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Monday Night Raw Discussion Thread #37

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:07 PM
  #351
txomisc
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Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
And that's why pipebomb face Punk was so much more refreshing. If Punk wins at Rumble via The Shield interfering, it'd be extremely lame.
even some of that wasnt exactly amazing work. Saying Stephanie McMahon wears the pants in the family and calling that a pipebomb isn't top notch for me.

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:09 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Punk's "pipe-bomb" wasn't great because it was more of a staged promo. You can never recreate that moment in Las Vegas because it was so real. This was obviously not real and just was a very good heel promo. I wish they'd stay away from pipe-bomb comments because it will always compare to the greatness of that one single promo.

They sold eachother well. They sold the PPV well. The Rock Bottom was easy to write-in as Punk got the upper hand last time. When the belt was laid down and they got in each other's face... that's when it heated up.
This! Great ending segment. The Rock is who he is and that's why he sells. Punk is Punk and that's why he's great. Some people are overanalyzing it. It was, like you said, a great sale for the PPV.

As for the rest of the show, I enjoyed it. Sure, Cena is a parody of himself and him coming out on top after three finishers is a joke, but it was a great match. I enjoyed everything Team Hell No did and we had a few good matches. Not much build outside of Rock/Punk, but there are hinting at Sheamus vs Orton and Cena/Ziggler continues.

Overall, I had a good night watching wrestling, you guys complain about silly stuff sometimes. It isn't a Shakespeare play, it is pro-wrestling...

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:10 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
And the problem with that is that the standards for judging the two are different. People know and love or hate what The Rock is. But that is simply what he is as a performer. Punk's standard is different and him being redundant is an issue for him whereas it isn't for The Rock.
Problem for me is, I loved The Rock back then.

Then I grew up. Sorry, scrotum/testicles/penis jokes are for kids. Tattoos of candy bars on *****. Wonderful and brilliant, you made an observation that candy bars on an ass is like your popular slogan, candy ass. Oh and Punk has tattoos. Very clever.

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:10 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
I think the problem I am having, as a Punk fan, is seeing the word "redundant" thrown around, yet praise The Rock's promo.

... Really?
Well... I think the two did follow their typical promos. Couple really sweet lines by Punk. Rock did his thing. I think redundant is just the wrong word for both guys. They both did their usual thing. Nothing ground-breaking. But who are we to expect ground breaking promos every week? That's a bit much.

I think some people just have way too high expectations. Tonight was done well. It wasn't making me jump out of my seat, but I was well entertained.

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:11 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
His one line of an imaginary child getting more TV time than Tyson Kidd was absolutely brilliance. The line he told the Rock about his arms being too short to box with God won the whole damn thing.
You did see that he was playing the crowd with that one? "You see, you fell for that one as well!"

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:12 PM
  #356
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I'm looking forward to their promo on January 21st to do the final sell for the pay-per-view. THAT is going to be something.

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:13 PM
  #357
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JordanStaal#1Fan View Post
This! Great ending segment. The Rock is who he is and that's why he sells. Punk is Punk and that's why he's great. Some people are overanalyzing it. It was, like you said, a great sale for the PPV.

As for the rest of the show, I enjoyed it. Sure, Cena is a parody of himself and him coming out on top after three finishers is a joke, but it was a great match. I enjoyed everything Team Hell No did and we had a few good matches. Not much build outside of Rock/Punk, but there are hinting at Sheamus vs Orton and Cena/Ziggler continues.

Overall, I had a good night watching wrestling, you guys complain about silly stuff sometimes. It isn't a Shakespeare play, it is pro-wrestling...
Yeah.. I agree with you here. The thing people probably want to see more is pure hatred between the two. Punk could play his dedication to wrestling compared to Rock's movies. That would make it more real. BUT - if this has to go to Wrestlemania, then we can't put all the eggs in one single basket.

I mean seriously - good promos sell the PPV and put each other over. They did that very well. I feel I'm getting a special treat w/ Rock/Punk at the Rumble as well as the RR match itself.

Oh.. and side note: PLEASE dear lord do not put ADR vs. Show at the Rumble. That is a ****ing joke.

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:14 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
Well... I think the two did follow their typical promos. Couple really sweet lines by Punk. Rock did his thing. I think redundant is just the wrong word for both guys. They both did their usual thing. Nothing ground-breaking. But who are we to expect ground breaking promos every week? That's a bit much.

I think some people just have way too high expectations. Tonight was done well. It wasn't making me jump out of my seat, but I was well entertained.
Oh I was entertained too. More so by Punk, but that's because I enjoy when Tyson Kidd is - once again - name dropped for being underutilized by management, and Brodus Clay's character is a complete farce. But like it's been said, it's over-analyzing in a sense. I will admit, it was a great sell and built towards the PPV. However I am just so bored with these 10 year old jokes that even I, at 10 years old, thought those kinds of jokes were childish.

