HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Trade Rumors and Free Agent Talk Trade rumors, transactions, and free agent talk. Rumors must use the RUMOR prefix in thread title. Proposals must contain the PROPOSAL prefix in the thread title.

Luongo: The Neverending Story

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
01-06-2013, 11:39 AM
  #401
Ronning On Empty
Moderator
Formerly BleachClean
 
Ronning On Empty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 19,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
There are probably at least 4-5 teams interested. That's not a limited market.

Florida, Toronto and Edmonton have been confirmed - Chicago as well I believe showed interest. There could be a few more as well...

Gillis can afford to be patient here. Teams won't get desperate until games start to tick away and playof hopes begin to fade. The Canucks definately have the hammer here - biggest impact player available right now IMO.


I desperately want Gillis to carry Luongo into the season, at least for 5-10 games. It gives us a real glimpse of how other teams are performing, and how their needs might change.

Ronning On Empty is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:41 AM
  #402
Ronning On Empty
Moderator
Formerly BleachClean
 
Ronning On Empty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 19,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
And the cap is expected to go down even farther for the 2014-2015 season.

Every previous trade made or deal signed was in a world where the cap was expected to go up. Now it is expected to drop for atleast 2 seasons.

And it all pales in comparison to having a 6.75m Luongo on a 41m cap. That was a GM that made it work. His name was Nonis. A cap 23m lower than the 64.3m that we expect in a year.


Also, the cap is expected to go down in 2014-2015? Link?

Ronning On Empty is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:44 AM
  #403
Shawnathon
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2012
Posts: 320
vCash: 500
Now that the lockouts over, lets get Luongo moved so we can end this madness.

Shawnathon is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:46 AM
  #404
Ronning On Empty
Moderator
Formerly BleachClean
 
Ronning On Empty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 19,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Shawnathon View Post
Now that the lockouts over, lets get Luongo moved so we can end this madness.

Yes, and start the analysis of the deal itself, which will take another 100+ threads.

Ronning On Empty is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:50 AM
  #405
marty111
Registered User
 
marty111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,012
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Schroeder is strictly a C. That's a drawback for him.



I wouldn't mind Frattin. MacArthur is too similar to Raymond in play style for me to be interested. It all comes down to the package offered. Further, I think FLA is now more of an option due to the buyout function available.
I think that's fairly irrelevant.

marty111 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:50 AM
  #406
cyris
On a Soma Holiday
 
cyris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 3rd Planet From Sun.
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,679
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
And it all pales in comparison to having a 6.75m Luongo on a 41m cap. That was a GM that made it work. His name was Nonis. A cap 23m lower than the 64.3m that we expect in a year.


Also, the cap is expected to go down in 2014-2015? Link?
No link to prove the cap will go down again in 2014-2015 but for it not to NHL revenues would need to increase by over a quarter of a billion dollars over last season by next year. With the nhl fanbase mad over the lockout do you really see that happening?

cyris is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:53 AM
  #407
Ronning On Empty
Moderator
Formerly BleachClean
 
Ronning On Empty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 19,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
No link to prove the cap will go down again in 2014-2015 but for it not to NHL revenues would need to increase by over a quarter of a billion dollars over last season by next year. With the nhl fanbase mad over the lockout do you really see that happening?

Yes, I do. I don't think the cap comes down.


But to entertain that it does, will it go down past 41m? If not, I've shown a precedent where a 6.75m salary was acquired. Further, there was much discussion about moving Luongo here for a 60m cap. So as long as it doesn't tank past 60m, the world still exists.





Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I think that's fairly irrelevant.

Because?

Ronning On Empty is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:54 AM
  #408
Beezeral
Registered User
 
Beezeral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 4,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
There are probably at least 4-5 teams interested. That's not a limited market.

Florida, Toronto and Edmonton have been confirmed - Chicago as well I believe showed interest. There could be a few more as well...

Gillis can afford to be patient here. Teams won't get desperate until games start to tick away and playof hopes begin to fade. The Canucks definately have the hammer here - biggest impact player available right now IMO.
I can play this game as well.

Every game that goes by Markstrom gets a game closer to being NHL ready. Their need for Luongo decreases every single day.

On top of that, Luongo's play is not improving any time soon. He is 33. Every game that goes by where he is on Vancouver's bench is a game he is not playing for a new team while he still has value compared to his cap hit.

