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NHL Lockout Discussion XLIV: The Night and the Silent Water

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Old
01-04-2013, 11:19 AM
  #526
Shoalzie
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Originally Posted by Savagestevo View Post
Smells like this is the blow up I kind of anticipated. Both sides back off and show some frustration towards each other. With the deadline a week away...they'll eventually talk again and make the final push to get this done under the wire.

My worst fear is the league won't budge anymore and the season on life support...talking again won't lead to any further breakthroughs and it gets really ugly. The union fractures and the season dies an ugly death.

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01-04-2013, 11:19 AM
  #527
Meanashell11
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Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
Do you see anything in these lists of program options that would suggest that a graduate would have the skills and knowledge to cope with a high level labour negotiation?

Links:

http://www.princeton.edu/main/academics/departments/

http://www.princeton.edu/main/academ...s/certificate/
How about the Industrial Relations section of the Economics program?

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01-04-2013, 11:19 AM
  #528
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
Yep.........I understand that for sure. I'm confused though that, technically from what I have read, DOI doesn't even require a vote. So it sounds like an internal NHLPA thingamajiggy they have in place. Their own deadline expired without their expected results whatever they may have been.
There is the opinion that if the NHLPA disclaims interest, a cancelled season will come soon after.

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01-04-2013, 11:19 AM
  #529
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Originally Posted by Oscar Acosta View Post
I wouldn't worry about the "unanimous" part as the players just do what they're told and buy into anything Fehr lays out for them.
Depends on what unanimous means. If it's 100%, I don't think the PA will get everybody voting yes. If it's 95%+, then its not a concern.

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01-04-2013, 11:20 AM
  #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoalzie View Post
Smells like this is the blow up I kind of anticipated. Both sides back off and show some frustration towards each other. With the deadline a week away...they'll eventually talk again and make the final push to get this done under the wire.

My worst fear is the league won't budge anymore and the season on life support...talking again won't lead to any further breakthroughs and it gets really ugly. The union fractures and the season dies an ugly death.
Well you started out optimistic.

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01-04-2013, 11:21 AM
  #531
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It was obvious nothing was going to get done until the last possible day. They might have as well spared everyone the time and just met on 10th, one day is enough to solve this in its entirety if there's the desire from both sides to do so.
This.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrzeigler
How many others are asking themselves, "why the **** do I keep looking here? Do I really hate myself that much?"
And also this.


Nothing significant is going to happen today or tomorrow, because nothing has to happen. The issues remaining are small and easily negotiated. The only thing left to do is squeeze, squeeze, squeeze. Let the clock tick and bluff like crazy. This isn't bargaining, it's the same game of chicken that we got for 2 weeks in December.

I've been following it closely till now, but I'm probably going to stop checking for updates during the day until at least Monday. There is not one single reason to believe that these "negotiators" are going to change their deadline-centric strategy, so hanging on every moment is a waste of time and attention.

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01-04-2013, 11:21 AM
  #532
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Someone mentioned this a couple of weeks ago, and I agree with him. At this point it's clear that they just want the weekends off.

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01-04-2013, 11:22 AM
  #533
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Gary Bettman infuriated players across the table from him at NHL headquarters on Thursday — and, by extension, NHLPA membership — by claiming that a number of general managers had told him they regret some of the contracts they’d previously handed out and would welcome the opportunity to “dismantle” their teams in order to meet the steep drop to the league’s proposed $60 million cap for 2013-14, sources have told The Post.

The players responded with a mixture of anger and skepticism, demanding to know the identity of these alleged GM’s. Bettman refused to name the straw men in seeking to counter the players’ position that adopting a $60M cap — even with two amnesty buyouts — would be punitive against big-market, big-spending franchises.

The incident, which the PA interpreted as an indication of the Canceler-in-Chief's lack of respect for the athletes, serves as an example of why negotiations between the NHL and union broke down on Thursday after having taken previous baby-steps toward resolving Owners’ Lockout III.

