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Are we ever going to close Guantanamo?

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Old
01-04-2013, 08:51 AM
  #101
PricePkPatch
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Ok that is your decision. I am actually consulting an old prof who is in contact with American criminologists who write policies for those detained in Gitmo. I am going to see if there is some truth to the so called black sites that Slip is referring to. I do not think that there are similar to what the Soviets used but I think there may be some truth beyond his obvious exaggeration.
There certainly are some truth, obviously. People suspected of being part of terrorist organizations ARE being kidnapped and detained outside of any legal frame, with no warrant or being charged.

And I wouldn't have any problem believing some of them are kept in uncomfortable conditions to make them more receptive to interrogation. They are HumInt sources that have to be milked, after all.

But I do not think these conditions are extended to ALL prisoners. These prisoners are not being executed, nor held indefinitely. Nor are they captured for mere political opposition to the USA, but for actual ties to terrorist organizations that KILL people.

It's an intelligence war, and torture happens to be one inefficient way of collecting intel. Maybe even dangerous, for you can collect false positives. Basic interrogation has been proven to be more effective, but that includes tactics used by ye average cops.


Hell, I am quite sure some prison hellholes in the USA have worse living conditions that the so-called CIA gulags. At least in the CIA you don't get buttraped.

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01-04-2013, 09:28 AM
  #102
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
Ok that is your decision. I am actually consulting an old prof who is in contact with American criminologists who write policies for those detained in Gitmo. I am going to see if there is some truth to the so called black sites that Slip is referring to. I do not think that there are similar to what the Soviets used but I think there may be some truth beyond his obvious exaggeration.
The meaning of "gulag" extends beyond reference to Soviet style political labor camps; a quick google search reveals as much. The attempt to make this discussion about this particular term is just willful obfuscation by some.

That said. it's imperative that Liberal arm-chair generals like Ilkka and Price deliberately misrepresent my ideas, because it's much easier to dismiss my Chomskyesque critique of US imperial policies by tossing out slurs and ad hominems, as any debate based on the naked facts of this policy reveal a tremendous hypocrisy between the values we inscribe in our documents and monuments, and the actual, real behavior we display toward many of our own citizens (prison system which has more inmates than that totalitarian regime in China) but especially abroad (Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan).

That's the fundamental point: Ilkka and Price attempt to refute my arguments based on the happy, cheerful humanistic "ideas" embraced by the West; I refute them based on the real actions of these states which are anything but humanistic.

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01-04-2013, 09:42 AM
  #103
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real behavior we display toward many of our own citizens (prison system which has more inmates than that totalitarian regime in China) but especially abroad (Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan).
Your statement about the prison system is 100 percent uncontroversial. I mostly specialize in canadian criminal justice but I have done some research into the United States prison system as well. The United States extensive use of deterrence in the form of capital punishment and long prison sentences are a definite area of concern. Not only are they inhumane but are incredibly expensive. I have yet to meet one professor in criminology that supports a get tough on crime approach employed by both Canada and the United States. The 3 strike rule used by california is utterly absurd (I do not know if they still use it). The incredibly long prison sentences definitely contribute to the vast number of prisoners. The best form of punishments are such uses as day fines employed in Europe and restorative justice that has its roots in aboriginal sentencing circles. The American way of treating its prisoners is absolutely barbaric.

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01-04-2013, 09:43 AM
  #104
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Originally Posted by slip View Post
The meaning of "gulag" extends beyond reference to Soviet style political labor camps; a quick google search reveals as much. The attempt to make this discussion about this particular term is just willful obfuscation by some.

That said. it's imperative that Liberal arm-chair generals like Ilkka and Price deliberately misrepresent my ideas, because it's much easier to dismiss my Chomskyesque critique of US imperial policies by tossing out slurs and ad hominems, as any debate based on the naked facts of this policy reveal a tremendous hypocrisy between the values we inscribe in our documents and monuments, and the actual, real behavior we display toward many of our own citizens (prison system which has more inmates than that totalitarian regime in China) but especially abroad (Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan).

That's the fundamental point: Ilkka and Price attempt to refute my arguments based on the happy, cheerful humanistic "ideas" embraced by the West; I refute them based on the real actions of these states which are anything but humanistic.
The world is a messed up place...

