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NHL Lockout Discussion XLIV: The Night and the Silent Water

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Old
01-04-2013, 11:43 AM
  #576
MacOfNiagara
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IMO of these negotiations, Fehr is the main driving force behind the dragging out of the timeline. Likely because he thinks he can get a better deal (leaving the lost revenue debate out of it for now).

When things get real bad he moves towards saying things are close, and they are willing to work on a deal.

When things get too close to being resolved he stirs the pot and derails the negotiations.

Keeping the whole process bogged down in the middle.

My big question is he doing this (and will he continue to do this) until the breaking point for this season (Jan 10th/11th)? Or does he intended to next week derail it again at the 11th hour and really intends for at least a full year of work stoppage.

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01-04-2013, 11:43 AM
  #577
Oscar Acosta
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Is there a more sensitive group around than the players? Like it's a shock some managers and owners regret the contracts they gave them. Have to really tiptoe around these egos.

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01-04-2013, 11:44 AM
  #578
smithy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Jones View Post
Do you see anything in these lists of program options that would suggest that a graduate would have the skills and knowledge to cope with a high level labour negotiation?

Links:

http://www.princeton.edu/main/academics/departments/

http://www.princeton.edu/main/academ...s/certificate/
Here's the only link that really matters to most people:
http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandre...l-universities

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01-04-2013, 11:44 AM
  #579
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Hmm, we've been waiting on line for awhile now to get on the optimism coaster after going on riding for 36 straight times. Looks like we will be getting back on the coaster shortly.

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Old
01-04-2013, 11:44 AM
  #580
mrzeigler
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MacOfNiagara View Post
u·nan·i·mous
/yo͞oˈnanəməs/
Adjective
(of two or more people) Fully in agreement.
(of an opinion, decision, or vote) Held or carried by everyone involved.

Although based on their use of language and definitions throughout the negotiations, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if the NHLPA had an alternative definition of unanimous.
If that's the case, Mrs. Slocombe is rolling over in her grave.

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01-04-2013, 11:45 AM
  #581
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If this is the big blow up then I'm even more optimistic then I was before.

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01-04-2013, 11:46 AM
  #582
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Originally Posted by frivolousz21 View Post

What do you think the operating costs differences are between the NFL and NHL?

Probably the NHL costs more or close to the same even with the bigger franchises and venue's because of the massive difference in games.

So we're supposed to just guess and make things up now?

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01-04-2013, 11:46 AM
  #583
AtlantaWhaler
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If this is the big blow up then I'm even more optimistic then I was before.
Yep...me too. This will last through the weekend and starting on Monday, they will have 3 days of meetings for a last ditch. We'll see what happens from there.

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01-04-2013, 11:46 AM
  #584
TieClark
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Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
Typical HFBoards statement. We are all blind? Why does everyone´s post have to be so dramatic???

First off it is North America where capitalism is showcased, secondly the players make a lot of money to shoot a puck(yes they are they best in the world), thirdly anyone who has been a business owner(I have) understand the owner´s position that, the one owning the business SHOULD stand to profit from it.

Why would I take the owners side? They make 57% while the owners make 43% of gross profit while eating losses.
It wasn't dramatic at all.. it was replying to several months of melodramatic people claiming the PA is solely to blame and Fehr is the devil.

You cannot compare a typical business to a professional sports team. Soccer, the most popular sport in the world has the most successful teams operating at a loss... the ownership is seen as a hobby and not a business. In the NHL the majority of teams do make a profit. The successful ones make a HUGE profit. An actor doesn't suffer if he does his job well but the movie he plays in loses money (unless he agreed to such terms). Similarly the players in professional sports do not suffer if they happen to play for a team that cannot make it's business work.

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01-04-2013, 11:46 AM
  #585
MacOfNiagara
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
This board has been pro owner for a long time now, but I just don't get the complete blindness. It's like their all die hard fans of Team Owners.

I disagree the owners have done a better job of that.. people keep ignoring the NHL continuously shuts down these talks after the PA submits an offer and then comes back several weeks later going back on their word with an offer improved from the last one that they said was take it or leave it.
I agree with you that the league has repeatedly made their offers better. That is why I generally side with the owners and not the NHLPA.

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01-04-2013, 11:47 AM
  #586
vanwest
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Originally Posted by Oscar Acosta View Post
Is there a more sensitive group around than the players? Like it's a shock some managers and owners regret the contracts they gave them. Have to really tiptoe around these egos.
Bettman seemed pretty sensitive a couple of weeks ago when he almost started crying about Fehr's tactics. And the so-called 'moderate' owners also acted pretty sensitive. It's business. Both sides are pushing the others' buttons.

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01-04-2013, 11:47 AM
  #587
hyduK
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Originally Posted by Oscar Acosta View Post
Is there a more sensitive group around than the players? Like it's a shock some managers and owners regret the contracts they gave them. Have to really tiptoe around these egos.
It shouldn't be a shock. But frankly, tough **** if the owners regret the contracts...shouldn't have issued them in the first place.

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01-04-2013, 11:47 AM
  #588
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
This board has been pro owner for a long time now, but I just don't get the complete blindness. It's like their all die hard fans of Team Owners.

I disagree the owners have done a better job of that.. people keep ignoring the NHL continuously shuts down these talks after the PA submits an offer and then comes back several weeks later going back on their word with an offer improved from the last one that they said was take it or leave it.
That literally never happened, not even once.

