HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > National Hockey League Talk > Polls - (hockey-related only)
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2

Better captain: Sundin or Alfredsson?

View Poll Results: Who was/is the best captain?
Mats Sundin 89 43.20%
Daniel Alfredsson 117 56.80%
Voters: 206. You may not vote on this poll

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-04-2013, 12:56 PM
  #26
SenateReform
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,250
vCash: 500
Who has accomplished more with their team? Alfredsson

Who captained their team longer? Alfredsson

Who sacrificed more for their team? Alfredsson

Who cares more about the city they played in? Alfredsson

Who rejected being traded for reasons that they would go back on entirely less than a year later? Sundin

SenateReform is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 12:57 PM
  #27
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,748
vCash: 500
Whoa, Alfredsson is winning this one...

Even with valid points about which "flavour" of captain each poster prefers, I would have thought this poll would be "easier" than most given that they played together internationally for over a decade, and Sundin was Sweden's captain the whole time.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:01 PM
  #28
SenateReform
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 1,250
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Whoa, Alfredsson is winning this one...

Even with valid points about which "flavour" of captain each poster prefers, I would have thought this poll would be "easier" than most given that they played together internationally for over a decade, and Sundin was Sweden's captain the whole time.
Sundin is older and was captain before Alfredsson was established. Sundin was a good captain so there was no reason for team Sweden to consider stripping him of his captaincy.

SenateReform is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:01 PM
  #29
Melnyks Mirage
We are what we are.
 
Melnyks Mirage's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Cumberland
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,957
vCash: 50
This poll is probably never going to be answered fairly here and should probably head to the History of Hockey board where there are likely to be more distant and less emotional views on the topic.

I'll try to divorce myself from fandom which is really necessary in this case.

If you look at the entirety of Alfredsson's captaincy, there are really two stages.
The early Alfredsson captaincy had him questioned by fans and media at every turn, especially in those losses to Toronto (and oddly enough his compatriot Sundin) and his leadership was questioned. He was still a very capable two-way player that played with an edge at times, the edge was what seems to raise that "compete level" upwards for Alfredsson. After the lockout and the opening up of the game, Alfredsson got Heatley and a basically "rebuilt" Senators team with Heatley, Preissing, Corvo, Comrie, Saprykin basically a great mix of support players and puck-moving D that made the NHL changes work out really well for the Senators, who under Bryan Murray went "All taps open" on offense. You also have to remember there were rumours of Alfredsson being traded for Craig Conroy when the early 2007 team had its struggles, and that might have been a gut-punch for Alfie that helped push him to playoff warrior status. Now we don't question Alfie and he's really beloved but it wasn't always the case. Alfredsson is also really loved for his off-ice stuff, helping around hospitals and charities and so on so he's gained an almost god-like status here in the nation's capital.

Now, if you look at Mats Sundin, he came in to replace another beloved Leafs (they traded Clark for him) and really had to find his way in the hockey-crazed Toronto. If you go back and read some columns there were seemingly always questions about his ability to lead in the playoffs (like there were for Alfie) and Sundin never really got his due until he left for Vancouver, when fans realized he was an incredibly steady centre that brought a consistent contribution to his team. Toronto was very hard on him...they may have wanted that emotional leader/captain like the beloved Wendel Clark or Doug Gilmour and just never got that from the big Swede, who was a very respectable producer for them. Sundin also toiled with a revolving door of wingers, some skilled and others gritty run-around guys, so who knows how an elite winger might have swung things in his favour. Sundin never really had that "playoff breakout" like Alfredsson did, and the post-lockout era wasn't kind to the Leafs in general. So here we have a really consistent guy that was never the "heart and soul, gritty guy" that is so loved in TO.

So yeah, it's easy for me as a Sens fan to say Alfredsson as he's legend here now.
Sundin probably gets appreciated more now over there now that he's reached HHOF status and whatnot, but I have a feeling if he were were drafted by the Leafs and only played for them there may have been less questions overall.

TLDR: Sens fan voting Alfie.


Last edited by Melnyks Mirage: 01-04-2013 at 01:05 PM. Reason: Poor wording.
Melnyks Mirage is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:07 PM
  #30
Benny FTW
Head Light Fluid
 
Benny FTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,123
vCash: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Yeah that's probably what they did that and all the other times Sundin captained the national team. Boy isn't he lucky, I'm sure Alfredsson wished he was that lucky.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nathan311 View Post
He must have gotten lucky getting the right straw for an entire decade...
Nice dodge.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MastuhNinks View Post
That's a pretty poor argument, by that logic we can say that only players on the Leafs or Senators can know why Sundin or Alfie are captains
Im not the only person who has said this.

