01-28-2013, 02:16 PM
  #676
bozak911
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People were yelling at me last week for wanting:

1. Parise - Koivu - Granlund
2. Heatley - Brodziak - Bouchard
3. Clutterbuck - Cullen - Setoguchi
4. Powe - Konopka - Mitchell

Here, again, is my thought process:
1. With Parise and Koivu being the primary threats, the opponents wouldn't be double teaming Granlund. Having him up there with two puck possession players, would really do well for his development as well. He needs less responsibility at center.
2. Heatley played on the LW side all of last season, so he is pretty comfortable with that side. Brodziak already has chemistry with him, and Heatley would still not be double teamed because Bouchard is playing like he has a puck magnet in his stick. Butch setting up Heater... = win. Brodziak also carries the water defensively, but Heatley and Bouchard are not slouching away from this responsibility, either.
3. Clutterbuck and Setoguchi have about the same speed. Cullen, would basically become a pass outlet option for these two, if the opponent take the lanes away.He at least can still skate faster than average, although, only when he isn't icing his ass.
4. Mitchell is really being under utilized. He is in about the same situation as Seto, as he is faster on his skates than average.


I dunno... I still want to package Seto and Mitchell together and see what happens...

Setoguchi + Mitchell + our 2013 First for Kessel?

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Old
01-28-2013, 02:18 PM
  #677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
People were yelling at me last week for wanting:

1. Parise - Koivu - Granlund
2. Heatley - Brodziak - Bouchard
3. Clutterbuck - Cullen - Setoguchi
4. Powe - Konopka - Mitchell

Here, again, is my thought process:
1. With Parise and Koivu being the primary threats, the opponents wouldn't be double teaming Granlund. Having him up there with two puck possession players, would really do well for his development as well. He needs less responsibility at center.
2. Heatley played on the LW side all of last season, so he is pretty comfortable with that side. Brodziak already has chemistry with him, and Heatley would still not be double teamed because Bouchard is playing like he has a puck magnet in his stick. Butch setting up Heater... = win. Brodziak also carries the water defensively, but Heatley and Bouchard are not slouching away from this responsibility, either.
3. Clutterbuck and Setoguchi have about the same speed. Cullen, would basically become a pass outlet option for these two, if the opponent take the lanes away.He at least can still skate faster than average, although, only when he isn't icing his ass.
4. Mitchell is really being under utilized. He is in about the same situation as Seto, as he is faster on his skates than average.


I dunno... I still want to package Seto and Mitchell together and see what happens...

Setoguchi + Mitchell + our 2013 First for Kessel?
I could get on board with those lines, although I don't see us moving Granlund away from the center position.

And Toronto declines that offer.

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Old
01-28-2013, 02:22 PM
  #678
bozak911
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
I could get on board with those lines, although I don't see us moving Granlund away from the center position.

And Toronto declines that offer.
Dammit. I forgot the

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Old
01-28-2013, 02:33 PM
  #679
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bozak911 View Post
People were yelling at me last week for wanting:

1. Parise - Koivu - Granlund
2. Heatley - Brodziak - Bouchard
3. Clutterbuck - Cullen - Setoguchi
4. Powe - Konopka - Mitchell

Here, again, is my thought process:
1. With Parise and Koivu being the primary threats, the opponents wouldn't be double teaming Granlund. Having him up there with two puck possession players, would really do well for his development as well. He needs less responsibility at center.
2. Heatley played on the LW side all of last season, so he is pretty comfortable with that side. Brodziak already has chemistry with him, and Heatley would still not be double teamed because Bouchard is playing like he has a puck magnet in his stick. Butch setting up Heater... = win. Brodziak also carries the water defensively, but Heatley and Bouchard are not slouching away from this responsibility, either.
3. Clutterbuck and Setoguchi have about the same speed. Cullen, would basically become a pass outlet option for these two, if the opponent take the lanes away.He at least can still skate faster than average, although, only when he isn't icing his ass.
4. Mitchell is really being under utilized. He is in about the same situation as Seto, as he is faster on his skates than average.


I dunno... I still want to package Seto and Mitchell together and see what happens...

Setoguchi + Mitchell + our 2013 First for Kessel?
Those are exactly the lines I would like to see tried.

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Old
01-28-2013, 02:38 PM
  #680
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Willing to give the current 2nd line a few more games. Talent-wise it's the most talent we can put on the 2nd line without breaking up the 1st line. I'd like to see them actually use Kassian for once though. On defense I think Brodin and Gilbert have been the most steady and solid d-men so far and Scandella actually looked fairly good last night. I think Spurgeon will be back relatively soon so I'm putting him in the lineup.

Parise - Koivu - Heater
Butch - FBJ - Seto
Cullen - Brodz - Clutter
Kassian - Konopka - Mitchell
Powe

Suter - Brodin
Scandella - Gilbert
Stoner - Spurgeon

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Old
01-28-2013, 02:40 PM
  #681
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Put me in the camp that thinks it seems a bit silly to mess with the one line that is actually going well right now...