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01-04-2013, 12:03 PM
  #105
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Ok that is your decision. I am actually consulting an old prof who is in contact with American criminologists who write policies for those detained in Gitmo. I am going to see if there is some truth to the so called black sites that Slip is referring to. I do not think that there are similar to what the Soviets used but I think there may be some truth beyond his obvious exaggeration.
I have received feedback from one of my old profs although not the one I wanted most.
He gave me an excellent source to a scholarly article written in 2008 explaining the situation of Guantanamo Bay. I find scholarly sources much more accurate than any website.
Restoring Moral Authority: Ending Torture, Secret Detention, and the Prison at Guantanamo Bay
Tom Malinowski
I found it in Annals of the American Academy of Political and Social Science. I can hardly post it because of copyright infringments because you need direct access from an institution.

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01-04-2013, 01:06 PM
  #106
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Edit: That wasn't the article at all. My bad.

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01-04-2013, 01:37 PM
  #107
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Way to not get dragged down to the ad hominem level.
Hard to avoid when debating Ilkka the Slanderous:

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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
I'm not going to get into specifics with someone who doesn't have the balls to lay out what he would have done.
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
lol, the U.S. has a vast network of gulags? slip is a lunatic.
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
When your posts are as over-the-top cynical, wild-eyed and crazy as yours, you should expect facepalms and insults.
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
Exactly. He instinctively goes to the most over-the-top cynical thing he can say (especially when the subject involves the U.S. government), then when he gets called out and ridiculed, he accuses other people of name-calling and being ignorant.

The people being detained in CIA-sponsored facilities are from other countries and have either engaged in or are suspected of engaging in terrorist activities against western nations. They aren't being held because they're agitating against the U.S. political system. If that were the case then slip should be rounded up any day now (and frankly, this would be a welcome development for this message board).
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
It would behoove you to not agree with slip on anything, he's a complete ass hole, a moron and a hyper-negative piece of garbage.
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Originally Posted by Ilkka Sinisalo View Post
I dismiss his opinions because he's a loon and because he constantly lies and makes **** up about what I believe.
So I take a couple personal jabs at the guy (after enduring repeated, childish attacks for weeks), he then proceeds to call me a me loon, ass hole, piece of garbage, moron, etc.

Just wanted to point that out, in case you're still dishing out admonishments over fallacious, informal argumentative structures.

More importantly, you raised the idea in your opening post that the Obama administration has failed yet again to reconcile the actions of our government with our alleged humanistic ideals. Are we a nation that imprisons without authority, or do we respect the rules of international law?; are we a society that condones torture, or do we respect the sanctity of human rights?; do we believe in due process, or is extra-judicial killing (of U.S. non-combatant citizens no less) to be tolerated in this indefinite and amorphous war on terror our government has imposed on us?

Is seeking out and executing Bin Laden a heroic act, or have we sunk to level of the terrorists themselves when we simply behave as they do?

It is against this moral backdrop that I approach the question of Gitmo, and what I believe is the scaled down "gulag archipelago" we've constructed prosecuting the war on terror. Kadri is on the case, attempting to ascertain the real existence of these "black sites" (the majority of which exist in Iraq and Afghanistan, e.g. Abu Ghraib). I have little doubt his findings will confirm what I already know .

I take the question of Gitmo very seriously. In my world, there can be no Gitmos. And I use the freedom of speech afforded to me by my government to rail against the existence of these unnecessary, yet evil prisons, detention centers, torture camps, gulags, whatever you wish to call them.

If posing these questions makes me a moron, a loon, a lunatic, a piece of garbage, then so be it. As long as they're coming from that intellectual hack, I'll wear the labels with honor.

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01-04-2013, 01:56 PM
  #108
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Just wanted to point that out, in case you're still dishing out admonishments over fallacious, informal argumentative structures.

More importantly, you raised the idea in your opening post that the Obama administration has failed yet again to reconcile the actions of our government with our alleged humanistic ideals. Are we a nation that imprisons without authority, or do we respect the rules of international law?; are we a society that condones torture, or do we respect the sanctity of human rights?; do we believe in due process, or is extra-judicial killing (of U.S. non-combatant citizens no less) to be tolerated in this indefinite and amorphous war on terror our government has imposed on us?

