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NHL Lockout Discussion XLIII: A Change Is Gonna Come

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Old
01-03-2013, 04:04 PM
  #201
mossey3535
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Originally Posted by frivolousz21 View Post
So essentially the owners have caved over and over and when this deal is up another lockout will ensue.

Awesome.
I disagree.

This deal, whatever the NHLPA can wring out of it, is what the owners were prepared to do since Day One.

See my post above. They're not even paying the full amount of Make Whole they should have - whether they went with a 48 or 82 game season (I believe that they would have been willing to negotiate for a full season).

Besides Make Whole, they got a 59% discount on 2012-2013 contracts thanks to the NHLPA.

They got their 50/50 split.

They got their contract limits.

They got a 10 year CBA.

They got rid of back-diving contracts.

Bettman got more revenue sharing (I'm pretty sure this was a divided issue)

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01-03-2013, 04:04 PM
  #202
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
A delay from what?
It's not like the NHL was knocking on his door and demanding that negotiations get restarted. What exactly was he delaying? The mediators were pretty much a waste o ftime but they did not delay anything.
You're right, they were a waste of time. Anything to delay the negotiations towards the deadline without having to agree on something.

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01-03-2013, 04:04 PM
  #203
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
So why did the first vote last 5+ days and this one is only 48 hrs?
i would guess because they dont have to set up the process, explain the process and ensure there is enough time so the players make an informed decision. due to the fact they just did it.

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01-03-2013, 04:04 PM
  #204
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
Months ago someone on the BoH forum crunched the numbers and with 100% revenue sharing (and assuming all teams would have paid the same amount to the players under such a system), all 30 teams would have made a profit.

100% revenue sharing is probably never going to happen though...but it would be cool to see the league promote stability for itself by moving towards such a model.
I'm too tired to look.

And as nice as that would be, you won't see much movement in RS from any of the major sports leagues until one of them, minus the NFL, does it first. Thus a conundrum.

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01-03-2013, 04:05 PM
  #205
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
So why did the first vote last 5+ days and this one is only 48 hrs?
I hope someone asks Fehr that very question later. Be interesting how he replies.

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01-03-2013, 04:05 PM
  #206
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Originally Posted by blasted_Sabre View Post
PA is holding a con call late afternoon then meetings tonight with the league
Alright thanks! And as of right now the meetings are still on? I haven't heard they were off yet, so hope that means they're still on.

I knew there would likely be another blowup here before this gets settled. Not that it has really blown up yet, but it seems more tense than yesterday.

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01-03-2013, 04:06 PM
  #207
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
If another lockout ensues it's because of their unwillingness to promote stability with revenue sharing.
Honestly... if you were the owner of a profitable franchise that you paid 2x what the guy in Atlanta did, wouldn't there be a finite limit to the amount you are willing to share with that guy?

And what if you were in the middle... squeaking by with a small profit based on a good number of ACTIVE things you had done to promote your team... would you share with a guy in a similar market who had spent little time/money on marketing?

When would enough be enough?

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Old
01-03-2013, 04:06 PM
  #208
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I hope someone asks Fehr that very question later. Be interesting how he replies.
''It's an internal matter. I'm not answering any questions on that''.

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01-03-2013, 04:06 PM
  #209
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
The guy on the other side, Bettman, has been just as responsible for dragging things out. What with tantrums, hills they will die on, final final offers and a last minute attempt to change the penalties for not complying with HRR calculations, you can't place all of the blame on Fehr.
Yes we can.

And quite easily too.

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01-03-2013, 04:07 PM
  #210
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Quote:
John Shannon ‏@JSportsnet

By the way, the result in the PA vote will be known in 48 Hours this time...not 5 Days like the vote in December. #tickticktick
https://twitter.com/JSportsnet/statu...56598818115584

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01-03-2013, 04:08 PM
  #211
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
''It's an internal matter. I'm not answering any questions on that''.
Bingo...that's as predictable as Lou's 'status quo'

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01-03-2013, 04:08 PM
  #212
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I think talks could blow up tonight, and they come back next week on Monday after the vote concludes on Saturday. Then a deal hopefully gets done, but probably not until close to midnight on January 12th.

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01-03-2013, 04:09 PM
  #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CerebralGenesis View Post
I'm too tired to look.

And as nice as that would be, you won't see much movement in RS from any of the major sports leagues until one of them, minus the NFL, does it first. Thus a conundrum.
It also remains to be seen how much the increased revenue sharing helps, as well as how it's distributed. Maybe they've gotten it right and we'll have a healthy league without constant risk of multiple teams going bankrupt; or, since this is the NHL, they haven't gotten it right and we'll have another labor stoppage at the opt out date.

