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NHL Lockout Discussion XLIV: The Night and the Silent Water

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Old
01-04-2013, 12:22 PM
  #701
sheed36
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Originally Posted by sunnydaycrash View Post
not that stupid, considering he knows he`d be a target for a buyout.....it`s all "team" until "me" is involved
With Scott Gomez and Tomas Kaberle on his team I don't think he's worried about being bought out. Gionta is still a useful player. The other 2 not so much anymore.

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01-04-2013, 12:22 PM
  #702
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I just read that there are reports that the league won't sign off on waivers to agree to continue negotiations with Don or Steve if the PA disclaims. I haven't really looked around but are there many people reporting this?

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01-04-2013, 12:22 PM
  #703
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
You supported the owners up until October?

Could you please link me to an owner-supporting post that you made back then?
Search yourself. I stated that the NHLPA should have brought a serious offer to the table much earlier in the negotaitions. This is not a good vs evil issue despite the efforts of many to see it that way.
I'd lay the blame heavily on both sides.

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01-04-2013, 12:23 PM
  #704
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Agreed. People try to analogize NHL players to ordinary employees and that's a flawed analogy. People pay to see Crosby etc play. They are not ordinary employees.
So 18000+ will pay hunderds of dollars to go see Crosby play on an outdoor rink? Or will they be willing to spend more money because of those beer and hot dog vendors in a nice brand new arena paid for by (owner/govt/lottery money) with all of the amenities.....

No one argues that the players aren't the biggest part of product. We're just saying that there's more to it than just the players. And to simplify it like that is counterproductive.

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01-04-2013, 12:24 PM
  #705
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Originally Posted by mrzeigler View Post
You're wrong. I don't pay high ticket/concession prices to have a loud beer vendor try to be entertaining. I pay high prices for hockey and that beer.

I don't care who hands me the nachos, as long as they're sanitary and hot. It doesn't take an extraordinary skillset or years of practice to be able to do that.

I DO care about who is skating on the ice. And I do expect the players to have extraordinary skillsets and have put in years of practice.
So you would be ok if the NHL owners cut the vendors. So you can come to the game, and have access to water fountains, vending machines with candy and chips, but no beer or hot food so they can cut costs to try and break even so the players can keep the current salary structure?



Your cool with that?

Or would less fans show up?

I bet the players would be very pissed if the NHL lost 5K fans per games do to no more concession stands.

It would end up cutting HRR by hundreds of millions, the Cap might drop from 60 mil to 53, then 48.

What if they lay off all workers selling merchandise, how about ticket reps?

That's an easy job too.


But you and the players would be cool with that right?

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01-04-2013, 12:24 PM
  #706
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
I just read that there are reports that the league won't sign off on waivers to agree to continue negotiations with Don or Steve if the PA disclaims. I haven't really looked around but are there many people reporting this?
Yup, it was quoted many times a thread or two ago.

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01-04-2013, 12:24 PM
  #707
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
I just read that there are reports that the league won't sign off on waivers to agree to continue negotiations with Don or Steve if the PA disclaims. I haven't really looked around but are there many people reporting this?
Yes that is being reported however I will have to find a specific quote saying so. Give me a few minutes.

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01-04-2013, 12:25 PM
  #708
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A week left and these idiots aren't even sure if they'll meet.

Let's be real, nothing is happening until the 11th.

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01-04-2013, 12:25 PM
  #709
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Originally Posted by MacOfNiagara View Post
Can't possibly be true. #ThreadCountProblems
I have a hard time believing it's true, but if it is, the threadcount issue might be there to establish the quality of a hotel. Kind of like how Van Halen used the infamous "brown M&M clause" to determine if the band was dealing with a professional promoter.

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01-04-2013, 12:25 PM
  #710
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
I just read that there are reports that the league won't sign off on waivers to agree to continue negotiations with Don or Steve if the PA disclaims. I haven't really looked around but are there many people reporting this?
I've seen this mentioned a few times during this gong show as well.

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01-04-2013, 12:25 PM
  #711
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Search yourself. I stated that the NHLPA should have brought a serious offer to the table much earlier in the negotaitions. This is not a good vs evil issue despite the efforts of many to see it that way.
Won't let me go back that far.

Anyhoo you are right, it is more of an educated businessman versus disgruntled employee issue.

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01-04-2013, 12:26 PM
  #712
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Originally Posted by LPHabsFan View Post
So 18000+ will pay hunderds of dollars to go see Crosby play on an outdoor rink? Or will they be willing to spend more money because of those beer and hot dog vendors in a nice brand new arena paid for by (owner/govt/lottery money) with all of the amenities.....

No one argues that the players aren't the biggest part of product. We're just saying that there's more to it than just the players. And to simplify it like that is counterproductive.
I never did argue that. I see it as more of a partnership with the owners having the bigger financial investment. But the people buying sweaters aren't getting Jacobs or Bettman's names on the back.