I didn't expect much ground-breaking stuff from Rock or Punk. I think a whole promo can be delivered by one or two solid lines, which is why I think Punk won that battle. He got me interested in the interaction and really made me believe he thinks he stands above and beyond The Rock.

What did The Rock make me believe? He can make the fans cheer and chant stupid crap.

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:15 PM
  #359
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Show/ADR will be lucky to get more than 10 minutes. The Rumble is a two match card that's going to pull in more than 500K buys, the Rumble match and the WWE Championship.

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01-07-2013, 11:15 PM
  #360
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Originally Posted by CrimsonSkorpion View Post
Problem for me is, I loved The Rock back then.

Then I grew up. Sorry, scrotum/testicles/penis jokes are for kids. Tattoos of candy bars on *****. Wonderful and brilliant, you made an observation that candy bars on an ass is like your popular slogan, candy ass. Oh and Punk has tattoos. Very clever.
To each their own but you don't have to be a kid to enjoy juvenile humor and it doesn't make you any less mature or grown-up.

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:15 PM
  #361
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I think we can all agree that this feud is already miles better then Rock/Cena, lol.

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:17 PM
  #362
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People that are saying that Punk's promo tonight was the same ol' thing as usual with the disrespect thing are on crack. Sure the promo he cut after the commercial break was about that but it was to build up The Rock coming in for the fans. His promo before the break was just BRILLIANT. It obviously wasn't a legitimate shoot but everything behind what he was saying was true and what's wrong with how the WWE works. From the Daniel Bryan thing, to the Brodus Clay gimmick to the air time that Tyson Kidd gets, everything was true.

The Rock without a doubt imo was inferior to Punk tonight when it came to cutting a promo. I laughed at the nuts joke but I don't give a crap about his whole shtick with the ''Oh The Rock woke up at 4 am, did his workout...''. I thought last year John Cena was better in almost every time they went toe to toe with the mic and I don't think it will change between him and Punk.

Anyway as for the show, the 1st hour was solid. The matches were long and great. Cena winning was BS but I didn't expect Ziggler to beat him twice in a row. The 2nd hour was a waste of time tho, I guess they're heading with the Sheamus/Orton thing by having them take on the 3MB individually but I thought they could have had Orton vs them on Raw and then have Sheamus face them on Smackdown. I don't get the point of having Kofi job to Big Show in like 10 seconds, what's the point? It's not Big Show did a beat down on him afterwards and Del Rio came to Kofi's defense. Barrett vs Marella was another pointless match, geez I wonder who's going to win. Why not have Barrett face Tyson Kidd or Justin Gabriel. Plus we already saw Cesaro vs The Great Khali, I understand that they wanted to showcase Cesaro doing the Neutralizer on Khali again since not everybody watches Main Event but the less we see of Khali the better it is.

The TLC match was good but nothing great with a predictable ending. Good show that would've been great if it was only 2 hours long.

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:17 PM
  #363
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I lol'd when Rock said Punk looks like a crackhead.

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:17 PM
  #364
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jussi View Post
You did see that he was playing the crowd with that one? "You see, you fell for that one as well!"
Absolutely. Then again, that line was sort of playing into his "I'm a heel, not a tweener," character. You know as well as I do, a LOT of guys think Kidd - among others - are underutilized.

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:19 PM
  #365
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To each their own but you don't have to be a kid to enjoy juvenile humor and it doesn't make you any less mature or grown-up.
You're right, and if I came off as accusing anybody of that, it's not what I meant. Sure, when my kid is in the bathroom taking a poop and a loud fart is heard from the other side - I'll laugh. Bet your bottom dollar I would crack up and have tears in my eyes.

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:20 PM
  #366
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The TLC match was good but nothing great with a predictable ending. Good show that would've been great if it was only 2 hours long.
This goes for EVERY Raw since the full time switch to three hours with the exception of Raw 1000. The flow of three hour Raw is ruined when talent that aren't over and are rarely used are suddenly put on the show. It just ruins the flow. The crowd also gets tired. The crowd was pretty tame between Cena/Ziggler - Punk/Ryback with a few exceptions in between, such as Orton and Cesaro's Neutralizer.

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:20 PM
  #367
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Absolutely. Then again, that line was sort of playing into his "I'm a heel, not a tweener," character. You know as well as I do, a LOT of guys think Kidd - among others - are underutilized.
But heel Punk doesn't care about Kidd or any of the others. And we are supposed to evaluate them based on their tv personas...