Is seeking out and executing Bin Laden a heroic act, or have we sunk to level of the terrorists themselves when we simply behave as they do?

It is against this moral backdrop that I approach the question of Gitmo, and what I believe is the scaled down "gulag archipelago" we've constructed prosecuting the war on terror. Kadri is on the case, attempting to ascertain the real existence of these "black sites" (the majority of which exist in Iraq and Afghanistan, e.g. Abu Ghraib). I have little doubt his findings will confirm what I already know .

I take the question of Gitmo very seriously. In my world, there can be no Gitmos. And I use the freedom of speech afforded to me by my government to rail against the existence of these unnecessary, yet evil prisons, detention centers, torture camps, gulags, whatever you wish to call them.

If posing these questions makes me a moron, a loon, a lunatic, a piece of garbage, then so be it. As long as they're coming from that intellectual hack, I'll wear the labels with honor.
I was admonishing your hypocrisy. I don't care if you use ad hominem, I just thought it was funny watching you complain about it and then turn around and do it yourself.

Similarly, I don't like Gitmo from a moral standpoint but I can accept its existence. I do that with all kinds of military topics, so doing it for Gitmo isn't too hard. What I can't accept is the doublethink of apparently wanting it closed and yet continually signing bills that will make it harder on yourself to close.

If we're going to keep Gitmo open, I want our commander in chief to defend why it should remain open, not pout about it like a child eating their vegetables and then move on every time a bill about it reaches his desk. I'm not going to pretend that Congress has made it easy on him, but again, he has veto power. If he really wanted it closed that badly, he'd use it.

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01-04-2013, 02:07 PM
  #109
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I was admonishing your hypocrisy. I don't care if you use ad hominem, I just thought it was funny watching you complain about it and then turn around and do it yourself.
Good. Because I actually think you're dumber than your butt buddy Ilkka, and that's no small feat.

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Similarly, I don't like Gitmo from a moral standpoint but I can accept its existence.
Liberalism in a nutshell, folks!

So, obviously your problems with Gitmo seems more procedural than moral. Of all the reasons to oppose it's existence, you went and picked the dumbest one of all.

I'm arguing with ****ing retards, and I'm starting to sound like them too. What's that saying: you can't wrestle with pigs and not get muddied up?

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01-04-2013, 02:13 PM
  #110
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Good. Because I actually think you're dumber than your butt buddy Ilkka, and that's no small feat.



Liberalism in a nutshell, folks!

So, obviously your problems with Gitmo seem more procedural than moral. Of all the reasons to oppose it's existence, you went and picked the dumbest one of all.

I'm arguing with ****ing retards, and I'm starting to sound like them too. What's that saying: you can't wrestle with pigs and not get muddied up?
Ohhhh wow, you really put me right in my place.

I'm totally convinced that you're right, I'm wrong, and lizard men rule the Earth or whatever it is you believe.

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01-04-2013, 02:43 PM
  #111
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Are we a nation that imprisons without authority, or do we respect the rules of international law?; are we a society that condones torture, or do we respect the sanctity of human rights?; do we believe in due process, or is extra-judicial killing (of U.S. non-combatant citizens no less) to be tolerated in this indefinite and amorphous war on terror our government has imposed on us?

Is seeking out and executing Bin Laden a heroic act, or have we sunk to level of the terrorists themselves when we simply behave as they do?

It is against this moral backdrop that I approach the question of Gitmo, and what I believe is the scaled down "gulag archipelago" we've constructed prosecuting the war on terror. Kadri is on the case, attempting to ascertain the real existence of these "black sites" (the majority of which exist in Iraq and Afghanistan, e.g. Abu Ghraib). I have little doubt his findings will confirm what I already know .