Benny FTW is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:07 PM
  #31
Romang67
BitterSwede
 
Romang67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Maryland
Country: Sweden
Posts: 10,087
vCash: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by SenateReform View Post
Who has accomplished more with their team? Alfredsson

Who captained their team longer? Alfredsson

Who sacrificed more for their team? Alfredsson

Who cares more about the city they played in? Alfredsson

Who rejected being traded for reasons that they would go back on entirely less than a year later? Sundin


You were saying?

IMO, Sundin captaining the Swedish national team ahead of better players, and faces of Swedish hockey, and being so successful doing it, tips the scale in his favor.

Romang67 is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:09 PM
  #32
Jonimaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lund
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,425
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Nice dodge.


Im not the only person who has said this.
Nice save.

Jonimaus is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:19 PM
  #33
Benny FTW
Head Light Fluid
 
Benny FTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,123
vCash: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romang67 View Post


You were saying?

IMO, Sundin captaining the Swedish national team ahead of better players, and faces of Swedish hockey, and being so successful doing it, tips the scale in his favor.
He was talking about The Sens and Leafs. Not Sweden; which they were both part of anyways...

Benny FTW is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:21 PM
  #34
Jonimaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lund
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,425
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
He was talking about The Sens and Leafs. Not Sweden; which they were both part of anyways...
In which one fantastic captain was taken over 2 (3 with forsberg) other fantastic captains. For what you (and according to you others) have said was probably through choosing straws, and not at all that he was deemed better for the job.

Jonimaus is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:24 PM
  #35
Romang67
BitterSwede
 
Romang67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Maryland
Country: Sweden
Posts: 10,087
vCash: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
He was talking about The Sens and Leafs. Not Sweden; which they were both part of anyways...
Oh, I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood the topic as to ask who was the better Captain, not who was the better Captain for their respective team in Ontario. Silly me.

Romang67 is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:26 PM
  #36
Benny FTW
Head Light Fluid
 
Benny FTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,123
vCash: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romang67 View Post
Oh, I'm sorry, I must have misunderstood the topic as to ask who was the better Captain, not who was the better Captain for their respective team in Ontario. Silly me.
I was talking about the post you quoted, not the poll.

Benny FTW is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:27 PM
  #37
Benny FTW
Head Light Fluid
 
Benny FTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,123
vCash: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
In which one fantastic captain was taken over 2 (3 with forsberg) other fantastic captains. For what you (and according to you others) have said was probably through choosing straws, and not at all that he was deemed better for the job.
They still would have won if any 4 of them were captain. Alfie was Sweden's leading scorer.

Benny FTW is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:30 PM
  #38
Qward
Moderator
Because! That's why!
 
Qward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Behind you, look out
Posts: 13,421
vCash: 265
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romang67 View Post


You were saying?

IMO, Sundin captaining the Swedish national team ahead of better players, and faces of Swedish hockey, and being so successful doing it, tips the scale in his favor.





Qward is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:30 PM
  #39
Romang67
BitterSwede
 
Romang67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Maryland
Country: Sweden
Posts: 10,087
vCash: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
I was talking about the post you quoted, not the poll.
So the post I quoted was completely pointless, didn't prove anything, didn't add anything to the discussion, and was just a waste of space?

Sorry, should probably have assumed so instead of replying.

Romang67 is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:33 PM
  #40
Jonimaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lund
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,425
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
They still would have won if any 4 of them were captain. Alfie was Sweden's leading scorer.
What kind of argument is that? Would the pens not have won the cup of Malkin was Captain instead of Crosby? Would the Senators not have made it to the finals if someone else instead of Alfredsson was captain and he was still on the team?

The point is all 4 played, and Sundin became the captain. Give me an argument why they could possibly choose Sundin over Alfredsson without it being a pre-school "it was luck" type.

Jonimaus is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:34 PM
  #41
Romang67
BitterSwede
 
Romang67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Maryland
Country: Sweden
Posts: 10,087
vCash: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qward View Post
Pictures of Alfie having fun
Gonna go ahead and claim that leading his team to an Olympic goal medal is a bit bigger than what you posted there.

Romang67 is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:37 PM
  #42
Qward
Moderator
Because! That's why!
 
Qward's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Behind you, look out
Posts: 13,421
vCash: 265
Sundin is older? A matter of respect?

People here are acting like they hate each other. They are best friends. That is why Alfie teased Mats by pretending to throw his stick.

Qward is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:45 PM
  #43
Benny FTW
Head Light Fluid
 
Benny FTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,123
vCash: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romang67 View Post
So the post I quoted was completely pointless, didn't prove anything, didn't add anything to the discussion, and was just a waste of space?

Sorry, should probably have assumed so instead of replying.
Well you took the time to bold and reply to a specific part of that post. Completely failed at it too.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
What kind of argument is that? Would the pens not have won the cup of Malkin was Captain instead of Crosby? Would the Senators not have made it to the finals if someone else instead of Alfredsson was captain and he was still on the team?