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:22 PM
  #368
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I think people are picking the promo apart because nothing tonight was groundbreaking. It was all status quo. The TLC match was a great match to get for free, but it didn't deliver for what the PPV match would have been. It was what we already saw 10 times. We also got a GREAT Cena/Ziggler free match, but the ending once again kills Ziggler. Then the last promo was very solid, but no water-cooler talk tomorrow.

If they had one ground-breaking thing happen tonight, buzz would have been ridiculous. Instead we get a DAMN good show to start the road to Wrestlemania.... oh which is 4 months away. So not bad, eh?

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01-07-2013, 11:25 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by ColePens View Post
I think people are picking the promo apart because nothing tonight was groundbreaking. It was all status quo. The TLC match was a great match to get for free, but it didn't deliver for what the PPV match would have been. It was what we already saw 10 times. We also got a GREAT Cena/Ziggler free match, but the ending once again kills Ziggler. Then the last promo was very solid, but no water-cooler talk tomorrow.

If they had one ground-breaking thing happen tonight, buzz would have been ridiculous. Instead we get a DAMN good show to start the road to Wrestlemania.... oh which is 4 months away. So not bad, eh?
Perfect point. Go back to the start of the night, people were claiming this was going to be a HUGE Raw. Expectations were through the roof. Like you said though, nothing really shook the ground. That's what expectations do to you, eh?

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01-07-2013, 11:26 PM
  #370
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John Cena eats a Zig Zag, Superkick and Big Finish and doesn't get pinned. Ziggler eats one AA and it's done.

Next week will be big. 20th Anniversary. I'd mark for a Rock/Punk/Austin promo to close the show.

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:28 PM
  #371
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LOL @ WWE completely ignoring Ryder.

Zack Ryder @ZackRyder
The world follows me on twitter too. @WWE just doesn’t want you to know. I have 100k followers more than @mikethemiz.

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:29 PM
  #372
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One general comment I want to make before going to bed. My friend and I were discussing the show while watching it and we came to the conclusion that the reason why we are less involved in it than we were as teens is because feuds aren't built enough. Back in the days, characters weren't that much better than they are today, but every title and every feud was built. Today, so many things are thrown together randomly and only main-event feuds are really built.

That's why I loved Rock/Punk tonight, they told us a good story. Sure,Rocky is Rocky and he says the same thing over and over again... but he is a good story teller. Same thing for Punk. They made us believe they don't like eachother and the promo worked. The ending was also perfect. The Rock gets the upper hand after what happened this summer. I want to tune in next week in order to see what's next. That's what a good RAW is: Some good matches and build ups that make you want to watch next week. If only they could build the midcard more, we wouldn't feel like 3-hour shows are too long. 3 hours would be great if they were taking their time and building up more stories. We have some good "midcard" stuff right now, like Team Hell No and the Rhodes Scholars for example, but we need more of that. They are building the US Title nicely with Cesaro, but they don't give him real feuds. Less titles, more build up around each title, that would be great.

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:31 PM
  #373
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Originally Posted by JordanStaal#1Fan View Post
One general comment I want to make before going to bed. My friend and I were discussing the show while watching it and we came to the conclusion that the reason why we are less involved in it than we were as teens is because feuds aren't built enough. Back in the days, characters weren't that much better than they are today, but every title and every feud was built. Today, so many things are thrown together randomly and only main-event feuds are really built.
That's something Vince Russo was ****ing great at. A Vince Russo/Vince McMahon tandem was the best back in the day. Vince McMahon filtered all the crazy Russo-ness, and Russo's booking gave EVERYONE a storyline, from the top guys to referees and everything in between.

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Old
01-07-2013, 11:38 PM
  #374
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Sure The Rock wasn't the best but Punk repeats the same crap too.

A CM Punk promo is basically:

-The fans are fat

-The fans are losers

-Best in the world

-Show me respect

-Champion for ___ days

Rise and repeat times thirty for how long now.
That's. Not. What. Punk. Did. Tonight.

Did any of you even watch the promo?

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01-07-2013, 11:45 PM
  #375
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They each sprinkled in their normal stuff and also had some unique things for this feud. Rock wasn't just all catch-phrases. He touched on Punk's ice cream bar bit. It wasn't all catchphrase pot shots. They set each other up well. The Rock is firmly in his role as the people's champion and Punk is the villain that is showing that the people are puppets like a lot of good heels have done throughout wrestling history. People need to watch the segment again and put the initial reactions and criticisms aside and see what each of them did.

The Rock is the face and Punk is the heel and they played their roles perfectly for the opening salvo for this angle.

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