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NHL Lockout Discussion XLIV: The Night and the Silent Water

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Old
01-04-2013, 10:51 AM
  #476
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Originally Posted by Noreaster96 View Post
I was working yesterday and missed alot... what exactly happened that is causing such a fuss now?
Media said that NHL changed the language of HRR after the NHLPA's ability to file a disclaimer of interest expired.

Then media said that NHL changed the language of HRR last week, denoted in bolded underlined highlighted text but that the NHLPA's lawyers didn't catch the changes until yesterday.

Then media said it only had to do with penalties regarding false HRR accounting.

Now media says trust is shattered. Who the hell knows. I blame the media.

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01-04-2013, 10:51 AM
  #477
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I could see one side or the other (or both) screwing up an "agreement in principle" before it gets finalized.

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01-04-2013, 10:51 AM
  #478
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Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
Thank you for the clarification, I was under the assumption that if the NHL gave the PA it's 65 million cap for year 2, that the 50/50 wouldn't truly begin until year 3, but if I was assuming wrong I am glad you cleared it up.
That's what is so frustrating for me. The actual cap number has ZERO impact on the what the owners are going to actually going to pay out after escrow. The reason they're giving (competitive balance) seems REALLY flimsy considering the number of teams actually impacted, and the fact that is only for one season.

From my perspective - you worry about the LONG TERM affects on the game, not the stuff that is only for one year and really only impact 1-2 teams (that will likely be bad regardless). It's not like the Isles having Niederrieter on the roster, or considering the Yashin buy-out (if that's still happening) for their cap hits helps the team be competitive.

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01-04-2013, 10:51 AM
  #479
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Noreaster96 View Post
I was working yesterday and missed alot... what exactly happened that is causing such a fuss now?
From what we know, yesterday morning there was a report that the NHLPA was upset over "changes to penalties for Teams 'hiding' HRR". The matter was quickly settled as the NHL went back to the old penalties that were apart of this previous CBA.

Apparently that turned into Players actually believing that the NHL were in fact "hiding HRR" money. And led even further to an "eroding of trust" as some reporters have called it.

The NHL put out word that the changes to the Penalties for hiding HRR money was actually apart of the proposal that they made to the PA on 12/27/12 and was even bolded and marked. So one would have to wonder, HOW did the Union miss this for an entire week? OR were the Fehr's purposely holding this out to use in a situation like this?

Apparently that small thing yesterday caused enough of a disruption in this process that they did not meet for any official bargaining sessions yesterday, and thus far this morning the only thing going on is meetings with a Mediator. No official bargaining sessions have been set as of yet.

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01-04-2013, 10:52 AM
  #480
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Didn't they say, or rather people said, that an agreement in principle would mean the need for a few days to sign it all. Or could they do the training camps whilst doing that?

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01-04-2013, 10:54 AM
  #481
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No bargaining session at all today according to Panaccio.This is over. No season.

****

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01-04-2013, 10:54 AM
  #482
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Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
No bargaining session at all today. This is over. No season.

****
It's 12:00.

Plenty of time to meet.

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01-04-2013, 10:54 AM
  #483
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
From what we know, yesterday morning there was a report that the NHLPA was upset over "changes to penalties for Teams 'hiding' HRR". The matter was quickly settled as the NHL went back to the old penalties that were apart of this previous CBA.

Apparently that turned into Players actually believing that the NHL were in fact "hiding HRR" money. And led even further to an "eroding of trust" as some reporters have called it.

The NHL put out word that the changes to the Penalties for hiding HRR money was actually apart of the proposal that they made to the PA on 12/27/12 and was even bolded and marked. So one would have to wonder, HOW did the Union miss this for an entire week? OR were the Fehr's purposely holding this out to use in a situation like this?

Apparently that small thing yesterday caused enough of a disruption in this process that they did not meet for any official bargaining sessions yesterday, and thus far this morning the only thing going on is meetings with a Mediator. No official bargaining sessions have been set as of yet.




If we lose a season over some malarkey like that guess who will never even watch another hockey game on TV

This guy

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01-04-2013, 10:55 AM
  #484
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
No bargaining session at all today. This is over. No season.

****
Gotta love HF!

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01-04-2013, 10:55 AM
  #485
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Given how close the two sides are now, I think mediation could be very effective.

It is more of a penultimate step than an ultimate step, however.

Both sides can reveal more to a third party than they can to each other in negotiations. The NHL can openly tell the mediator "This is how far we would go," and the NHLPA can openly tell the mediator "This is how far we would go," and then the mediator can let them each know whether or not there is any overlap. Of course, this opens up opportunities for both sides to be dishonest, but a good mediator can tell when this is happening (it's obvious) and tease out an honest answer.

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01-04-2013, 10:55 AM
  #486
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
No bargaining session at all today. This is over. No season.

