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NHL Lockout Discussion XLIII: A Change Is Gonna Come

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01-03-2013, 04:16 PM
  #226
isles31
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Originally Posted by Shoalzie View Post
Great question...I definitely don't remember following those talks as close. I can't even remember how I found out they were cancelling the season.
i was 22, in the hospital battling cancer for that lockout. i couldnt even watch hockey on tv to distract me from what i was dealing with. That lockout left me bitter, this one has me just not caring anymore.

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01-03-2013, 04:16 PM
  #227
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Since the most any team is losing annually is generally well below ten million a year, I'm sure the huge cash cows pulling in huge profits can surely find a way to bring those franchises up to par.
They should just alllow the rich teams to buy draft picks from the poor teams.

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01-03-2013, 04:16 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by Boltsfan2029 View Post
That's simply incorrect. That's how mediators work. They meet and talk with one side, then they meet and talk with the other. They don't all meet together, they meet separately so they can talk in confidence and not "show their hand" to the other side.
This is only one way of doing it. They can also referee and facilitate face to face meetings and conversations. A lot depends on the relationship and history of the two respective sides.

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Old
01-03-2013, 04:18 PM
  #229
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Originally Posted by isles31 View Post
i was 22, in the hospital battling cancer for that lockout. i couldnt even watch hockey on tv to distract me from what i was dealing with. That lockout left me bitter, this one has me just not caring anymore.
My dad was battling cancer during the last lockout and didn't have his beloved Leafs to help him deal with it. Unfortunately, he passed away July 12, 2005. They announced the end of the lockout on July 13, 2005.

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Old
01-03-2013, 04:19 PM
  #230
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email from the devils

Statement from Jeff Vanderbeek:

“Today’s announcement is good news for Devils fans though I fully recognize fans' frustration with the work stoppage. Our future is now secure and we can be confident of continued on-ice success. Our team has gone to the Stanley Cup Final 5 times in the last 17 years and following the most recent run to the Stanley Cup Final last year, we are excited about our future -- for Jersey's team and Prudential Center, home to the 2013 NHL Draft.

I am grateful to Mike Gilfillan and Brick City Hockey for our former partnership. Together we shared a passion that led to the building of the Prudential Center – truly a shining jewel of a facility and in my view one of the best arenas in the entire world. The Rock is a great legacy for which we will always be proud.”

Sincerely,

The New Jersey Devils

---------------------------------

No ****ing kidding

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01-03-2013, 04:19 PM
  #231
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Originally Posted by mossey3535 View Post
I disagree.

This deal, whatever the NHLPA can wring out of it, is what the owners were prepared to do since Day One.

See my post above. They're not even paying the full amount of Make Whole they should have - whether they went with a 48 or 82 game season (I believe that they would have been willing to negotiate for a full season).

Besides Make Whole, they got a 59% discount on 2012-2013 contracts thanks to the NHLPA.

They got their 50/50 split.

They got their contract limits.

They got a 10 year CBA.

They got rid of back-diving contracts.

Bettman got more revenue sharing (I'm pretty sure this was a divided issue)
When you put it like that, Fehr's cranky attitude seems understandable.

It's getting to a stage where the players are going to have to wake up and realize what happened here. Gotta feel for guys who are just finishing their ELCs.

Congrats, kid! You made it to the big payday just in time to watch your career earning potential get wrecked by Kevin Westgarth and Chris Campoli.

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01-03-2013, 04:21 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by hlaverty06 View Post
email from the devils

Statement from Jeff Vanderbeek:

Today’s announcement is good news for Devils fans though I fully recognize fans' frustration with the work stoppage ...
Did I miss something? Which announcement is he talking about?

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01-03-2013, 04:21 PM
  #233
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If the two sides don't meet tonight, that's horrible optics for both of them. 11th hour is approaching rapidly, and they can't even get together to talk?

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01-03-2013, 04:22 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Based on the article I posted on Jason Chimera's quotes it sounds like an update would go like this..............

We are still locked out Bettman is mean. Fehr is great. Kool Aid for everyone - grape tonight.
There seems to be a lot of that on the site. Any unverified Tweet opens the floodgates for these posts.

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Old
01-03-2013, 04:22 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
Did I miss something? Which announcement is he talking about?
The one where he purchased the rest of the Devils and refinanced much of the debt.

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01-03-2013, 04:22 PM
  #236
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Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
Honestly... if you were the owner of a profitable franchise that you paid 2x what the guy in Atlanta did, wouldn't there be a finite limit to the amount you are willing to share with that guy?

And what if you were in the middle... squeaking by with a small profit based on a good number of ACTIVE things you had done to promote your team... would you share with a guy in a similar market who had spent little time/money on marketing?

When would enough be enough?
I agree with this line of thinking, and that's exactly why 100% revenue sharing works in the NFL but not the NHL.

First of all, the NFL implemented that since the beginning and it was seen as a move that saved the league from numerous franchises folding. Similar circumstances would have to happen for any major sports league to go that way again.