I take the question of Gitmo very seriously. In my world, there can be no Gitmos. And I use the freedom of speech afforded to me by my government to rail against the existence of these unnecessary, yet evil prisons, detention centers, torture camps, gulags, whatever you wish to call them.
.
I am attempting to find the information from scholarly trusted sources but it is rather difficult. I received a great source from a prof from 2008 (which I previously posted) that confirms the existence of torture on non-combattents. The academic article speaks of water boarding, sleep deprivation and lights on 24 hours a day. The trusted article also states the use of these tactics to be derivative of the KGB during the cold war. It states one of the reasons to use these tactics is because they leave no physical injuries. Am I entirely surprised? Not at all. I have also uncovered academic articles stating the psychological effects and they are extensive.
I hope to uncover some articles on what has gone down in the Obama Administration. I will gladly post the details if I find any. I hope someone has been able to access the article that I posted to acknowledge the truth of what I wrote. However, like I said earlier, you will need access through an educational institution.

As for what you said, I do not think that what I highlighted is really controversial. I imagine that many people feel the same way (I do) yet you write in an aggressive style that some find to be offensive. BTW I thought the execution of Bin Laden was also disgusting. He should have been allowed a trial through due process. I do not condone any execution from a government no matter how dangerous the person is.

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01-04-2013, 02:44 PM
  #112
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Please stop quoting him.

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01-04-2013, 02:58 PM
  #113
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And if they kill a bunch of Canadians and Americans? You think the fall out is going to be that no one is to blame?
In an ideal world there should be no blame then. If you can't proof blame in the courtroom, the state has no right to hold them. What's stopping the government from just puttning everyone they don't like in a cell?

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01-04-2013, 03:17 PM
  #114
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Is it still wet in here from yesterdays pissing match?

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01-04-2013, 03:24 PM
  #115
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Is it still wet in here from yesterdays pissing match?
Watch where you step

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01-04-2013, 03:25 PM
  #116
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Is it still wet in here from yesterdays pissing match?
Absolutely and unequivocally drenched.

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01-04-2013, 03:29 PM
  #117
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Absolutely and unequivocally drenched.
I don't know, I thought some devolved to flinging poo

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01-04-2013, 04:33 PM
  #118
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I have read a particularly horrific academic journal entitled Paranoid Empire: Specters from Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib: Anne McClintock March 2009

Not all prisoners in US bases in Afghanistan and Iraq are terrorists or enemy combattents (pg 50). Some prisoners are innocent people picked up off the street in random sweeps including taxi drivers, labourers and prostitutues (51). What is the point of torturing and imprisoning innocent civilians? Anne believes it serves no useful purpose at she articulates her position at page 51, "It
is a terrible question with terrible implications, not only for the people immiserated by ruinous US occupation but also for how we understand what kind of empire it is that now extends its ghostly filaments beyond Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib throughout the shadowy, global gulag
of secret interrogation prisons, “black sites,” torture ships, and off-shore internment camps now known to straddle the world" (51). The United States has entered a dream world that is a limitless war against a limitness threat (51). The photographs of Abu Ghraib was part of a "bureaucratic rationalization: to to produce the bodies of “the enemy” and make the prisoners legible as enemies, thereby putatively “legitimizing” the occupation. At the same time, the photographs served as an instrumental means of perfecting the methods of torture (now dubbed by the ghastly euphemism “enhanced interrogation measures”) by using the visual archive of cruelty to gaze, again and again, at the scenes of torture in order to perfect through retrospective analysis the ever-refinement of techniques for breaking people down. The photos were also used to directly terrorize and humiliate the prisoners, to intimidate other prisoners, and, when shown outside the prison, to intimidate the prisoners’ families and communities. In some cases, they were used to attempt to blackmail prisoners into becoming infiltrators of the resistance. Finally, subjecting the prisoners to constant photographic surveillance became in itself a form of humiliation, torment, and torture; many of the prisoners so photographed fell into deep depression and some became suicidal" (59). The author goes on to say how the Bush adminstration tried to say it was a few bad apples when really it was the whole administration (61).

So I can we can say Slip had a point when he used the word "gulag". A lot of people made fun of him yet Dr. Anne McClintock used the same term to describe the treatment of the Afghans by the Americans. I plan on finding further research and posting it. Again I hope I can find information from the Obama Administration.