****
It's not that there won't be any, it's that there are none scheduled as of now.

However, it certainly doesn't look likely that we'll have formal face-to-face negotiation today.

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01-04-2013, 10:56 AM
  #487
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
Gotta love HF!
Panaccio on twitter says no meetings at all.

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01-04-2013, 10:57 AM
  #488
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Panaccio on twitter says no meetings at all.
Because twitter's been 100% reliable all the way through?

There's a small meeting now I believe with mediators.

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01-04-2013, 10:58 AM
  #489
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David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod
All the negativity over the last 18hrs, I hadn't personally heard any doom+gloom directly from anyone involved in negotiations... until now

https://twitter.com/TheFourthPeriod/...40903020646400

Hopefully he'll expand on what this doom and gloom is...

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01-04-2013, 10:58 AM
  #490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
At least an Agreement in Principle would bring about the mass "homecoming" if you will of the NHLers that are overseas. And it wouldn't be too far off to believe that Training Camps could even open up with an Agreement in Principle
I think they'll know this well enough to make the call for them to come back.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubba Thudd View Post
I could see one side or the other (or both) screwing up an "agreement in principle" before it gets finalized.
This is why I'd rather they skip it.

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Old
01-04-2013, 10:59 AM
  #491
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Panaccio on twitter says no meetings at all.
So far I've just heard no meetings are planned, yet. We'll see what happens after they're done with the mediators.


Besides, if there are no talks today I'd expect them to take the weekend off and get closer to the deadline before meeting.

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01-04-2013, 10:59 AM
  #492
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
David Pagnotta ‏@TheFourthPeriod
All the negativity over the last 18hrs, I hadn't personally heard any doom+gloom directly from anyone involved in negotiations... until now

https://twitter.com/TheFourthPeriod/...40903020646400

Hopefully he'll expand on what this doom and gloom is...
These reporters are vague

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Old
01-04-2013, 11:00 AM
  #493
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Originally Posted by Noreaster96 View Post




If we lose a season over some malarkey like that guess who will never even watch another hockey game on TV

This guy
Now I could have understood the entire situation all wrong, I've been known be wrong on things, but that's the only thing that I believe happened yesterday that caused all of this to happen.

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01-04-2013, 11:01 AM
  #494
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Someone post Pagnotta tweet

Uh oh...

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01-04-2013, 11:01 AM
  #495
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From David Pagnotta's article

"Donald Fehr was given the power to file the Disclaimer. He didn't, and now it's been widely reported that the NHL took advantage of that and talks have shifted negatively ever since the deadline to file passed."

Everything was going pretty well and then the NHL had to go and **** it all up!

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01-04-2013, 11:01 AM
  #496
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What doom and gloom?
I got a paycheque and the players didn't.

I'm ok with that.

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01-04-2013, 11:02 AM
  #497
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It was obvious nothing was going to get done until the last possible day. They might have as well spared everyone the time and just met on 10th, one day is enough to solve this in its entirety if there's the desire from both sides to do so.

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01-04-2013, 11:04 AM
  #498
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockLobster View Post
From what we know, yesterday morning there was a report that the NHLPA was upset over "changes to penalties for Teams 'hiding' HRR". The matter was quickly settled as the NHL went back to the old penalties that were apart of this previous CBA.

Apparently that turned into Players actually believing that the NHL were in fact "hiding HRR" money. And led even further to an "eroding of trust" as some reporters have called it.

The NHL put out word that the changes to the Penalties for hiding HRR money was actually apart of the proposal that they made to the PA on 12/27/12 and was even bolded and marked. So one would have to wonder, HOW did the Union miss this for an entire week? OR were the Fehr's purposely holding this out to use in a situation like this?

Apparently that small thing yesterday caused enough of a disruption in this process that they did not meet for any official bargaining sessions yesterday, and thus far this morning the only thing going on is meetings with a Mediator. No official bargaining sessions have been set as of yet.
Thanks for the summary. Damn, those sheep-players are like stupid robots, doing exactly as programmed by the Fehr(s).

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Old
01-04-2013, 11:04 AM
  #499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CBJBrassard16 View Post
Panaccio on twitter says no meetings at all.
I wouldn't read into that too much. He's been a pessimist throughout the whole lockout. He generally spins things on the negative side.

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Old
01-04-2013, 11:04 AM
  #500
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sharks9 View Post
From David Pagnotta's article

"Donald Fehr was given the power to file the Disclaimer. He didn't, and now it's been widely reported that the NHL took advantage of that and talks have shifted negatively ever since the deadline to file passed."

Everything was going pretty well and then the NHL had to go and **** it all up!
Translation...Wahhhhh the NHL won't give us what we want!!! It must be because we can't file that disclaimer thingie!!! We'll fix their wagon!!!


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