The union believes the league’s stance changed after PA executive director Don Fehr decided against filing a disclaimer of interest at Wednesday’s midnight deadline that would have sent the dispute into court. The PA believes the NHL pulled a bait and switch in the immediate aftermath of Fehr’s continued commitment to the collective bargaining process.
http://www.nypost.com/p/blogs/slapsh...#axzz2H1oJNPEN

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01-04-2013, 11:23 AM
  #534
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This whole thing just keeps becoming more and more of a joke. Every single time some traction is reached it's met with equal resistance.I just don't understand the thought process of these people... lets offer final offers with no room to budge and shut down talks completely when they're not accepted only to return 3 weeks later and up that offer. Then when talks start to get traction against, lets try to change the definition of HRR quietly again in a 300 page proposal just because and when it's found out agree to go back to original definition immediately... it's all just so retarded

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01-04-2013, 11:24 AM
  #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
I assumed unanimous meant 100%, but if it's 90% or higher, then yes, we'll have the same results.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Noreaster96 View Post
I dont think 90% is unanimous... unless theres specific language there that dictates that?
You're both correct, and I hope they don't hold that definition to its fullest value.

I think they have a right to use it even if only 20 people out of almost 800 don't agree.

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01-04-2013, 11:24 AM
  #536
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nki View Post
It was obvious nothing was going to get done until the last possible day. They might have as well spared everyone the time and just met on 10th, one day is enough to solve this in its entirety if there's the desire from both sides to do so.
Problem with leaving it till the last minute is with the egos and hypersensitive people on both sides all it would take is Fehr finding one little inconsistency or Bettman playing too much hardball for the 'last minute' play book to blow up.

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01-04-2013, 11:24 AM
  #537
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Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
Depends on what unanimous means. If it's 100%, I don't think the PA will get everybody voting yes. If it's 95%+, then its not a concern.
How are those thinking like Hamrlik going to vote - assuming they are not brainwashed? Is he voting no to get a deal done. Or is he voting yes so he can distance himself as far as possible from Fehr and his favorite party goers.

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01-04-2013, 11:25 AM
  #538
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
From: http://www.thefourthperiod.com/colum.../dp130104.html


"As the NHLPA conducts another vote to file -- according TSN's Aaron Ward, it'll now require a unanimous vote in order to happen -- the Players and the League will be meeting separately with a mediator today, and no bargaining sessions have been scheduled"

I found the bolded part particularly interesting.
Probably Fehr doesn't want to actually file as it would mean that he has to walk away and if someone else became the prime negotiator, who knows, there might be an agreement.

He doesn't want to lose control and maybe he wants a free hand to take the PA over the edge and is concerned that he will lose his chance if he has to walk away..

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01-04-2013, 11:26 AM
  #539
Mike Jones
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Originally Posted by Meanashell11 View Post
How about the Industrial Relations section of the Economics program?
Check the labour section. Nothing about negotiating CBAs.

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01-04-2013, 11:26 AM
  #540
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Not that it really matters but:

Kid POV: Owners Suck, My fav players rule.

Teenish POV: The PA has been very dirty, but the owners are just as dirty and deserves half the blame for the current position.

Adult POV: Business negotiation's can be relatively professional and clean with a little salt thrown, but can also get very dirty. The owners have thrown a bit of salt into the negotiations wound, Don Fehr has dragged the PA through the Sifto Salt Mine in Ontario and continually shakes them over the negotiation wound.




I would love to see anyone show how the owners have been absurdly unfair for the PA to drag this out, MIND YOU AT THE EXPENSE OF CUTTING THEIR OWN FOOT OFF BY LOSING BILLIONS IN SALARY'S TO MAINTAIN WHAT?

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01-04-2013, 11:27 AM
  #541
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nailor Hopberle View Post
Depends on what unanimous means. If it's 100%, I don't think the PA will get everybody voting yes. If it's 95%+, then its not a concern.
The definition of unanimous is 100% all it takes is a Roman Hamrlik to vote no.

