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Elias Lindholm vs Barkov

View Poll Results: Who would you take between Barkov and Elias Lindholm
Barkov 116 64.44%
Elias Lindholm 64 35.56%
Voters: 180. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
01-05-2013, 11:50 AM
  #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hockey Mind View Post
Is it necessary to comment on every post saying Barkov? Haven't you made your point already?
I'm a big fan of Lindholm but that doesn't mean I don't like Barkov. I think both will be stellar players in the NHL just with very different styles and different roles.

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01-05-2013, 12:16 PM
  #152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ponder View Post
Lindholm is listed at 6', 192 lbs, that's pretty jacked/solid for a kid who just turned 18. Also, he seems to have no problem being physical against men as a 17/18 year old in the SEL. Sure the NHL is more physical, but Lindholm is also going to get bigger/stronger himself.

FWIW, Forsberg was listed at 6', 205 lbs. Lindholm will probably be the same size in his prime, so I don't see where you're going from with the "way too girlish frame to play forsberg like game in small rink" comment.
Yeah, but hockey players often have tree trunk legs that compensate for their lack of upper body. So it doesn't necessarily speak for his frame. I'd believe the report that he has rather narrow shoulders. This might make it hard for him to bulk up his upper body, but then again, I don't think that will limit his effectiveness too much.

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Old
01-05-2013, 12:23 PM
  #153
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Morrison View Post
Elias Lindholm was one of Swedens best players during the entire tournament. Don't just look at points buddy
So was Barkov for Finland. Sadly, the team was coached by yet another ö-level coach (last year it was Helminen)... They suffered a lot because of that.

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01-05-2013, 12:39 PM
  #154
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Originally Posted by IFK View Post
If we look out of color classes, i have to say. This is F.... deep draft! Top 8 feels for me that you can't go wrong, besides if some GM is full idiot. Also after that it's good draft and i think many team will find later picks in 1 round some elite players.

I really don't care if Barkov goes 5th or 55th, but i know, who ever pick him will be more than happy. If everything not goes like movies, he still be Mikko Koivu caliber and if everything goes wrong he will be Rob Niedermayer caliber. Still, his potential is Sundin-Jagr offensive and defensive he has ability be Selke winner in many years.

Drouin - he is so skilled, flashy, i love that kind of skills. He has big potential, but also lot of weakness so medium risk-very high reward.

Lindholm... hmm.. He from Sweden, very skilled also. I just yet don't know who he remind... Maybe Zetterberg? I like him alot, you rarely goes wrong Swedes. Swedes this skill, you can't go wrong, but if you go. His Alexander Steen Vol 2.

Nathan MacKinnon. Are someone else see him lot of Ovechkin? He has Star written in his chest.
You mean the Stars draft him?

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Old
01-05-2013, 01:11 PM
  #155
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Originally Posted by urho View Post
So was Barkov for Finland. Sadly, the team was coached by yet another ö-level coach (last year it was Helminen)... They suffered a lot because of that.
I don't think the issue is that our coaches have been of very low quality (though I don't have much trust in Helminen's coaching skills), but rather that the office of U20 head coach is handed to a new guy every year, resulting in no continuity whatsoever, and with no chance of establishing some kind of coaching system, where everyone knows what to expect and know what is expected of them.

Team Sweden is a very good example of how things should be run:
1. Have a certain vision how the junior team should play
2. Hire a coach who a) is of high quality and b) has a vision of his own on how to execute the plan laid out by the federation, and give him enough freedom to work it out
3. Hire the coach for 3 or more years, with the eventuality that the coach is the to-be head coach of the men's NT.
4. The big picture is that all the junior national teams play roughly according to the same philosophy, and when a player is bumped from U18 to U20, he knows what is expected of him, and he jumps into an already working mold.
5. Junior players have a strong identity when they wear the NT jersey