Either give the other lines time to find each other or wait until the top line goes cold before you start to throw more ideas at the problem, IMO.

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Old
01-28-2013, 02:42 PM
  #682
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Yup. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

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Old
01-28-2013, 02:42 PM
  #683
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I want that 'new' 2nd line to get some more time. They looked better (not great still) with butch on the line, and that was against one of the best teams in the NHL. While I don't want the lines to be stagnant when they're not doing well, you need to give time to have some chemistry.

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Old
01-28-2013, 03:17 PM
  #684
Jarick
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Keep the lines for tomorrow, but if they still can't do anything, swap Seto and Clutter.

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Old
01-28-2013, 04:00 PM
  #685
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Re: stacking lines,

Let's watch the Washington Capitals this year. Adam Oates feels the lines should be "balanced". So he has Ovy playing with Jay Beagle and Joey Crabb.

Caps are 1-3-1. Ovy has 2 points including 1 goal in 5 games.

Sent a tweet to Justin Bourne on the subject:

Quote:
Ever a bad idea to stack lines? Seems harder to defend 3 scorers on one line than 1 scorer on 3 lines.
His response:

Quote:
Ha, you are bang on

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Old
01-28-2013, 04:24 PM
  #686
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jarick View Post
Keep the lines for tomorrow, but if they still can't do anything, swap Seto and Clutter.
Yup.

Or Move Granny to the Wing and bring up Brodz even though Kyle has been nearly invisible this season..

I feel Cal doesnt get near enough opportunities to produce offensively. Hes not scared to shoot and crash the net and always give 100% ...

I believe he should be utilized way more than Cullen. Especially on the PP..

Quote:
Ever a bad idea to stack lines? Seems harder to defend 3 scorers on one line than 1 scorer on 3 lines.
Exactly.

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Old
01-28-2013, 04:49 PM
  #687
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A bird in hand is better than two in the bush.

Keep the first line as is.

Brodziak-Granlund-Bouchard
Clutter-Cullen-Setoguchi

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Old
01-28-2013, 04:54 PM
  #688
Dr Jan Itor
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I'm curious to see what the 2nd line, as now constructed, can do when they aren't playing against the best defensive team in the league.

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Old
01-28-2013, 04:59 PM
  #689
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
I'm curious to see what the 2nd line, as now constructed, can do when they aren't playing against the best defensive team in the league.
Should do decently against Chicago. They really don't have a whole lot of amazing-ness on the blueline. Kieth and Seabrook, obviously, but Hjmarlsson and Leddy are overrated and then they have a rotation of Oduya, Michael Rozsival, Dylan Olsen, and Steve Montador.

Don't want to be an optimist or anything, but that doesn't scream great defense to me. Hopefully the top line can pitch in another goal or two, and take on the top pairing, which would leave our new 2nd line the ability to take on the secondary defenders. Not a bad idea.

On the reverse of that, though, is that Chicago has two legitimately great scoring lines. Not sure how our defense will handle that.

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Old
01-28-2013, 05:03 PM
  #690
Dr Jan Itor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tyratoku View Post
Should do decently against Chicago. They really don't have a whole lot of amazing-ness on the blueline. Kieth and Seabrook, obviously, but Hjmarlsson and Leddy are overrated and then they have a rotation of Oduya, Michael Rozsival, Dylan Olsen, and Steve Montador.

Don't want to be an optimist or anything, but that doesn't scream great defense to me. Hopefully the top line can pitch in another goal or two, and take on the top pairing, which would leave our new 2nd line the ability to take on the secondary defenders. Not a bad idea.

On the reverse of that, though, is that Chicago has two legitimately great scoring lines. Not sure how our defense will handle that.
Chicago yeah, but Columbus also comes to town before that. If they can't get any offense generated against them, then...

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Old
01-28-2013, 05:09 PM
  #691
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
Chicago yeah, but Columbus also comes to town before that. If they can't get any offense generated against them, then...
****. I keep mixing up which team we play first.

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Old
01-28-2013, 05:47 PM
  #692
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Jan Itor View Post
I'm curious to see what the 2nd line, as now constructed, can do when they aren't playing against the best defensive team in the league.
a sadly overlooked fact in all the over-reacting after one game tinker posts.

Keep them together for at least two more games. Chicago is really rolling so far so it's another good test, but they aren't as good as St. Louis on defense and not as big overall.

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:22 PM
  #693
Sharppi
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Lets not underrate Columbus, that defensive core is good. They just can't score that much.

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Old
01-28-2013, 11:39 PM
  #694
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Lets not underrate Columbus, that defensive core is good. They just can't score that much.
In other words, they have the upper hand on us. Our defense sucks, and the offense from line 2 and down is afraid of the troll near the opponent's net.

