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NHL Lockout Discussion XLIV: The Night and the Silent Water

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01-04-2013, 06:52 AM
  #251
swimmer77
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Chimera Doesn't Trust Bettman

“I’m a little leery,” Capitals winger Jason Chimera said Thursday following a player-organized workout in Arlington. The league “knew that deadline [to disclaim interest] was coming, so maybe they were bargaining in good faith up until that moment and maybe they’re going to shut it down today. I don’t dislike anybody, but I don’t trust Gary Bettman right now and what his motive is. He’s a nice man, I’ve met him numerous times, but I don’t trust what’s happened so far.

Um Jason........you drank the Kool Aid. What's the flavor for today? Would you walk off a cliff with Donald Fehr? Nevermind........don't answer that.

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01-04-2013, 06:52 AM
  #252
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Are we back to doom and gloom?
I can't keep up...

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01-04-2013, 06:56 AM
  #253
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Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy View Post
Are we back to doom and gloom?
I can't keep up...
Tightrope Thursday followed by Frenetic Friday.

It's a shame that both sides have to wait until next week to do a deal and can't just do it now.

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01-04-2013, 07:04 AM
  #254
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I suspect the tone hasn't changed much but it's mostly that the items that remain are things NHL won't budge on.

They have moved on a lot of things this week so perhaps NHLPA expected them to move on all things and when they don't, Fehr tries to re-use the threat of disclaimer while getting the players upset that the league are being difficult in negotiations (how's that for irony).

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01-04-2013, 07:04 AM
  #255
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Originally Posted by Cmoneyflyguy View Post
Are we back to doom and gloom?
I can't keep up...
I think a lot of fans following the lockout get discouraged that the process is so fragile that even a little issue (that's been resolved, no less) can throw negotiations off for a day. At this rate, a big speed bump in the talks could de-rail the entire season.

The lack of trust is astounding. It's embarrassing to me, as a fan of the game, to see these two sides literally not able to trust a single word coming out of the others mouth.

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01-04-2013, 07:15 AM
  #256
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Possibly some positive news if not discussed?

Rumor going around in the KHL is that the NHL players have been told by their respective franchises to return to North America by January 11.

Teemu Selanne has also said he thinks the season will start around 19/20 of January.

http://allhockey.ru/news/139374/

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01-04-2013, 07:16 AM
  #257
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Chimera Doesn't Trust Bettman

“I’m a little leery,” Capitals winger Jason Chimera said Thursday following a player-organized workout in Arlington. The league “knew that deadline [to disclaim interest] was coming, so maybe they were bargaining in good faith up until that moment and maybe they’re going to shut it down today. I don’t dislike anybody, but I don’t trust Gary Bettman right now and what his motive is. He’s a nice man, I’ve met him numerous times, but I don’t trust what’s happened so far.

Um Jason........you drank the Kool Aid. What's the flavor for today? Would you walk off a cliff with Donald Fehr? Nevermind........don't answer that.
So, because he doesn't trust Bettman and the owners, it means he is simply drinking Fehr's Kool-Aid? Got it.

For years we all heard Bettman yap about how well the league was doing, how the cap and "partnership" with the players has been great for all teams, how the league is thriving. All of a sudden, CBA is up and things are in dire straits. But right, it is the players who are drinking Kool-aid for not trusting what Bettman has to say. His job is to make as much money for the owners as possible and the trend has been to do so by taking from the players. Shouldn't take a nuclear physicist to figure out why the players don't trust the man.

Oh wait, should he just keep his mouth shut? I forgot, freedom of speech only exists when you are saying something considered PC, nowadays.

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01-04-2013, 07:17 AM
  #258
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Originally Posted by Dynamo81 View Post
Possibly some positive news if not discussed?

Rumor going around in the KHL is that the NHL players have been told by their respective franchises to return to North America by January 11.

Teemu Selanne has also said he thinks the season will start around 19/20 of January.

http://allhockey.ru/news/139374/
If it does start this season it'll start on a Saturday so as not to clash with the NFL play-offs.

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01-04-2013, 07:18 AM
  #259
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Originally Posted by Dynamo81 View Post
Possibly some positive news if not discussed?

Rumor going around in the KHL is that the NHL players have been told by their respective franchises to return to North America by January 11.

Teemu Selanne has also said he thinks the season will start around 19/20 of January.

http://allhockey.ru/news/139374/
We have heard similar rumors. Rumors about coaches contacting players, players being told to come home asap. All turned out to be bogus.