This is roughly how our federation sees it:
1. Don't give a **** about the WJC because it's just a junior tournament, Kal€ prefers the Karjalalippis games (finnish word for World championships)
2. Hire a coach who happens to be free, for 1 year, and when he'd done, say "next"
3. Expect the players to play "meidän peli" which doesn't work well in junior because there isn't enough time to teach the system to the players in 1 year. The effect is that the playing style changes every year, the coach doesn't have time and resources to teach his vision to everyone, and players are confused. If by chance the players learn the ideas of the coach, it's back to square 1 the next year. Thus there is no continuity
4. Junior players have no identity when they wear the NT jersey

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01-05-2013, 01:33 PM
  #156
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Originally Posted by Jim Morrison View Post
Hahahaha! And too bad Barkov decided not to show up during the entire tournament
Btw i was just commenting on your 'Forsberg 2.0' was not related to barkov any way. Lindholm is more like Forsberg 0.7 He will never be able to cover the puck like forsberg was, their playing style is similar but it's just not going to happen.

Forsberg shoulder width without pads > Elias Lindholm with shoulderpads as a teenagers.

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01-05-2013, 03:02 PM
  #157
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There's still small edge to Barkov. WJC's didn't change anything for me though I was little disappointed in Barkov but there are many reasons for he's less-than-spectacular performance; and none of them is that he wouldn't have talent.

Nothing against Lindholm, would be pretty happy for example if Wings drafted Lindholm, he's Järnkrok's cousin for example. But on the other hand, Barkov would fit Wings puck posession game so well.

Lindholm is definitely more flashier. Barkov has questions about his offensive upside imo. I think he will be 60 point near selke level C anyway, if he doesn't reach his full potential. He plays very defensive style for that age, his point totals could easily be higher if he cherry-picked more. Scouts will see that. He's outplayed many NHLers this year though one could question their compete level in FEL.

Both kids are playing absolutely stellar seasons in their respective leagues, Lindholm is playing at least as well as Bäckström and iirc some scouts/coaches have said that he's better than Bäcks was at the same age. Not that it proves much though.

Barkov is having the best season of Finnish draft eligible players since.. forever basically.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tuomaz View Post
You're putting too much weight on the skating. Tavares is fine example that you can develop skating easily if you work hard. but you can't get more height and hockey IQ. Barkov is also over 10cm bigger than Tavares.
Not everyone can improve their skating like Tavares did, though. Tavares is exceptional player in many ways.. like hopefully Barkov some day.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Dr Quincy View Post
Not that this should influence the poll at all, but just curious, are either committed to stay in Europe (or military duty) next year, or would either be able to play in the NHL if good enough to make it?
He may not have to go because of dual-citizen ship and even if he had to go it would hurt his preparation little to none. Koivu was in the army 2 years ago. Didn't seem to hurt him. Mikael Granlund too, kid was there for 16 days and at least one week of that was for on-ice training iirc.

Athletes have their own 'army' in Finland and hockey players have it the easiest, by far. Making other athletes very happy ofc.


Last edited by InjuredChoker: 01-05-2013 at 04:33 PM.
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01-05-2013, 08:13 PM
  #158
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Lindholm remind anyone of a better skating Cody Hodgson?

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01-05-2013, 10:12 PM
  #159
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Originally Posted by Darcy Regier View Post
Lindholm remind anyone of a better skating Cody Hodgson?
Not sure, haven't seen Cody enough to make that comparison.

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Old
01-06-2013, 04:04 AM
  #160
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leehh View Post
Forsberg shoulder width without pads > Elias Lindholm with shoulderpads as a teenagers.
Lindholm is a lot bigger than you think.

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01-06-2013, 04:09 AM
  #161
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kemisti View Post
Barkov is having the best season of Finnish draft eligible players since.. forever basically.
Does that include Mikael Granlund? I'm purely judging some points so please enlighten me, but Granlund had better point per game. Is Barkov with a less talented supporting cast than Granlund played with?

