HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
National Hockey League Talk Discuss NHL players, teams, games, and the Stanley Cup Playoffs.

NHL Lockout Discussion XLIII: A Change Is Gonna Come

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-03-2013, 04:37 PM
  #251
vanwest
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Vancouver, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,491
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
Yes we can.

And quite easily too.
You can't if you have any objectivity.

vanwest is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:38 PM
  #252
Ducks DVM
Moderator
There is no grunion
 
Ducks DVM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Long Beach, CA
Country: United States
Posts: 18,934
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
So I did some additional and fairly simple number punching based on this:

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/

The total loss from struggling teams was 129.9 million. The total income for well-to-do teams was 380.5 million dollars, leading to a 250.6 million dollar overall profit for the league. That's more than enough to share with struggling teams.
If you assume you won't take from the first 10-15M a team makes, that means you're taking roughly half the total money from Toronto/Rangers. Never going to happen.

EDIT - Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying anything about the morality of the situation or being pro-owner about it. I just don't ever see a team willing supporting the league and damaging their own value to that extent.

Ducks DVM is online now  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:38 PM
  #253
SerenityRick
Registered User
 
SerenityRick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Moultonborough, NH
Country: United States
Posts: 14,445
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SerenityRick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
I don't give a crap about the players making money. I give a crap about the long-term stability and well-being of the league. Those numbers include profit after operating expenses, so it's not like the big teams will suddenly be bankrupt.
having rich teams pay for the poor teams isn't the answer then.

SerenityRick is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:38 PM
  #254
MardocAgain
Registered User
 
MardocAgain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 624
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
So I did some additional and fairly simple number punching based on this:

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/

The total loss from struggling teams was 129.9 million. The total income for well-to-do teams was 380.5 million dollars, leading to a 250.6 million dollar overall profit for the league. That's more than enough to share with struggling teams.
The NFL has i believe a 60% revenue sharing system. The notion that revenue sharing is driving down the value of teams is ludacrous. The Toronto Maple Leafs would be worth ALOT less if the league was made up of just the 6 most profitable teams.

With less teams the league would fade from relevance, therefore cheapening the value of it's teams.

MardocAgain is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:38 PM
  #255
MacTruck
In Gordie We Trust
 
MacTruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,925
vCash: 500
Probably wont be any details of tweets until at least 6ET. PA is still on their conference call

MacTruck is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:39 PM
  #256
Zoombie
Registered User
 
Zoombie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
So I did some additional and fairly simple number punching based on this:

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/

The total loss from struggling teams was 129.9 million. The total income for well-to-do teams was 380.5 million dollars, leading to a 250.6 million dollar overall profit for the league. That's more than enough to share with struggling teams.
Can't see 100% RS happening under any circumstance besides one in which all owners sell/purchase their teams to a common entity. If the Leafs agreed to 100% RS, obviously their $1B valuation will take a huge hit, so they would need to be compensated immensely while teams like Atlanta(sic) would need to pay significantly to enter such a system. Aside from actual dollars being posted, equity share could be broken differently amongst the owners (is this how NFL works?) but the team valuations are so disparate that a few teams would dominate and I doubt small cap teams would go for it.

Zoombie is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:40 PM
  #257
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
FAT SLOB
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 45,791
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SerenityRick View Post
having rich teams pay for the poor teams isn't the answer then.
It saved the NFL.

__________________
Down in the basement, I've got a Craftsman lathe. Show it to the children when they misbehave.
Beef Invictus is online now  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:40 PM
  #258
MeestaDeteta
Registered User
 
MeestaDeteta's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Saskazoo
Posts: 7,846
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
So I did some additional and fairly simple number punching based on this:

http://www.forbes.com/nhl-valuations/list/

The total loss from struggling teams was 129.9 million. The total income for well-to-do teams was 380.5 million dollars, leading to a 250.6 million dollar overall profit for the league. That's more than enough to share with struggling teams.
Total income or total profit?