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01-03-2013, 04:09 PM
  #214
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
Bingo...that's as predictable as Lou's 'status quo'
Or my favorite line that we haven't heard in a while.

NO PROGRESS IN CBA NEGOTIATIONS!

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01-03-2013, 04:09 PM
  #215
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''It's an internal matter. I'm not answering any questions on that''.
Thanks for clearing that up Don..

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01-03-2013, 04:10 PM
  #216
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Originally Posted by bucks_oil View Post
Honestly... if you were the owner of a profitable franchise that you paid 2x what the guy in Atlanta did, wouldn't there be a finite limit to the amount you are willing to share with that guy?

And what if you were in the middle... squeaking by with a small profit based on a good number of ACTIVE things you had done to promote your team... would you share with a guy in a similar market who had spent little time/money on marketing?

When would enough be enough?
When every team in the league, including yours, is profitable?

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01-03-2013, 04:10 PM
  #217
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Originally Posted by Bleedred View Post
I think talks could blow up tonight, and they come back next week on Monday after the vote concludes on Saturday. Then a deal hopefully gets done, but probably not until close to midnight on January 12th.
Wouldn't really surprise me if there was another blow-up tonight, but what will it be over? Pension and cap # for next year? These are relatively easy issue to work through and figure out.

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01-03-2013, 04:12 PM
  #218
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As far as we know they aren't even meeting tonight.

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Old
01-03-2013, 04:12 PM
  #219
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Originally Posted by Cheesesteak Invictus View Post
When every team in the league, including yours, is profitable?
More likely when the degree of revenue sharing started impacting the valuation of the franchise you had just spent up to a billion for, which would be quite a ways before every team would be profitable.

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01-03-2013, 04:13 PM
  #220
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I put my phone down for an hour.. What did I miss?

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01-03-2013, 04:15 PM
  #221
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Originally Posted by Crows View Post
I put my phone down for an hour.. What did I miss?
Absolutely nothing.

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01-03-2013, 04:15 PM
  #222
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More likely when the degree of revenue sharing started impacting the valuation of the franchise you had just spent up to a billion for, which would be quite a ways before every team would be profitable.
Since the most any team is losing annually is generally well below ten million a year, I'm sure the huge cash cows pulling in huge profits can surely find a way to bring those franchises up to par.

Edit: Geez, never mind. CBJ and Phoenix account for about 40 million. A good start would be moving the Coyotes somewhere else. CBJ has shown in the past they can draw big crowds, they just need to get good management.

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01-03-2013, 04:16 PM
  #223
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Originally Posted by frivolousz21 View Post
Unless Uncle Don is magically going to get the onwners to back off 50/50 to a better angle for the players over-all nothing can make up for the lost revenue this year and in ensuing years.

Projected Revenue this season was 3.3 billion.

going forward:

3.3, 3.5, 3.7, 4.0

Now:

1.5, 3.0, 3.2, 3.5

I am probably being generous. That equals revenue reduction of 3 billion.

There is just no set of contract lengths, pensions, and whatever else that can come close to the idiocy of missing part of a season and the damage it will do to the casual fan base.
To me, this is the funniest thing about the whole situation.

I would LOVE to get a copy of Fehr's compensation agreement. I'm certain it would be a textbook course at MBA schools in how to shoot yourself in the foot (NHLPA) by hiring a guy and paying him in a way that makes him work COUNTER TO YOUR INTERESTS.

Something is seriously wrong with his contract, because, as you say... this has gone WAY BEYOND getting the best deal FOR THE PLAYERS. Fehr is in it to maximize his own benefit based on the performance clauses in his contract... and the players are too pre-occupied to realize they've screwed themselves.

Honestly, it is the only explanation for the current state of affairs.

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01-03-2013, 04:16 PM
  #224
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Originally Posted by Butch 19 View Post
Yes we can.

And quite easily too.
Unless you think that the latest NHLPA proposal would cripple the NHL, how could you possibly blame Fehr for a lost season?

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Old
01-03-2013, 04:16 PM
  #225
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If you're selling 4 tickets and 4 hot dogs and 4 beverages for $200 along with free parking then yes, it is.

Ask fans in Vancouver paying $150 a ticket, $10 a beer and $40 to park if they want to prop up bad markets, all the while the quality of the product suffers.

Same cap this year as was scheduled.

67 million (with a floor set to the 60 million dollar level) for 13/14.

Fully linked cap for 14/15.

This allows well built and planned teams to stay how they INTENDED. With no cap on escrow there is no risk for owners.
Rofl. You think bad markets cause demand in Vancouver? They would be that price anyways.

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