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01-06-2013, 04:33 AM
  #162
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
Does that include Mikael Granlund? I'm purely judging some points so please enlighten me, but Granlund had better point per game. Is Barkov with a less talented supporting cast than Granlund played with?
Granlund played a sheltered role his draft season in Finland like RNH. Barkov is playing like the Granlund post draft year

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01-06-2013, 04:40 AM
  #163
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Originally Posted by jhjhjhjhjhjh View Post
Don't be a stat hogger please, Lindholm is playing against better competition in the SEL and is putting up stats that are incredible for a guy his age.
SEL and FEL are equal leagues. Actually FEL was maybe a bit better since almost every team had lockout players. FEL is much more physical and faster than SEL and the rinks are smaller.

So Barkov's stats are not incredible for a guy his age?

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01-06-2013, 04:40 AM
  #164
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
Does that include Mikael Granlund? I'm purely judging some points so please enlighten me, but Granlund had better point per game. Is Barkov with a less talented supporting cast than Granlund played with?
Granlund's PPG wasn't that much better (0.93 vs 0.875), but Barkov still has a fair amount of games to play, so a lot could change to one way or another. You could also say that Barkov has been playing with better players in Ville Nieminen and Jannik Hansen, whereas Granlund only got to play with Jerry Ahtola and Teemu Ramstedt (both of whom had their career seasons that year, excluding Ramstedt this year).

Their roles differ more, though, since MG played more sheltered role as third line winger with no PK duties, as opposed to Barkov who's playing first line minutes as center with plenty of PP and PK time.

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01-06-2013, 05:45 AM
  #165
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Originally Posted by Haite View Post
Granlund's PPG wasn't that much better (0.93 vs 0.875), but Barkov still has a fair amount of games to play, so a lot could change to one way or another. You could also say that Barkov has been playing with better players in Ville Nieminen and Jannik Hansen, whereas Granlund only got to play with Jerry Ahtola and Teemu Ramstedt (both of whom had their career seasons that year, excluding Ramstedt this year).

Their roles differ more, though, since MG played more sheltered role as third line winger with no PK duties, as opposed to Barkov who's playing first line minutes as center with plenty of PP and PK time.
Granlund played in the first PP by the end of the season in pure offensive role without defensive duties. After Granlund was moved from wing to C to be #1 C and play two-way game his point production dropped a little. I would say that Barkov at 17 is atleast as good as Granlund in his 18-19 year old season where Granlund had very good linemates. Barkov have big edge in two-way game and Granlund is pretty good two-way player. Barkov is selke calibre of two-way player. Barkov will be a player who shuts down the best lines for opposite teams and produce offensively against them. I've seen Barkov shutting down Mikko Koivu, Jussi Jokinen like they was almost nonfactors. Barkov isn't as good as Mikko Koivu now but able to outplay and shutdown #1 NHL center who competes hard as 17 year old isn't easy task.

This is an huge stretch but it would be nice to see an rookie getting into selke discussion as an 18 year old. It might be almost impossible but Barkov is best under 18 year old two-way player i've ever seen. Barkov has very high offensive potential but imagine that his defensive potential is as high. With right players, perfect enviroment and coaching i could see it happening. Because he has all the talent to do it and most important thing that he is very mature. He plays like he have been playing hockey for ages.

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01-06-2013, 05:54 AM
  #166
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danccchan View Post
Does that include Mikael Granlund? I'm purely judging some points so please enlighten me, but Granlund had better point per game. Is Barkov with a less talented supporting cast than Granlund played with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by toewsintangibles View Post
Granlund played a sheltered role his draft season in Finland like RNH. Barkov is playing like the Granlund post draft year
Quote:
Originally Posted by Haite View Post
Granlund's PPG wasn't that much better (0.93 vs 0.875), but Barkov still has a fair amount of games to play, so a lot could change to one way or another. You could also say that Barkov has been playing with better players in Ville Nieminen and Jannik Hansen, whereas Granlund only got to play with Jerry Ahtola and Teemu Ramstedt (both of whom had their career seasons that year, excluding Ramstedt this year).