MeestaDeteta is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:41 PM
  #259
Zoombie
Registered User
 
Zoombie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 910
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
I don't give a crap about the players making money. I give a crap about the long-term stability and well-being of the league. Those numbers include profit after operating expenses, so it's not like the big teams will suddenly be bankrupt.

On the other hand, it seems a lot of people are all about the owners making money. Screw that. I don't care who makes the money, as long as the league is healthy and doesn't need to lose 40-82 games once a decade. If the players AND owners have to take a hit to the bank to ensure the league lasts and prospers, so be it.
A healthy/stable league is a profitable league (for the owners) sooo....
Profitable businesses don't shut down for 1/2 a year every decade.

Zoombie is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:41 PM
  #260
MetalheadPenguinsFan
Disco Is Dead!!!
 
MetalheadPenguinsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Kitchener, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 22,984
vCash: 50
I fell asleep. Any big news??

MetalheadPenguinsFan is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:41 PM
  #261
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
FAT SLOB
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 45,791
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducks DVM View Post
If you assume you won't take from the first 10-15M a team makes, that means you're taking roughly half the total money from Toronto. Never going to happen.
If it comes down to 27 owners versus 3 owners, I imagine their hands will be tied...unless they want to form a 3 team league. There probably isn't much money to be had in that enterprise.

Beef Invictus is online now  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:42 PM
  #262
Shroomtastic71
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NYC/CT
Posts: 87
vCash: 500
Quote:
Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN

#CBA According to NY Southern District Court spokesperson, a status conference has been scheduled between NHL/NHLPA this Monday at 9:30 a.m.
https://twitter.com/KatieStrangESPN/...65379660652544

Shroomtastic71 is online now  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:42 PM
  #263
Beef Invictus
Global Moderator
FAT SLOB
 
Beef Invictus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Centreville
Country: Lord Howe Island
Posts: 45,791
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zoombie View Post
A healthy/stable league is a profitable league (for the owners) sooo....
Profitable businesses don't shut down for 1/2 a year every decade.
...and increased revenue sharing goes a long way towards fixing the problem. Player salary cuts alone won't cut it, as we saw in the last CBA and the one before it.

Beef Invictus is online now  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:42 PM
  #264
HartsyMania
What, me worry?
 
HartsyMania's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Pennsylvania
Country: United States
Posts: 358
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by MetalheadPenguinsFan View Post
I fell asleep. Any big news??
Nope, not really honestly.

HartsyMania is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:43 PM
  #265
HawksFan74
Tread Lightly
 
HawksFan74's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Chicago
Country: United States
Posts: 16,039
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by molsonmuscle360 View Post
Not really, teams that are doing well do need to be able to get their own cut out of it. It shouldn't just be the players making money and all the owners just making a little bit of a profit or breaking even. Noone would get into business if that was the case.
1. The profits should look better for all teams after this CBA
2. Some of those dragging the league down need to go or be relocated.

HawksFan74 is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:43 PM
  #266
MacTruck
In Gordie We Trust
 
MacTruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,925
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shroomtastic71 View Post
Oh boy..

MacTruck is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:43 PM
  #267
DPyro
Registered User
 
DPyro's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,333
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
It saved the NFL.
LOL. Your actually trying to compare the NFL to NHL?

DPyro is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:43 PM
  #268
bucks_oil
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,184
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
When every team in the league, including yours, is profitable?
Uhhh... yeah. Remember, unless I bought direct from the league during expansion, I bought a business for a value that was based on its revenues and profits at the time.

Revenue sharing does not help me recoup that initial investment. If I am already comfortably profitable (which I would be if I made a wise investment in the first place) then revenue sharing does nothing but hurt me.

I mean I understand how it *could* help, which is why I'd be willing to put *some* money into it... but really, if I'm Toronto, or Edmonton or Vancouver, or Boston... I'm pretty sure the money gained through a larger NBC TV deal does not make up for the amount I contribute to revenue sharing + the TV deal I'd get otherwise (with Sportsnet or NESN or TSN).

bucks_oil is online now  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:44 PM
  #269
FanSince2014
What'd He Say?
 