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Old
01-29-2013, 12:03 AM
  #695
Kari Takko
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Heater/Koivu/Parise
Granlund/Brodziak/PMB
Seto/Cullen/Clutterbuck
Powe/Konopka/Mitchell

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Old
01-29-2013, 12:17 AM
  #696
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I would like to see the Butch - Granlund - Seto line for atleast a few more games. Yes they are a little soft and got manhandled last game, but there were moments when Butch and Granlund were really making things happen. Also, the blues are a damn good team, imo they are the best in the West. Every one of their lines is huge and skilled, and o yea their D man they are an awesome team from top to bottom. Give the new second line a few more games before tinkering again.

I kind of like the idea of moving Granny to the top line winger spot in Heatley's place. Heatley is mainly a PP threat and they could still leave the 1st PP in tact. But only do this if the current setup fails miserably like the last second line.

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Old
01-29-2013, 12:29 AM
  #697
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patp14 View Post
I would like to see the Butch - Granlund - Seto line for atleast a few more games. Yes they are a little soft and got manhandled last game, but there were moments when Butch and Granlund were really making things happen. Also, the blues are a damn good team, imo they are the best in the West. Every one of their lines is huge and skilled, and o yea their D man they are an awesome team from top to bottom. Give the new second line a few more games before tinkering again.

I kind of like the idea of moving Granny to the top line winger spot in Heatley's place. Heatley is mainly a PP threat and they could still leave the 1st PP in tact. But only do this if the current setup fails miserably like the last second line.
I wouldn't be opposed (although I don't like tinkering with something that is working) to seeing Granny on the top line, Brodziak centering Seto and Heater, and Cullen on the bottom with Clutter and whoever.

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Old
01-29-2013, 01:40 AM
  #698
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Why not move Mikko to the 2nd line...He doesn't need top tier line mates to be successful. The guy put up points with Antti Miettinen as a line mate for years for god sakes.

Put him with Bouchard like they used to do a few years back and let Granlund play with Parise and Heatley and show us what he can do offensively.

Top 9:
Parise-Granlund-Heatley
Bouchard-Koivu-Setoguchi
Cullen-Brodziak-Clutterbuck

I'd like them to try that..

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Old
01-29-2013, 01:55 PM
  #699
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Pierre LeBrun talks about the Wild's lines:

Quote:
The Wild, by the way, a team I like to make the playoffs, are too top-heavy right now on the No. 1 line of Mikko Koivu, Dany Heatley and Zach Parise. The three stars are doing most of the scoring while also playing north of 20 minutes a night, more than four minutes a night more than the next set of forwards. Those guys are going to run out of steam if that's how it's going to be all season long.
You could read that to mean the Wild should spread out the lines, but IMO that should be read that the Wild need better scoring depth to reduce the minutes of the top line. Looking at the second line here.

If you flip the second and third lines, Wild actually aren't too far from the big dogs, although Brodziak's numbers were jacked from having Mikko hurt and playing with Heatley.

-----------------

Long version:

Look at some of the teams he mentioned in the article and their top two lines (ignore the positions):

San Jose
Pavelski - Marleau - Thornton
Clowe - Havlat - Couture
Handzus - Galiardi - Wingels

St Louis
Oshie - Backes - Perron
Steen - McDonald - Tarasenko
Stewart - Berglund - Schwartz

Chicago
Kane - Sharp - Bolland
Toews - Hossa - Saad
Bickell - Shaw - Stalberg

Boston
Krejci - Horton - Lucic
Seguin - Bergeron - Marchand
Kelly - Peverly - Bourque

Minnesota
Parise - Koivu - Heatley
Bouchard - Granlund - Setoguchi
Cullen - Brodziak - Clutterbuck

Here are the goals those guys scored last year:

San Jose
1 = 79
2 = 55
3 = 19 + Wingels missed 2/3 the year
=====
153

St Louis
1 = 64 + Perron missed 1/3 the year
2 = 25 + Tarasenko + McDonald missed 2/3 the year
3 = 34 + Schwartz
=====
123 + Tarasenko + Schwartz

Chicago
1 = 75
2 = 58 + Saad + Toews missed 1/3 the year
3 = 43 + Shaw missed 1/2 the year
=====
176 + Saad

Boston
1 = 75 + Horton missed 1/2 the year
2 = 79
3 = 31 + Bourque + Peverly missed 1/3 the year
=====
185 + Bourque

Minnesota
1 = 67 + Mikko missed 1/3 the year
2 = 28 + Granlund + Bouchard missed 2/3 the year
3 = 51
=====
146 + Granlund

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Old
01-29-2013, 04:51 PM
  #700
Beegoalie
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Seems by looking at those lines from around the league per Jarick..most teams like to pair two stud forwards on each line..A luxury since we don't have quite yet. While I do think Granlund will become a stud forward and if/ when that happens you can split up that top line. Bouchard is good but he is no Hossa, Kane, Toews, Sharp..Or Thornton, Marleau, Pavelski, Couture...Boston and St. Lious same story to a lesser extent Teams that are elite have 4+stars in their top 6. We have 3, one in the making and one that is a half a star so to speak.

I would still put us in the top 10-12 as far as groups of forwards go though..maybe even higher.

Still not bad considering what we have had in the past years but we are a few developments upfront away from being an Elite team as far as top 9 forwards go.

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