Their roles differ more, though, since MG played more sheltered role as third line winger with no PK duties, as opposed to Barkov who's playing first line minutes as center with plenty of PP and PK time.
Yeah, MG may get more points but he was more sheltered, no pk duties and winger with less defensive responsibilities.. he didn't dominate then. I'd agree that MGs last season was the same as Barkov's this year. Barkov has better D, MG was more dymanic offensively the first half of the season. Barkov has had some time Jannick Hansen on his line but is also facing tougher opposition. Little younger than MG though to me that doesn't value much.

Barkov is better and more mature.. far more NHL ready. No question his had better draft year season, even if MG would have more points by the end.

But MG took bis steps after it, worked on his strength and does improved his skating and board work. Got little more creative with and without the puck gained more confidence.. well you Wild fans know the rest. Now it's up to Barkov to take those next steps.

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01-06-2013, 05:55 AM
  #167
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Why call Lindholm flashy? IMO flashy implies something that looks good but doesn't necessarily result in anything positive. I'd say Yakupov is flashy, even when he goes 1 vs 3 with an open teammate and ends up with a turnover light years away from a scoring opportunity he looks "good" doing so. Lindholm's game is all substance not flash.

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01-06-2013, 06:55 AM
  #168
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The only way u can compare SEL teams with finnish teams is to examine where they actually competed, european trophy, where swedish teams did way better. Lindholm is having an amazing season in the better league and were one of the best players on this swedish wjc team that just proved so many doubters wrong. With that said you cant go wrong with any of them but I'd take Lindholm.

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01-06-2013, 07:09 AM
  #169
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Originally Posted by Pellegrino View Post
Lindholm is a lot bigger than you think.
Foppa is naturally BIG. Back in the days he was drafted kids didn't do weight lifting, it was rare when you saw someone fit at the draft, now it's rare when you see someone out of shape. Lindholm just doesn't have those bull like genes. Just look at Foppa as a teenager. He had a huge frame frame for a 6'0 guy, that's why he was able to play the way he played it.


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01-06-2013, 07:39 AM
  #170
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Originally Posted by Leehh View Post
Foppa is naturally BIG. Back in the days he was drafted kids didn't do weight lifting, it was rare when you saw someone fit at the draft, now it's rare when you see someone out of shape. Lindholm just doesn't have those bull like genes. Just look at Foppa as a teenager. He had a huge frame frame for a 6'0 guy, that's why he was able to play the way he played it.

Actually Foppa was pretty small as a kid. He had to learn to be really elusive because he couldn't physically compete, his physical game didn't pick up until he started applying himself seriously at the gym, something that his friend Naslund suggested to him as he was much more physically developed than Foppa at that age. That's how Peter ended up being physically dominant but with the technical skills and elusiveness of a small guy, and I don't think Foppa was all that big relative to NHL even at his peak. At least that's how I recall it my memory might be off but it's explained in the Peter Forsberg documentary.


If anyone's interested. It's from 7:35 on.

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01-06-2013, 07:54 AM
  #171
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Originally Posted by mozart4 View Post
The only way u can compare SEL teams with finnish teams is to examine where they actually competed, european trophy, where swedish teams did way better. Lindholm is having an amazing season in the better league and were one of the best players on this swedish wjc team that just proved so many doubters wrong. With that said you cant go wrong with any of them but I'd take Lindholm.
Tappara(Barkov`s team) was 10th in SM-liiga when they advanced to the european trophy semi-finals... So, your point is?

European trophy duties and plkaying 20min/g in SM-liiga as a 17yr is why Barkov wasnt at his best at WJC. Barkov was playing European trophy games when the others youngsters got rest before WJC.

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