If you want to check out the source
Paranoid Empire: Specters from Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib
Small Axe, Number 28 (Volume 13, Number 1), March 2009, pp. 50-74
by: (Dr.) Anne McClintock


Last edited by Kadri43: 01-04-2013 at 04:35 PM. Reason: Dr. Martha Lincoln uses the same terminology in her article Black Hole, Gulag, Country Club: A Map of Guantánamo Bay.
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01-04-2013, 04:56 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Kadri43 View Post
I have read a particularly horrific academic journal entitled Paranoid Empire: Specters from Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib: Anne McClintock March 2009

Not all prisoners in US bases in Afghanistan and Iraq are terrorists or enemy combattents (pg 50). Some prisoners are innocent people picked up off the street in random sweeps including taxi drivers, labourers and prostitutues (51). What is the point of torturing and imprisoning innocent civilians? Anne believes it serves no useful purpose at she articulates her position at page 51, "It
is a terrible question with terrible implications, not only for the people immiserated by ruinous US occupation but also for how we understand what kind of empire it is that now extends its ghostly filaments beyond Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib throughout the shadowy, global gulag
of secret interrogation prisons, “black sites,” torture ships, and off-shore internment camps now known to straddle the world" (51). The United States has entered a dream world that is a limitless war against a limitness threat (51). The photographs of Abu Ghraib was part of a "bureaucratic rationalization: to to produce the bodies of “the enemy” and make the prisoners legible as enemies, thereby putatively “legitimizing” the occupation. At the same time, the photographs served as an instrumental means of perfecting the methods of torture (now dubbed by the ghastly euphemism “enhanced interrogation measures”) by using the visual archive of cruelty to gaze, again and again, at the scenes of torture in order to perfect through retrospective analysis the ever-refinement of techniques for breaking people down. The photos were also used to directly terrorize and humiliate the prisoners, to intimidate other prisoners, and, when shown outside the prison, to intimidate the prisoners’ families and communities. In some cases, they were used to attempt to blackmail prisoners into becoming infiltrators of the resistance. Finally, subjecting the prisoners to constant photographic surveillance became in itself a form of humiliation, torment, and torture; many of the prisoners so photographed fell into deep depression and some became suicidal" (59). The author goes on to say how the Bush adminstration tried to say it was a few bad apples when really it was the whole administration (61).

So I can we can say Slip had a point when he used the word "gulag". A lot of people made fun of him yet Dr. Anne McClintock used the same term to describe the treatment of the Afghans by the Americans. I plan on finding further research and posting it. Again I hope I can find information from the Obama Administration.

If you want to check out the source
Paranoid Empire: Specters from Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib
Small Axe, Number 28 (Volume 13, Number 1), March 2009, pp. 50-74
by: (Dr.) Anne McClintock
Like I said Kadri, I was very confident your research would corroborate my argument. And no, I take little comfort in being right about this. It's ****ing sad and depressing. It pisses me off.

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01-04-2013, 05:11 PM
  #120
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Watch where you step
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I don't know, I thought some devolved to flinging poo
Uh, you were right in the middle of it. Stop acting like a neutral observer, like Kurtosis or Led.

Now that Kadri has found scholarly sources that also use the expression "gulag" in the exact same context I'm using it (let's pretend for a moment Anne McClintock is smarter than us), are you willing to concede that you doth protest the meaning of 'gulag' too much?

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01-04-2013, 05:31 PM
  #121
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Uh, you were right in the middle of it. Stop acting like a neutral observer, like Kurtosis or Led.

Now that Kadri has found scholarly sources that also use the expression "gulag" in the exact same context I'm using it (let's pretend for a moment Anne McClintock is smarter than us), are you willing to concede that you doth protest the meaning of 'gulag' too much?
Dr. McClintock is hardly the only Dr. using the exact term either. I doubt there are anyone on these boards with research capabilities in the exact area as it is extremely specific. I conduct research but in a completely different field and therefore really know nothing about the topic.
However, for those who were proven wrong there is no shame. I was found to be horribly wrong yesterday yet gained significant knowledge for the future.

