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NHL Lockout Discussion XLIV: The Night and the Silent Water

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01-04-2013, 09:41 AM
  #376
Diamondillium
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
What are his qualifications?
Majored in economics at princeton, with his big thesis paper being on a labor dispute going on at the time.

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01-04-2013, 09:41 AM
  #377
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The NHL has held firm on all deadlines so I hope they dont think they can push this past the 11th!!
The NHL hasn't held firm on 'anything' yet, that's the problem. The October offer that would only get worse? It didn't. The December offer where everything talked about was off the table? It came back on now, with more besides. The 'hill to die on' got a bit higher.

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01-04-2013, 09:41 AM
  #378
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Why bring it up while the league was actually negotiating for the first time? I'm sure the lawyers found this sooner but they didn't want to derail talks.
I'm sorry, but this doesn't make any sense to me. What would they have done if the talks hadn't gone "off the rails", and both sides had come to the point that they were ready to sign an agreement in principle?

"Hey guys, I know it is the 11th hour and you are ready to sign the CBA and get back to work...but before you do that you might want to know that a little while ago we noticed this little change in that document they sent to us over a week ago..."

If I were a player that either comes across as gross incompetence or willfully holding back vital information that would been a lot more helpful at the time it came to light. Either way, I would be irate.

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01-04-2013, 09:41 AM
  #379
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Not sure if any team has been accused, but logic says with stiffer penalties it is less likely teams would try. Would you seriously put it past any team to cook the books?

Why aren't the 4 players qualified? Not sure on the other 3, but Parros did go to Princeton. They do not admit stupid people.
Who is more qualified to negotiate a labour agreement...hockey players or labour lawyers(and the NHLPA has the resources to hire the best so that's not even a question) regardless of where they went to Univ?

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01-04-2013, 09:42 AM
  #380
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Report: NHL season to be cancelled Thursday if no deal by then... http://sulia.com/my_thoughts/4e85ba9...source=twitter
https://twitter.com/adater/status/287219342985265152

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01-04-2013, 09:43 AM
  #381
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Originally Posted by Diamondillium View Post
Majored in economics at princeton, with his big thesis paper being on a labor dispute going on at the time.
Thanks. Didn't know if he had actually done stuff related to this or his qualification was "going to Princeton."

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01-04-2013, 09:43 AM
  #382
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When are the buyouts going to happen? Before a shortened season or after?

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01-04-2013, 09:44 AM
  #383
Lorenzo1000
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I somewhat agree on some Parts of this, but it seems odd that you highlight Parros as one of the "unqualified". If any player is qualified to be there, it's him.
I just posted the names I could remember and the "et al" term implies that I was referring to the entire group. And I said "under qualified" not unqualified. I meant no disrespect. I just feel that they would be better represented by professionals in an endeavour of this size and importance.


Last edited by Lorenzo1000: 01-04-2013 at 10:16 AM.
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01-04-2013, 09:45 AM
  #384
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Originally Posted by Lorenzo1000 View Post
Who is more qualified to negotiate a labour agreement...hockey players or labour lawyers(and the NHLPA has the resources to hire the best so that's not even a question) regardless of where they went to Univ?
But, you are acting like they are doing this on their own, they are not. The hired the best labor negotiator in the world to help them.

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01-04-2013, 09:46 AM
  #385
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Alfie was on Ottawa radio this morning and basically said part of the reason this is going so bad is that the first proposal the owners sent them was sooooo bad they are actually still pissed off about it.

He didn't say that directly but that in a nutshell.

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01-04-2013, 09:47 AM
  #386
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It doesn't just have to be 1 guy, that was just the example. Let's say a team is at $59MM and has room for 2 more players, that is $3MM each. It basically, helps the mid-level salary guys.

The top guys are going to get hit the hardest in escrow in terms of actual $, the bottom guys are going to get close to the minimum regardless of the numbers. Where it helps is the guys in the middle. At a $60MM cap, a middle of the road guy might get $2MM. With each team having an extra $5MM to spend, it could easily move him up to $3MM. They would need to lose at least 33% on escrow in order for that player to lose out. If they were losing 33% at $65MM, they are certainly going to be losing money at $60MM.
Honestly - this is the what happens with no rollback. A salary rollback doesn't necessarily help the owners (because each team has an overall salary budget), but it helps more fairly allocate the salary between NHLPA members with existing contracts and the RFA/UFA's after the new cap. The NHLPA seems to be counting on the owners taking advantage of the amnesty buy-out's to create cap space to pay them more $'s.

I totally agree that that this is a totally bogus issue to hold the negotiations up for. Have the greater differential between the cap and the floor for 1 season and be done with it. The league didn't seem to get too worked up over the Islanders having Niederrieter doing nothing on the roster solely because he had a $3+M cap hit with his bonuses. How did that help the "competitive balance" of the league?