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01-04-2013, 11:48 AM
  #589
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Originally Posted by Ugene Malkin View Post
Does anyone understand this part and could clarify it?
From what I understand, the league is proposing a clause that says if the NHLPA can prove the league is hiding HRR they can re-negotiate the CBA.

I could be wrong though.

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01-04-2013, 11:48 AM
  #590
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Quote:
Originally Posted by heartsabres View Post
It is pretty pathetic that such a statement would offend the players. Who wouldn´t regret Scott Gomez´s contract?
I mean really. Even a casual fan is aware of bad contracts on the teams they follow. Obviously the players should already be aware of the bad contracts in the league. Negotiating a CBA is business and the players are letting their emotions get in the way of the facts.

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01-04-2013, 11:48 AM
  #591
OOOOIIIO
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Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice
Players ask for compliance buyouts. NHL agrees to 2. PA apparently upset now GMs would use buyouts to shed contracts they regret.Makes sense

https://twitter.com/TGfireandice/sta...53085909307392

This about sums up everything.

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01-04-2013, 11:48 AM
  #592
TieClark
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Originally Posted by frivolousz21 View Post
Oh the horrible owners continue to bend when they have nothing left to give to save the season knowing missing a full season will CRIPPLE THE NHL.


Basic's.

NFL 10 billion split 50/50 with players. 5 billion to 32 teams.

NHL 3 billion split 50/50 with players. 1.5 billion to 30 teams.


Get it? They don't have the money to give the players 50/50.

What do you think the operating costs differences are between the NFL and NHL?

Probably the NHL costs more or close to the same even with the bigger franchises and venue's because of the massive difference in games.


This is why MLS owners get like 80% of revenue

the NBA has a 50/50 split, NBA owners are still losing money, the NBA makes a billion more dollars than the NHL.



the NHL owners keep caving at the expense of league health to make sure a full season isn't missed or the NHL may never recover fully.
Way to use the most extreme example to make a point. Why not compare the NBA which is the closest pro league in terms of revenue? You know, a league that also just agreed to the most recent CBA in pro sports where the players got 51%?

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01-04-2013, 11:49 AM
  #593
frivolousz21
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We might be better off in the long run with the owners walking away, of course they would be sued by the players.

And lose the anti-trust status.

But revamping the league salary structure, which obviously would come with massive fan expense cuts like cheap tickets, 2$ beer, 1$ brat, 2$ cheeseburger so we can watch a few years of AHL players, players who cross, and young talent.

They would probably lower player costs by 80-90% and start fresh and not let it out of control so they don't have to pull every last dollar out of the fans in most markets to stay viable.



Folks can say whatever they want about the big bad owners but they want to make a bit of money, or break even and win.


If they can do that with 12 million dollar team salaries on 15 million profits, charging the fans 5-20$ tickets arena wide(didn't do the math) they will.

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01-04-2013, 11:49 AM
  #594
TieClark
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Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
That literally never happened, not even once.
No idea what you're referring to but everything I posted there did indeed happen

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01-04-2013, 11:50 AM
  #595
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Meh, my thoughts are that they absolutely hate each others guts so this is their last chance to get all of their dbagness out of their system before they actually come to an agreement. they both know the end is near so it's the last time to act like a baby and rub it in.

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01-04-2013, 11:50 AM
  #596
frivolousz21
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Originally Posted by TieClark View Post
Way to use the most extreme example to make a point. Why not compare the NBA which is the closest pro league in terms of revenue? You know, a league that also just agreed to the most recent CBA in pro sports where the players got 51%?

I said the NBA makes a billion more and is still losing money?

Do you even read the post's?


I am starting to think players post here, what team do you play for? Or maybe your a player's brother, mom, cousin?

Your not going to win this arguement, extreme or not, apples to apples, apples to chicken, it's not winnable.


If the owners were making money hand over fist and ****** the fans while not paying the players a fair shake, that is one thing, but that is not real.

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01-04-2013, 11:50 AM
  #597
TieClark
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Originally Posted by MacOfNiagara View Post
I agree with you that the league has repeatedly made their offers better. That is why I generally side with the owners and not the NHLPA.
The thing is, the PA has too. The only difference is the owners shut down talks when they don't accept it and refuse to talk for several weeks BEFORE upping their own offer

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01-04-2013, 11:51 AM
  #598
vanwest
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Originally Posted by MacOfNiagara View Post
I agree with you that the league has repeatedly made their offers better. That is why I generally side with the owners and not the NHLPA.
I don't take issue with people siding with one side or the other (although I think both bear responsibility for this mess). What I take issue is with people attacking the PA for the exact same tactics that they applaud the owners for. See for example, Bettman's emotional tirade a couple of weeks ago vs the players who are crybabies when they overreact, and the NHL backtracking on penalties for mistating HRR vs Fehr backtracking on changes.

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01-04-2013, 11:51 AM
  #599
luongo321
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Originally Posted by The Brovalchuk View Post
Tom Gulitti ‏@TGfireandice
Players ask for compliance buyouts. NHL agrees to 2. PA apparently upset now GMs would use buyouts to shed contracts they regret.Makes sense

https://twitter.com/TGfireandice/sta...53085909307392

This about sums up everything.



You've got to be kidding me.

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Old
01-04-2013, 11:51 AM
  #600
TieClark
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Originally Posted by frivolousz21 View Post
I said the NBA makes a billion more and is still losing money?

Do you even read the post's?
The NBA isn't losing money though... you seem to think that if crap teams lose money that it needs to be fixed by the players.

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