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01-04-2013, 12:27 PM
  #713
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WTF do the players think the reason would be to buyout a player? If a GM doesn't like a contract he'll buy him out. If you don't want buyouts don't ask for them to be included.

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01-04-2013, 12:27 PM
  #714
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Originally Posted by sunnydaycrash View Post
not that stupid, considering he knows he`d be a target for a buyout.....it`s all "team" until "me" is involved
Yes that stupid because no matter how it affects him personally, he's speaking out against something his own side initiated and negotiated for from the owners. I know Gionta is only one PA member but it doesn't make him look good when he spent two clips previous to that comment talking about how informed the PA is this time around only to turn around and say something that flies in the face of his PA's position.

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01-04-2013, 12:28 PM
  #715
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
Won't let me go back that far.

Anyhoo you are right, it is more of an educated businessman versus disgruntled employee issue.
I assume that you were just trying to give a good example of the black and white thinking that I was referring to.

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01-04-2013, 12:28 PM
  #716
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Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
I just read that there are reports that the league won't sign off on waivers to agree to continue negotiations with Don or Steve if the PA disclaims. I haven't really looked around but are there many people reporting this?
Why would they. DOI represents the NHLPA stating they no longer represent the players.

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01-04-2013, 12:28 PM
  #717
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I think it is pretty obvious that this gets done at the last moment or doesn't get done at all.

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01-04-2013, 12:29 PM
  #718
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
Thanks for the good example of the black and white thinking that I was referring to.
funny i was pretty sure this involved the business owners and their employees

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01-04-2013, 12:29 PM
  #719
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Originally Posted by MacOfNiagara View Post
Can't possibly be true. #ThreadCountProblems
Can you imagine a mediator going back and forth btwn the rooms with thread count numbers? I doubt it came to that, but how frigging ridiculous.

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01-04-2013, 12:30 PM
  #720
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Thanks for the replies. I wonder if these 'NHL leaks' or if the league actually communicated this. I would think that it would be used as a pressure tactic against the players to let them know that time is running out on the season and if they think they're going to disclaim and hurry up the process of a deal, then they better have someone else to come into the room for them to negotiate with. Either they stay as a PA and the league deals with Fehr or they disclaim and find someone else to bring into the room.

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Old
01-04-2013, 12:31 PM
  #721
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Originally Posted by AfroThunder396 View Post
So basically:

-The players specifically requested something
-The league agreed
-The players figured out that the thing they want might not be used in the WAY they want
-The players get ******** and don't want to cooperate anymore

Pretty much the entire lockout in a microcosm.
I really could not have wrapped it up better myself. The PA truly has no clue what it wants in these negotiations.

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01-04-2013, 12:31 PM
  #722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HockeyCrazed101 View Post
Thanks for the replies. I wonder if these 'NHL leaks' or if the league actually communicated this. I would think that it would be used as a pressure tactic against the players to let them know that time is running out on the season and if they think they're going to disclaim and hurry up the process of a deal, then they better have someone else to come into the room for them to negotiate with. Either they stay as a PA and the league deals with Fehr or they disclaim and find someone else to bring into the room.
The threat being rumored is that if the PA disclaims then the season will be cancelled and all bets are off in that they will most likely let this settle out in the courts.

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01-04-2013, 12:31 PM
  #723
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Originally Posted by RL605 View Post
A week left and these idiots aren't even sure if they'll meet.

Let's be real, nothing is happening until the 11th.
Quote:
Originally Posted by canucksfan View Post
I think it is pretty obvious that this gets done at the last moment or doesn't get done at all.
Yup.

Seems pretty clear NHLPA won't negotiate until they have the ability to DOI again come Sunday.

All the reporters covering this in NYC right now should to themselves a favor and get out of town or go home if they live in the area. Nothing is going to happen today or tomorrow.

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Old
01-04-2013, 12:32 PM
  #724
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Originally Posted by T-Funk View Post
funny i was pretty sure this involved the business owners and their employees
Nope. Even the NHL called it a partnership. Hence the 50/50 revenue share.
If you think the players are typical employees then we're not speaking the same language and everything is off the table as this is a hill that I will die on.

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Old
01-04-2013, 12:32 PM
  #725
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Originally Posted by mrzeigler View Post
You're wrong. I don't pay high ticket/concession prices to have a loud beer vendor try to be entertaining. I pay high prices for hockey and that beer.

I don't care who hands me the nachos, as long as they're sanitary and hot. It doesn't take an extraordinary skillset or years of practice to be able to do that.

I DO care about who is skating on the ice. And I do expect the players to have extraordinary skillsets and have put in years of practice.
ahh but that is all part of the product.....I take it you never owned a business.

The nachos are part of the product, the beer is part of the product, the person handing it to you is part of the product.it does not mean it is not part of the product.
You donīt get to decide what part is the product....From buying your tickets, to parking to TV time outs, they are all part of THE product. NOT YOUR product.

They are all expenses, becuase you donīt care about

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