Although, I do believe what Selanne is being told. I have thought since the beginning that was the plan from BOTH sides.

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01-04-2013, 07:22 AM
  #260
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Because more reputable sources were de-bunking it with emphatic nature.
If there is one thing I've learned this lockout, it's that no source is any more reliable or reputable than another at this point.

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01-04-2013, 07:23 AM
  #261
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I think it's common sense at this point that there is way too much to lose over what can possibly be negotiated out. That's why you hear all these things about coming back/etc.

That being said, it boggles my mind why Fehr focused on getting the players pissed off regarding the language. It was tweeted all changes were highlighted. So it's not like this is some secret. So why waste time on that? How isn't anyone doing the math of what is being lost compared to what is being gained? That's where this lockout should end. I swear it's fighting for the sake of fighting.

Newsflash - we all lost already. So stop trying to win a battle where two groups lost. Get this thing done and in the books.

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01-04-2013, 07:26 AM
  #262
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I think it's common sense at this point that there is way too much to lose over what can possibly be negotiated out. That's why you hear all these things about coming back/etc.

That being said, it boggles my mind why Fehr focused on getting the players pissed off regarding the language. It was tweeted all changes were highlighted. So it's not like this is some secret. So why waste time on that? How isn't anyone doing the math of what is being lost compared to what is being gained? That's where this lockout should end. I swear it's fighting for the sake of fighting.

Newsflash - we all lost already. So stop trying to win a battle where two groups lost. Get this thing done and in the books.
Tweeted by who? The source was a LEAGUE OFFICIAL. Nah, he doesn't have any reason to lie. But, I guess if it was written on twitter it HAS to be true.

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01-04-2013, 07:27 AM
  #263
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
We have heard similar rumors. Rumors about coaches contacting players, players being told to come home asap. All turned out to be bogus.

Although, I do believe what Selanne is being told. I have thought since the beginning that was the plan from BOTH sides.
First time it is coming out of Russia, heck even last week the president of the KHL hinted at the NHL starting a week after the KHL All Star Game (13th of January).

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01-04-2013, 07:28 AM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
If it does start this season it'll start on a Saturday so as not to clash with the NFL play-offs.
Would make sense cheers for that, did not even realize they were in the play offs already.

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01-04-2013, 07:29 AM
  #265
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"The union objected to the league’s attempt in its most recent proposal to remove or alter major penalties on teams that hide or do not report their full, annual Hockey Related Revenue (HRR). The NHL withdrew its proposed change after hearing the players’ objections in a small-group afternoon meeting, but the union viewed the NHL’s attempt at changing the HRR language as sneaky."

Hmm, the union doesn't like that the league wants to remove or change penalties for it's teams committing fraud against the players. Nah, the players should just get over it as it was just a misunderstanding.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ho...#ixzz2H0sLh6Pw

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01-04-2013, 07:30 AM
  #266
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If it does start this season it'll start on a Saturday so as not to clash with the NFL play-offs.
More accurately two Saturdays from now, which happens to be the 19th. The next two Saturdays have a pair of NFL playoff games.

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01-04-2013, 07:31 AM
  #267
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Tweeted by who? The source was a LEAGUE OFFICIAL. Nah, he doesn't have any reason to lie. But, I guess if it was written on twitter it HAS to be true.
So if it fits your narrative it's true but if not, then its a lie. Good stuff.

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01-04-2013, 07:32 AM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
"The union objected to the league’s attempt in its most recent proposal to remove or alter major penalties on teams that hide or do not report their full, annual Hockey Related Revenue (HRR). The NHL withdrew its proposed change after hearing the players’ objections in a small-group afternoon meeting, but the union viewed the NHL’s attempt at changing the HRR language as sneaky."

Hmm, the union doesn't like that the league wants to remove or change penalties for it's teams committing fraud against the players. Nah, the players should just get over it as it was just a misunderstanding.

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/sports/ho...#ixzz2H0sLh6Pw
ok so they agreed to put things back the way they were, so lets keep our panties in a bunch and not try and make a deal and lose a full season worth of salaries. that makes sense.

was it sneaky? yeah for sure, but i know if i had a couple million on the line id put that aside for a little bit and put my best foot forward to getting the rest of the deal done. once these primadonna's realize that, they'll get it done

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01-04-2013, 07:33 AM
  #269
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More accurately two Saturdays from now, which happens to be the 19th. The next two Saturdays have a pair of NFL playoff games.
There's no way they'd start tomorrow anyway.

