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Better captain: Sundin or Alfredsson?

View Poll Results: Who was/is the best captain?
Mats Sundin 89 43.20%
Daniel Alfredsson 117 56.80%
Voters: 206. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-04-2013, 02:08 PM
  #51
Pyrophorus
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I'll say the Leafs were the most successful playoff team of all
Canadian teams, between the Habs win and the Lockout. I could say
that this could still be the case:

All the other 5 teams made the SCF. Then never returned to that
level (nor win it). The Leafs twice, in subsequent years, made it back to the 3rd round.

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Old
01-04-2013, 02:09 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
I never implied anyone for lacking reading comprehension. Please stay on topic.

You never said "The other time when we lost to Slovakia in 2010".

Sweden still would have won if Alfie was captain.
No you're right, I wrote "I don't even recall who was our captain in 2010 when we lost to Slovakia again," with again being the key-word here.

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01-04-2013, 02:12 PM
  #53
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Saying that Alfredsson accomplished more with Ottawa than Sundin did in Toronto is a little misleading. Neither won a championship, I'm sure every captain in the league would agree that Presidents Trophies and Conference Titles aren't what they play for. So yes, Alfredsson won a few meaningless trophies but ultimately his teams have had the same (lack of) success that Sundin's teams did.

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Old
01-04-2013, 02:12 PM
  #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
I never implied anyone for lacking reading comprehension. Please stay on topic.

You never said "The other time when we lost to Slovakia in 2010".

Sweden still would have won if Alfie was captain
.
How do you know that? Did you travel to an alternate universe where Alfredsson was captain or something?

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01-04-2013, 02:14 PM
  #55
Benny FTW
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Originally Posted by tp71 View Post
How do you know that? Did you travel to an alternate universe where Alfredsson was captain or something?
Replacing a great captain with another great captain doesn't change much.

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01-04-2013, 02:16 PM
  #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Replacing a great captain with another great captain doesn't change much.
Yet you wrote that "How could Sundin allow his team to lose to Slovakia"?

You are digging a hole here..

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01-04-2013, 02:18 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
Replacing a great captain with another great captain doesn't change much.

It's still a change that could affect the outcome of the tournament. You cannot know for certain what would and would not change if Sundin were not captain.

All we can know is what actually took place.

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01-04-2013, 02:20 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
"Who has accomplished more with their team?" clearly implies Ottawa and Toronto. You replied with a picture of Sundin in a swedish jersey.

I never implied you lacked reading comprehension. Please stay on topic.

My point about Alfie scoring more points was to show Sundin didn't single handily captain a team to a championship. He had a ton of help.
It's a discussion about them as captains. I replied with a picture showing him having won a gold with a team he captained. How are you not getting this?

- Who is the better captain?

- Alfredsson, because he accomplished more as a captain for his team!

- Ah, but Sundin won an olympic gold medal as a captain for the Swedish national team, is that not far more than Alfredsson can claim to have accomplished as a captain for his team?

Also, what does your last paragraph have to do with anything? Obviously Sundin had help to win that gold? Does that take away from the fact that he accomplished more with the team he captained than Alfredsson did?

Once again, I don't care if Alfredsson scored more than Sundin did. I don't care if he shoots harder, skates faster, or is able to eat a much, MUCH bigger burrito than Sundin can. What is important to the discussion is who the better captain is. The picture of Sundin winning a gold medal is important to the question about who accomplished more as a captain. Him having that C on his jersey is important to the question about who the better captain was.

And, again, when I reply to posts, sometimes I like to think that they are on topic. The question isn't who was the better captain for their team in Ontario. The question is who, of the two Swedish players who have been captains for teams in Ontario, is/was the better captain.

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Old
01-04-2013, 02:22 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
I'll say the Leafs were the most successful playoff team of all
Canadian teams, between the Habs win and the Lockout. I could say
that this could still be the case:

All the other 5 teams made the SCF. Then never returned to that
level (nor win it). The Leafs twice, in subsequent years, made it back to the 3rd round.
Congrats on making it to the 3rd round and getting decimated twice. At least the Sens made the Finals before getting whipped. Ok, maybe the 01-02 Leafs didn't get decimated. That team was all heart and deserved to have the honour of losing to the Wings.

2005–063 82 41 33 -- 8 90 257 270 1291 4th in Northeast Did not qualify
2006–07 82 40 31 -- 11 91 258 269 1065 3rd in Northeast Did not qualify
2007–08 82 36 35 -- 11 83 231 260 1087 5th in Northeast Did not qualify
2008–09 82 34 35 -- 13 81 250 293 1113 5th in Northeast Did not qualify
2009–10 82 30 38 -- 14 74 214 267 1071 5th in Northeast Did not qualify
2010–11 82 37 34 -- 11 85 218 251 985 4th in Northeast Did not qualify
2011–12 82 35 37 -- 10 80 231 264 824 4th in Northeast Did not qualify

LOOOOOOOL

I voted Sundin.