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01-04-2013, 11:28 AM
  #542
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
Brooks is not worth reading at this point

He is basically Fehr's mouthpiece ,, Just look at the bias in every article

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01-04-2013, 11:28 AM
  #543
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
I'll bet on Holmgren and whoever the Minnesota GM is being two of them lol.

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01-04-2013, 11:28 AM
  #544
Mike Jones
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Originally Posted by pepty View Post
Probably Fehr doesn't want to actually file as it would mean that he has to walk away and if someone else became the prime negotiator, who knows, there might be an agreement.
As I understand the process it's more then Fehr walking away. The union itself seperates and walks away from the players. Wouldn't they have to find a new organization to help them pick up where things leave off?

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01-04-2013, 11:28 AM
  #545
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Originally Posted by Scoobs View Post
I wonder if the NHLPA is stalling until the vote is over. Maybe Fehr doesn't wish to negotiate without the threat of a DOI in his back pocket.

I'm sick of both sides, now.

Can 'em all.
Probably is in his front jacket pocket. Doesnt need a vote. All it needs is for Fehr to notify Bettman that they (the NHLPA) is disclaiming interest. I would expect he has that letter already written.

The vote is just a PR stunt and attempt at creating leverage through fear.

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01-04-2013, 11:28 AM
  #546
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Ive been mostly neutral throughout the process but im on the owners side now.

The latest debacles are all PA manufactured.

So apparently the union is mad that Fehr didnt disclaim interest. Well guys, you gave him the hammer and told him to do what he saw fit. He didnt swing it. Live with the decision. I like this Gary took advantage of the situation nonsense ~ WTF was he supposed to do? Back down because a deadline was approaching? Curl up in the fetal position over the threat.

Now this HRR thing. The NHL has steadfastly claimed they highlighted/flagged the changes. The PA has had the document for almost a week before noticing. That is no ones fault but the PA lawyers and the negotiating commitee, who claimed they were taking three days to read over the thing after it was presented.

Now this BS that they're still angry over the first proposal. Unbelievably im starting to think maybe Fehr hasnt been so bad through this process. Maybe its been the players since the get go.

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01-04-2013, 11:28 AM
  #547
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Originally Posted by NYRFAN218 View Post
they sound like a bunch of babies

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01-04-2013, 11:28 AM
  #548
TieClark
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frivolousz21 View Post
Not that it really matters but:

Kid POV: Owners Suck, My fav players rule.

Teenish POV: The PA has been very dirty, but the owners are just as dirty and deserves half the blame for the current position.

Adult POV: Business negotiation's can be relatively professional and clean with a little salt thrown, but can also get very dirty. The owners have thrown a bit of salt into the negotiations wound, Don Fehr has dragged the PA through the Sifto Salt Mine in Ontario and continually shakes them over the negotiation wound.




I would love to see anyone show how the owners have been absurdly unfair for the PA to drag this out, MIND YOU AT THE EXPENSE OF CUTTING THEIR OWN FOOT OFF BY LOSING BILLIONS IN SALARY'S TO MAINTAIN WHAT?
Shutting down talks completely if the PA doesn't accept their proposal only to come back 3 weeks later with a better proposal isn't "unfair"? Trying to change the definition of HRR a month after it had been agreed upon isn't "unfair"? It's absurd to try and act like the owners are just doing a typical business negotiation and the PA is playing dirty.

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01-04-2013, 11:30 AM
  #549
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Originally Posted by cheesedanish87 View Post
The definition of unanimous is 100% all it takes is a Roman Hamrlik to vote no.
That would be sad.

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01-04-2013, 11:30 AM
  #550
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Originally Posted by pepty View Post
Probably Fehr doesn't want to actually file as it would mean that he has to walk away and if someone else became the prime negotiator, who knows, there might be an agreement.

He doesn't want to lose control and maybe he wants a free hand to take the PA over the edge and is concerned that he will lose his chance if he has to walk away..
LeBrun raised that point too. It's not out of the realm of possibility considering what happened the one time Fehr was out of the room and what happened after he got back in.

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