Think the 19th is the date whenever they get a deal done.

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01-04-2013, 07:36 AM
  #270
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i think the whole situation is ridiculous and both sides know what they got to do to get this done and no one wants to make the first move.
if they are gonna sit here and drag this out to the last minute to only get a deal done anyway then they should at least come clean and say so and stop wasting our time.

and if they are gonna end up disagreeing and cancel the season then do so now, why wait? get it over with.

the league and the players better start showing the fans some more respect because in the end we are the ones who pay the bills and have stood by this league through thick and thin and you can have all the rich owners and the best players in the world and it will not mean squat if the buildings are empty.

my loyalty is to the sport of hockey not the nhl and if i had easy access to other leagues to watch i could care less what these clowns do.
as long as i see 10 guys chasing down a puck it really makes no difference to me whether they are nhl, ahl , college, high school or pee wees.

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01-04-2013, 07:37 AM
  #271
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ok so they agreed to put things back the way they were, so lets keep our panties in a bunch and not try and make a deal and lose a full season worth of salaries. that makes sense.

was it sneaky? yeah for sure, but i know if i had a couple million on the line id put that aside for a little bit and put my best foot forward to getting the rest of the deal done. once these primadonna's realize that, they'll get it done
Besides, that's what each side is paying its lawyers millions of dollars for, to find these 'little' changes. This is the most unneccesary issue of a totally unneccesary labor war...if you're the league why would you even bother changing something that would OBVIOUSLY cause the other side to think you're trying to encourage cheating and hiding HRR? Of course Fehr and his hard-liners saved this little info just when negotiations were on an uptick, they did not miss it for an entire week.

I have no use for any of these morons.

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01-04-2013, 07:39 AM
  #272
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
So, because he doesn't trust Bettman and the owners, it means he is simply drinking Fehr's Kool-Aid? Got it.

For years we all heard Bettman yap about how well the league was doing, how the cap and "partnership" with the players has been great for all teams, how the league is thriving. All of a sudden, CBA is up and things are in dire straits. But right, it is the players who are drinking Kool-aid for not trusting what Bettman has to say. His job is to make as much money for the owners as possible and the trend has been to do so by taking from the players. Shouldn't take a nuclear physicist to figure out why the players don't trust the man.

Oh wait, should he just keep his mouth shut? I forgot, freedom of speech only exists when you are saying something considered PC, nowadays.
An article I read about a month ago was talking about how corporations and governments would pay people to go to online fora and try to sway opinion. Didn't really believe it at the time.

This irrational vitriol for the players has me reconsidering.

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01-04-2013, 07:40 AM
  #273
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
Besides, that's what each side is paying its lawyers millions of dollars for, to find these 'little' changes. This is the most unneccesary issue of a totally unneccesary labor war...if you're the league why would you even bother changing something that would OBVIOUSLY cause the other side to think you're trying to encourage cheating and hiding HRR? Of course Fehr and his hard-liners saved this little info just when negotiations were on an uptick, they did not miss it for an entire week.

I have no use for any of these morons.
lebrun hit the nail on the head and you did as well. there is no point to this fight at all. none.

did the league need to do that? no, it shouldnt have. and the PA either is stupid for bringing it up and throwing a hissy fit so late about it, or were too stupid to realize it was in there in the first place.

whatever the issue is however, they settled it, but now the "trust" is gone. shut the **** up and make a deal already.

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01-04-2013, 07:42 AM
  #274
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An article I read about a month ago was talking about how corporations and governments would pay people to go to online fora and try to sway opinion. Didn't really believe it at the time.

This irrational vitriol for the players has me reconsidering.
You could be on to something with a couple posters here...

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01-04-2013, 07:44 AM
  #275
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Tweeted by who? The source was a LEAGUE OFFICIAL. Nah, he doesn't have any reason to lie. But, I guess if it was written on twitter it HAS to be true.
Typical. So we are just to make up what we want to believe at this point? I'm not sure that's the best way to discuss. We aren't in the meetings so there will ALWAYS be a gray area. All we can do is go off what we hear.

So a blatant lie for no reason when it was already cleared up? Come on, now. No room for conspiracy theories.

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