The point is all 4 played, and Sundin became the captain. Give me an argument why they could possibly choose Sundin over Alfredsson without it being a pre-school "it was luck" type.
Sundin is a great captain and they wanted to most experienced at the time. You guys really put to much into the "draw for straws" example.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Romang67 View Post
Gonna go ahead and claim that leading his team to an Olympic goal medal is a bit bigger than what you posted there.
Alfie did more for Sweden in that tournament than Sundin.

Benny FTW is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:48 PM
  #44
Benny FTW
Head Light Fluid
 
Benny FTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,123
vCash: 137
If Sundin is such a great captain, then why did he allow Sweden to throw the game against Slovakia?

Benny FTW is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:52 PM
  #45
Jonimaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lund
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,425
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
If Sundin is such a great captain, then why did he allow Sweden to throw the game against Slovakia?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
They still would have won if any 4 of them were captain.
Sweden would have won if Alfie was captain? The entire team had a crap game.

I don't even recall who was our captain in 2010 when we lost to Slovakia again, but if I recall correctly it was Lidström, was it because he was the captain we lost to them 2010?

Jonimaus is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:54 PM
  #46
Romang67
BitterSwede
 
Romang67's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Maryland
Country: Sweden
Posts: 10,087
vCash: 545
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
1. Well you took the time to bold and reply to a specific part of that post. Completely failed at it too.
Sundin is a great captain and they wanted to most experienced at the time. You guys really put to much into the "draw for straws" example.



2. Alfie did more for Sweden in that tournament than Sundin.
1.Of course I did. He said that Alfredsson had accomplished more with his team in a discussion about teams which they had captained. I replied with a picture of Sundin with an olympic gold medal, and a C on his jersey. He didn't say anything about Toronto in the post. Care to explain how I failed?

2. I like how you imply that my reading comprehension is lacking, then you say something like this. Want to read my bolded part again? About who accomplished more with their team? The team that they captained? You know, the thing the discussion was about? Did Alfredsson ever lead Tre Kronor to anything while captaining them? If not, it's irrelevant to the discussion, and I would urge you to stay on topic.

The topic is about who's the better captain. A discussion about who's the better point producer on a team that he did not captain is about as relevant as who can eat the bigger burrito. Interesting, maybe, but not relevant.

When I reply to a post, I often assume it to be on topic.

Romang67 is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:57 PM
  #47
Benny FTW
Head Light Fluid
 
Benny FTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,123
vCash: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
Sweden would have won if Alfie was captain? The entire team had a crap game.

I don't even recall who was our captain in 2010 when we lost to Slovakia again, but if I recall correctly it was Lidström, was it because he was the captain we lost to them 2010?
Im talking about in 2006.

Benny FTW is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 01:59 PM
  #48
Jonimaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Lund
Country: Sweden
Posts: 2,425
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Im talking about in 2006.
It's funny you imply others for lacking reading comprehension when my post was obviously about 2006 too. That's why I wrote "The other time when we lost to Slovakia in 2010".

Jonimaus is offline  
Old
01-04-2013, 02:04 PM
  #49
Benny FTW
Head Light Fluid
 
Benny FTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,123
vCash: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Romang67 View Post
1.Of course I did. He said that Alfredsson had accomplished more with his team in a discussion about teams which they had captained. I replied with a picture of Sundin with an olympic gold medal, and a C on his jersey. He didn't say anything about Toronto in the post. Care to explain how I failed?

2. I like how you imply that my reading comprehension is lacking, then you say something like this. Want to read my bolded part again? About who accomplished more with their team? The team that they captained? You know, the thing the discussion was about? Did Alfredsson ever lead Tre Kronor to anything while captaining them? If not, it's irrelevant to the discussion, and I would urge you to stay on topic.

The topic is about who's the better captain. A discussion about who's the better point producer on a team that he did not captain is about as relevant as who can eat the bigger burrito. Interesting, maybe, but not relevant.

When I reply to a post, I often assume it to be on topic.
"Who has accomplished more with their team?" clearly implies Ottawa and Toronto. You replied with a picture of Sundin in a swedish jersey.

I never implied you lacked reading comprehension. Please stay on topic.

My point about Alfie scoring more points was to show Sundin didn't single handily captain a team to a championship. He had a ton of help.

Benny FTW is online now  
Old
01-04-2013, 02:08 PM
  #50
Benny FTW
Head Light Fluid
 
Benny FTW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Country: Canada
Posts: 21,123
vCash: 137
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
It's funny you imply others for lacking reading comprehension when my post was obviously about 2006 too. That's why I wrote "The other time when we lost to Slovakia in 2010".
I never implied anyone for lacking reading comprehension. Please stay on topic.

You never said "The other time when we lost to Slovakia in 2010".

Sweden still would have won if Alfie was captain.

Benny FTW is online now  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:07 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.