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01-04-2013, 02:25 PM
  #60
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Olympics are too small a sample size to compare

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Old
01-04-2013, 02:27 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saskriders View Post
Olympics are too small a sample size to compare
No, the point is that being on the same team, Sundin was named captain, and Alfredsson was not. I don't see what is difficult to understand.

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01-04-2013, 02:27 PM
  #62
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Anyone who believes Sundin should win the poll because he captained Sweden is kidding themselves. He was older than Alfie, Lidstrom and Forsberg giving him the opportunity to become captain before those guys were established.
It would be like saying Yashin is clearly the better captain since he captained a team Daniel Alfredsson was on.

The simple truth is Sundin was doing a good enough job that it made no sense to consider other options. That doesn't mean he was definitely the best captain when we're comparing their entire careers.

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01-04-2013, 02:27 PM
  #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ottawa Senators Fan View Post
Congrats on making it to the 3rd round and getting decimated twice. At least the Sens made the Finals before getting whipped. Ok, maybe the 01-02 Leafs didn't get decimated. That team was all heart and deserved to have the honour of losing to the Wings.

2005063 82 41 33 -- 8 90 257 270 1291 4th in Northeast Did not qualify
200607 82 40 31 -- 11 91 258 269 1065 3rd in Northeast Did not qualify
200708 82 36 35 -- 11 83 231 260 1087 5th in Northeast Did not qualify
200809 82 34 35 -- 13 81 250 293 1113 5th in Northeast Did not qualify
200910 82 30 38 -- 14 74 214 267 1071 5th in Northeast Did not qualify
201011 82 37 34 -- 11 85 218 251 985 4th in Northeast Did not qualify
201112 82 35 37 -- 10 80 231 264 824 4th in Northeast Did not qualify

LOOOOOOOL

I voted Sundin.
Still think 4 3rd rounds is better than 1 SCF.
Others may differ.

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01-04-2013, 02:31 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SenateReform View Post
Anyone who believes Sundin should win the poll because he captained Sweden is kidding themselves. He was older than Alfie, Lidstrom and Forsberg giving him the opportunity to become captain before those guys were established.
It would be like saying Yashin is clearly the better captain since he captained a team Daniel Alfredsson was on.

The simple truth is Sundin was doing a good enough job that it made no sense to consider other options. That doesn't mean he was definitely the best captain when we're comparing their entire careers.
Lol isn't Lidstrom older than Sundin? You have no clue wtf you're talking about.

EDIT: He's also 1 year older than Alfredsson...

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01-04-2013, 02:31 PM
  #65
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Originally Posted by Falcons93 View Post
Lol isn't Lidstrom older than Sundin? You have no clue wtf you're talking about.
He is.

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01-04-2013, 02:33 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Falcons93 View Post
Lol isn't Lidstrom older than Sundin? You have no clue wtf you're talking about.

EDIT: He's also 1 year older than Alfredsson...
You're right. Congrats. But you're also missing the point. Sundin established himself as a great much earlier than the other guys.

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01-04-2013, 02:34 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
Still think 4 3rd rounds is better than 1 SCF.
Others may differ.
1 SCF
and 1 3rd round

At the very least that is equal. 1 less trip to the 3rd round, but 1 more win in the 3rd

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Old
01-04-2013, 02:35 PM
  #68
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyrophorus View Post
Still think 4 3rd rounds is better than 1 SCF.
Others may differ.
Everyone will differ.

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01-04-2013, 02:38 PM
  #69
Benny FTW
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Originally Posted by Jonimaus View Post
No, the point is that being on the same team, Sundin was named captain, and Alfredsson was not. I don't see what is difficult to understand.
You cannot know why Sundin was the captain. Which makes it meaningless.

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01-04-2013, 02:39 PM
  #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Benny FTW View Post
You cannot know why Sundin was the captain. Which makes it meaningless.
I hope you didn't vote in this poll. Cause with thinking like that, that would make you a huge hypocrite.

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Old
01-04-2013, 02:41 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by saskriders View Post
1 SCF
and 1 3rd round

At the very least that is equal. 1 less trip to the 3rd round, but 1 more win in the 3rd
I still don't understand his point.

Why are we even including playoffs when Sundin was not on the Leafs and Alfie wasn't in the NHL.

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01-04-2013, 02:41 PM
  #72
Benny FTW
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I hope you didn't vote in this poll. Cause with thinking like that, that would make you a huge hypocrite.
False.

I voted based on what they have done in the NHL.

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01-04-2013, 02:41 PM
  #73
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Alfie would never ditch his team for another.

Alfredsson wins.

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01-04-2013, 02:43 PM
  #74
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Originally Posted by SenateReform View Post
You're right. Congrats. But you're also missing the point. Sundin established himself as a great much earlier than the other guys.
How much earlier was he established as a great for Tre Kronor than this guy?


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Old
01-04-2013, 02:47 PM
  #75
tp71
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Originally Posted by OmniSens View Post
Alfie would never ditch his team for another.

Alfredsson wins.
Sundin didn't. He was asked to waive his NTC to be traded, (the biggest rumour being Montreal). He stayed. He left as a free agent. He can do what he wants at that point. I wouldn't call that "ditching".

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