In any event, the % difference between the PA proposed cap/floor of $67M/$44M is still a significantly smaller % than under the first year of the previous CBA when the cap/floor was $39M/$23M. Don't see what is magical about the $16M "spread". The "spread" should always have been based on a % basis rather than a fixed dollar amount because the % differential shrinks as revenues increase.

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01-04-2013, 09:47 AM
  #387
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I think he will.
Fehr told the baseball players the league would never cancel the world series and told the NHL players that the league would not let the winter classic go.

Now his greatest test-is he really going to get all these players to let him go past the deadline and lose the season-so now he a can go after the cap etc-or will there be dissension in the ranks?

You would think they would have caught on about how they have been played,if they haven't this last manufactured flap over HRR made it perfectly clear.

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01-04-2013, 09:47 AM
  #388
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Alfie was on Ottawa radio this morning and basically said part of the reason this is going so bad is that the first proposal the owners sent them was sooooo bad they are actually still pissed off about it.

He didn't say that directly but that in a nutshell.
Well I'm still pissed off that realignment didn't go through.

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01-04-2013, 09:48 AM
  #389
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The NHL hasn't held firm on 'anything' yet, that's the problem. The October offer that would only get worse? It didn't. The December offer where everything talked about was off the table? It came back on now, with more besides. The 'hill to die on' got a bit higher.
They have canceled everything when they said they would!! 82 Game schedule was pulled when they said it would, Winter Classic canned when they said it would etc. Thursday is coming quick time for the PA to stop playing games becuase the season will be cancelled Thursday!!

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01-04-2013, 09:49 AM
  #390
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Yeah, this isn't going to end well. Can't ****ing believe they are going to lose a season over pensions and $5 million on next years cap. If you told me those would be the remaining issues that prevented a deal from being done I probably would've laughed in your face. This marks the first time I truly lost all hope.

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01-04-2013, 09:49 AM
  #391
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Rob Rossi ‏@RobRossi_Trib
Told if next few days 'go badly' for #NHL and #nhlpa there is likely to be 'quick development' with a certain #C in Pittsburgh. @penguins
https://twitter.com/RobRossi_Trib/st...24018313027584

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01-04-2013, 09:49 AM
  #392
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Originally Posted by BK201 View Post
Alfie was on Ottawa radio this morning and basically said part of the reason this is going so bad is that the first proposal the owners sent them was sooooo bad they are actually still pissed off about it.

He didn't say that directly but that in a nutshell.
At least they put one in, the players took a month to reply but now they can do it in 24 hours...

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01-04-2013, 09:50 AM
  #393
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It doesn't make allot of sense to postpone announcing the cancellation of the season past next Thursday if 48 games is indeed the magic number.

Can they actually get all the players back from wherever they are....... have some semblance of a training camp and get ready for puck drop in 8 days?

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01-04-2013, 09:51 AM
  #394
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Originally Posted by NJDevs26 View Post
The NHL hasn't held firm on 'anything' yet, that's the problem. The October offer that would only get worse? It didn't. The December offer where everything talked about was off the table? It came back on now, with more besides. The 'hill to die on' got a bit higher.
- Language in December was "as of now" the previous offer is off the table, not that it was completely done. The NHL did that in response to their perception that the PA "moved the goalposts" and Fehrs blatantly false press conference. The NHL brought the offer back in an attempt to restart negotiations (a good thing, wouldn't you say?).

- The height of the "hill to die on" was never specified, just that it was a make-or-break aspect for the owners.

- Why would anyone expect either side in this to put their best offer first, second or third? The PA dictated this process the second they hired Fehr. Do you honestly think the owners don't/didn't know what type of negotiator Fehr is?

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01-04-2013, 09:51 AM
  #395
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Yeah, this isn't going to end well. Can't ****ing believe they are going to lose a season over pensions and $5 million on next years cap. If you told me those would be the remaining issues that prevented a deal from being done I probably would've laughed in your face. This marks the first time I truly lost all hope.
Pensions have been known to kill many a company. Many industries here in Canada are failing noe because they can't meet there pension plans that were negotiated with unions years ago. Pensions are definitley not small thing for either side.

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01-04-2013, 09:51 AM
  #396
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What's that mean?

Edit: Duh. Never mind.

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01-04-2013, 09:52 AM
  #397
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What's that mean?
Probably that Crosby will go play in Europe.

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01-04-2013, 09:52 AM
  #398
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Good news. Pat Brisson, Crosby and others have supposedly been working to save the season. Need people who actually care about the NHL to step in and stop this madness.

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Old
01-04-2013, 09:53 AM
  #399
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What's that mean?

Edit: Duh. Never mind.
Rossi doesn't even know. He's just speculating that if the season is cancelled, Sid will play w/ Geno overseas. Rob Rossi is a complete joke.

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01-04-2013, 09:53 AM
  #400
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If the season gets cancelled next week, I think we finally see Bettman let go. He had his warning from the owners. Daly may be on the hot seat as well.

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