FanSince2014's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Slovenia
Posts: 3,071
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shroomtastic71 View Post
Quote:
Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN

#CBA According to NY Southern District Court spokesperson, a status conference has been scheduled between NHL/NHLPA this Monday at 9:30 a.m.
In it, the court will say "We know what you're trying to do. Stop screwing around, settle your differences, and don't get us involved. Thank you!"

FanSince2014 is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:45 PM
  #270
RangerBoy
#freejtmiller
 
RangerBoy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: New York
Country: United States
Posts: 32,266
vCash: 500
NHLPA hired the attorney who brokered the NBA settlement. James Quinn

Quote:
The NHLPA has hired longtime players-side attorney Jim Quinn of the Weil Gotshal & Manges firm & Weil attorneys Bruce Meyer & John Gerba.
https://twitter.com/SBJLizMullen/sta...65807584538624

RangerBoy is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:45 PM
  #271
Beukeboom Fan
Registered User
 
Beukeboom Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 12,040
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by tarheelhockey View Post
When you put it like that, Fehr's cranky attitude seems understandable.

It's getting to a stage where the players are going to have to wake up and realize what happened here. Gotta feel for guys who are just finishing their ELCs.

Congrats, kid! You made it to the big payday just in time to watch your career earning potential get wrecked by Kevin Westgarth and Chris Campoli.
Maybe your using "wrecked" figuratively? Because I'm absolutely certain the young potential studs will continue to get paid too much money for potential. JVR instead of getting $4.25M per year is only going to make about $3.75M per year (assuming HRR were high enought that he was going to make all of the $4.25). That's not going to change, and no where should that be considered "wrecked".

The real people who deserve to be bitter are the >35 crowd, or the 4th line lunchpail player that is goign to get replaced by a young kid. Those guys threw away about half a year of salary, or probably more than they will earn over the next 10-20 years, for what amounts to minor details in the big scheme of things.


Last edited by Beukeboom Fan: 01-03-2013 at 04:50 PM.
Beukeboom Fan is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:45 PM
  #272
Shroomtastic71
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: NYC/CT
Posts: 87
vCash: 500
Quote:
Katie Strang ‏@KatieStrangESPN

#CBA Status conference, aka a pre-trial meeting, being held w/ time-sensitive negotiations in mind. Will set sked & "case-management plan."
https://twitter.com/KatieStrangESPN/...66453767372800

Shroomtastic71 is online now  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:46 PM
  #273
hockeyball
Registered User
 
hockeyball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 18,483
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
It saved the NFL.
The NFL makes a ton more money than the NHL. Economies of scale factor in here. Punishing profitability and rewarding ineptitude is never a good business model. When the majority of teams are making money and the load is distributed among a larger group of profitable teams covering a smaller group of unprofitable teams then it can work. Also, it works when the unprofitable teams are only unprofitable because of things outside their control (new teams, old arena's, local economy, etc) and only for a limited amount of time. If a team remains in the unprofitable bucket for too long (Phoenix...) they need to be removed.

The NHL has a lot of unprofitable teams because they have extremely inept management. That is not something you want to be rewarding.

hockeyball is online now  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:46 PM
  #274
SerenityRick
Registered User
 
SerenityRick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Moultonborough, NH
Country: United States
Posts: 14,445
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to SerenityRick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
It saved the NFL.
The average NFL team is worth almost 1 billion dollars all by it's lonesome...

SerenityRick is offline  
Old
01-03-2013, 04:46 PM
  #275
MacTruck
In Gordie We Trust
 
MacTruck's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NY
Country: United States
Posts: 1,925
vCash: 500
Don't know what to expect with this going to court now. Certainly not good, IMO

MacTruck is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:08 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.