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01-04-2013, 06:39 PM
  #122
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I have read a particularly horrific academic journal entitled Paranoid Empire: Specters from Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib: Anne McClintock March 2009

Not all prisoners in US bases in Afghanistan and Iraq are terrorists or enemy combattents (pg 50). Some prisoners are innocent people picked up off the street in random sweeps including taxi drivers, labourers and prostitutues (51). What is the point of torturing and imprisoning innocent civilians? Anne believes it serves no useful purpose at she articulates her position at page 51, "It
is a terrible question with terrible implications, not only for the people immiserated by ruinous US occupation but also for how we understand what kind of empire it is that now extends its ghostly filaments beyond Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib throughout the shadowy, global gulag
of secret interrogation prisons, “black sites,” torture ships, and off-shore internment camps now known to straddle the world" (51). The United States has entered a dream world that is a limitless war against a limitness threat (51). The photographs of Abu Ghraib was part of a "bureaucratic rationalization: to to produce the bodies of “the enemy” and make the prisoners legible as enemies, thereby putatively “legitimizing” the occupation. At the same time, the photographs served as an instrumental means of perfecting the methods of torture (now dubbed by the ghastly euphemism “enhanced interrogation measures”) by using the visual archive of cruelty to gaze, again and again, at the scenes of torture in order to perfect through retrospective analysis the ever-refinement of techniques for breaking people down. The photos were also used to directly terrorize and humiliate the prisoners, to intimidate other prisoners, and, when shown outside the prison, to intimidate the prisoners’ families and communities. In some cases, they were used to attempt to blackmail prisoners into becoming infiltrators of the resistance. Finally, subjecting the prisoners to constant photographic surveillance became in itself a form of humiliation, torment, and torture; many of the prisoners so photographed fell into deep depression and some became suicidal" (59). The author goes on to say how the Bush adminstration tried to say it was a few bad apples when really it was the whole administration (61).

So I can we can say Slip had a point when he used the word "gulag". A lot of people made fun of him yet Dr. Anne McClintock used the same term to describe the treatment of the Afghans by the Americans. I plan on finding further research and posting it. Again I hope I can find information from the Obama Administration.

If you want to check out the source
Paranoid Empire: Specters from Guantánamo and Abu Ghraib
Small Axe, Number 28 (Volume 13, Number 1), March 2009, pp. 50-74
by: (Dr.) Anne McClintock
I research McClintock's paper, and you do seem to ignore that none of her source date later than 2008. Hasn't Obama signed a law that explicitly forbid use of these torture means?

Also, last time I checked, Abu Grahib/Guantanamo were Armed Forces-run institutions. Not CIA-operated. I believe we WERE talking about these CIA-prison network operating renditions designed to interrogate suspected terrorist sympathizers/operatives, NOT the Army/Marines prisons designed to detain and interrogate insurgents.

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01-04-2013, 06:44 PM
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Kadri43
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
I research McClintock's paper, and you do seem to ignore that none of her source date later than 2008. Hasn't Obama signed a law that explicitly forbid use of these torture means?
I understand where you might have been mistaken. However, as I have been heavily involved in researching for a number of years now, the first thing I look at is the year of publication. I showed the year when I provided the source. Also, I stated in the end of my post that I have yet to find information under the Obama administration. I will be looking at further research tomorrow.


Last edited by Kadri43: 01-04-2013 at 06:45 PM. Reason: I will check out my article to see if the CIA has anything to do with the prisons
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01-04-2013, 06:55 PM
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I understand where you might have been mistaken. However, as I have been heavily involved in researching for a number of years now, the first thing I look at is the year of publication. I showed the year when I provided the source. Also, I stated in the end of my post that I have yet to find information under the Obama administration. I will be looking at further research tomorrow.
You know, since the whole point was to discuss Obama's agenda toward Gitmo (and someone barged in about the CIA Prison) I would have expected academic research to be focusing on this administration, rather than the last one we all agreed acted in a quite morally bankrupted way.

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01-04-2013, 06:55 PM
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Originally Posted by PricePkPatch View Post
Also, last time I checked, Abu Grahib/Guantanamo were Armed Forces-run institutions. Not CIA-operated. I believe we WERE talking about these CIA-prison network operating renditions designed to interrogate suspected terrorist sympathizers/operatives, NOT the Army/Marines prisons designed to detain and interrogate insurgents.
According to Dr. McClintock at pg 59, "At Abu Ghraib, I argue, US military intelligence, the CIA,
the contractors, and the interrogators photographed the prisoners as part of a performance
of bureaucratic rationalization: to produce the bodies of “the enemy” and make the prisoners legible as enemies, thereby putatively “legitimizing” the occupation".

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