Second, the NFL's absolute numbers are so high that it doesn't matter. I would say that these days in order to make 100% revenue sharing work, you'd have to have revenues at least half-way between the NHL's and NFL's. That's why you don't see it in NBA for example because their revenues are not too much higher than the NHL's and they also don't have one massive source of $2-3B of their entire revenue like the NFL does with their TV deal.

So for example, if the NHL or NBA made 50%-75% of their money on a TV contract, then I think 100% sharing might work NFL-style. But because neither product has that currently, you'd have to wait until their total revenue became so great that it created the demand for a massive TV deal.

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01-03-2013, 04:22 PM
  #237
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Originally Posted by Scoobs View Post
If the two sides don't meet tonight, that's horrible optics for both of them. 11th hour is approaching rapidly, and they can't even get together to talk?
But they really care about the fans and only want to play.

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01-03-2013, 04:23 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by Scoobs View Post
If the two sides don't meet tonight, that's horrible optics for both of them. 11th hour is approaching rapidly, and they can't even get together to talk?
Terrible PR-wise but I really don't expect a deal in principle until the 9th or 10th. This thing isn't getting ratified until the last possible second. There was a thread on BoH about how to avoid lockouts going forward. That's easy: cancel the season on Sept 15 if a new CBA isn't negotiated by then.

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01-03-2013, 04:23 PM
  #239
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
The one where he purchased the rest of the Devils and refinanced much of the debt.
Oh...

Is that good?

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01-03-2013, 04:23 PM
  #240
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I really don't see why they wouldn't meet tonight....

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01-03-2013, 04:24 PM
  #241
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Rofl. You think bad markets cause demand in Vancouver? They would be that price anyways.
If not more so in a capless game. If a team like Vancouver or Toronto was spending the money to front an insane top 6 they could be looking at $300 tickets at $14 dollar beer.

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01-03-2013, 04:25 PM
  #242
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Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
Wouldn't really surprise me if there was another blow-up tonight, but what will it be over? Pension and cap # for next year? These are relatively easy issue to work through and figure out.
If there's one thing that's been proven over the last few months, it's that nothing is ever easy for these two individuals and sides to work out

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01-03-2013, 04:26 PM
  #243
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Oh...

Is that good?
Maybe the other owners were cheap? Who knows.

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01-03-2013, 04:26 PM
  #244
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Originally Posted by Crease View Post
Unless you think that the latest NHLPA proposal would cripple the NHL, how could you possibly blame Fehr for a lost season?
Because the NHLPA could have been fine by just caving to any number of NHL proposals.

Normally I am cool with this devil's advocate thing but Fehr has failed here under any quantitative metric.

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01-03-2013, 04:29 PM
  #245
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Some noteworthy forumers have gotten awfully quiet all of a sudden.

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01-03-2013, 04:29 PM
  #246
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So I did some additional and fairly simple number punching based on this:

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/

The total loss from struggling teams was 129.9 million. The total income for well-to-do teams was 380.5 million dollars, leading to a 250.6 million dollar overall profit for the league. That's more than enough to share with struggling teams.

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01-03-2013, 04:31 PM
  #247
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
So I did some additional and fairly simple number punching based on this:

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/

The total loss from struggling teams was 129.9 million. The total income for well-to-do teams was 380.5 million dollars, leading to a 250.6 million dollar overall profit for the league. That's more than enough to share with struggling teams.
What's the combined salary of the top 10% of the highest paid NHLers? What about the bottom 10%? I guess that's more than enough to just give them as well.

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01-03-2013, 04:32 PM
  #248
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
So I did some additional and fairly simple number punching based on this:

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/

The total loss from struggling teams was 129.9 million. The total income for well-to-do teams was 380.5 million dollars, leading to a 250.6 million dollar overall profit for the league. That's more than enough to share with struggling teams.
Not really, teams that are doing well do need to be able to get their own cut out of it. It shouldn't just be the players making money and all the owners just making a little bit of a profit or breaking even. Noone would get into business if that was the case.

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01-03-2013, 04:32 PM
  #249
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What's the combined salary of the top 10% of the highest paid NHLers? What about the bottom 10%? I guess that's more than enough to just give them as well.
"do as I say, not as I do"

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01-03-2013, 04:37 PM
  #250
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Not really, teams that are doing well do need to be able to get their own cut out of it. It shouldn't just be the players making money and all the owners just making a little bit of a profit or breaking even. Noone would get into business if that was the case.
I don't give a crap about the players making money. I give a crap about the long-term stability and well-being of the league. Those numbers include profit after operating expenses, so it's not like the big teams will suddenly be bankrupt.

On the other hand, it seems a lot of people are all about the owners making money. Screw that. I don't care who makes the money, as long as the league is healthy and doesn't need to lose 40-82 games once a decade. If the players AND owners have to take a hit to the bank to ensure the league lasts and prospers, so be it.

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