Luongo's decline is inevitable. It may not be this year, but it will happen eventually.

Beezeral is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:54 AM
  #409
Peter Griffin
Registered User
 
Peter Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I think that's fairly irrelevant.
Why? Florida could now conceivably include a contract such as Upshall's or Jovo's with the Canucks intent to buy-out said player. Saves the Panthers a lot of actual salary which seems to be the biggest sticking point.

Peter Griffin is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:57 AM
  #410
cyris
On a Soma Holiday
 
cyris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 3rd Planet From Sun.
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,679
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Why? Florida could now conceivably include a contract such as Upshall's or Jovo's with the Canucks intent to buy-out said player. Saves the Panthers a lot of actual salary which seems to be the biggest sticking point.
Do the Canucks want to carry Upshawl or Jovo for the rest of the season in order to buy them out?

cyris is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:59 AM
  #411
Ronning On Empty
Moderator
Formerly BleachClean
 
Ronning On Empty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 19,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
Do the Canucks want to carry Upshawl or Jovo for the rest of the season in order to buy them out?


Upshall still is an NHL player, and the Canucks will have cap this year. If his inclusion meant a greater return, or the choice between deal/no deal, then I don't mind if it happens.

Ronning On Empty is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:59 AM
  #412
cyris
On a Soma Holiday
 
cyris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 3rd Planet From Sun.
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,679
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Yes, I do. I don't think the cap comes down.


But to entertain that it does, will it go down past 41m? If not, I've shown a precedent where a 6.75m salary was acquired. Further, there was much discussion about moving Luongo here for a 60m cap. So as long as it doesn't tank past 60m, the world still exists.
It wont go down that far but it is a different situation. They knew the cap would be going up not down. Teams would be looking to add salary going forward not shed it.

cyris is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 11:59 AM
  #413
marty111
Registered User
 
marty111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,012
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Yes, I do. I don't think the cap comes down.


But to entertain that it does, will it go down past 41m? If not, I've shown a precedent where a 6.75m salary was acquired. Further, there was much discussion about moving Luongo here for a 60m cap. So as long as it doesn't tank past 60m, the world still exists.








Because?
I think because once that player resigns with a new team, the team buying him out only pays a portion of the buyout.

Buying out a guy at 4m over 3 years and then paying a portion depending how much they resign for isn't doing anyone a significant favour.

Case in point: Cody Franson last year who most people think he is a throw in.

marty111 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 12:02 PM
  #414
Peter Griffin
Registered User
 
Peter Griffin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Country: Canada
Posts: 28,078
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
Do the Canucks want to carry Upshawl or Jovo for the rest of the season in order to buy them out?

Depends when the deal is done and what the deal is. Personally I wouldn't be surprised if Roberto plays the whole season with Vancouver if the Canucks aren't getting back any legit NHL help.

Peter Griffin is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 12:02 PM
  #415
FAMOUSfin
Registered User
 
FAMOUSfin's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,036
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
Do the Canucks want to carry Upshawl or Jovo for the rest of the season in order to buy them out?
For Bjugstad? Yes.

FAMOUSfin is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 12:02 PM
  #416
Beezeral
Registered User
 
Beezeral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 4,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Griffin View Post
Why? Florida could now conceivably include a contract such as Upshall's or Jovo's with the Canucks intent to buy-out said player. Saves the Panthers a lot of actual salary which seems to be the biggest sticking point.
based only off of how the NBA handles their amnesty buyout after each CBA negotiation and the fact that it makes sense, teams are only allowed to amnesty buyout players that were on the roster before the lockout.

It would make sense for the NHL to adopt this idea. trading players for the sole purpose of being bought out just doesnt seem right to me

Beezeral is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 12:02 PM
  #417
WTFMAN99
Registered User
 
WTFMAN99's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,174
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bourne Endeavor View Post
He is also a UFA the following season and again, could not elevate his game whilst having high profiled players on either wing. How will he transition to inferior players, playing a tougher, grind and skill game which has been the stable of our bottom pairing?

Great; still does not make him an attracting piece. Franson would have little to impact on our roster and considering his supposed inability to play the left side, we have an additional cause for apprehension. Tanev plays the right and I imagine will not be shifted unless absolutely necessary.

Once again, your offer lacks any appeal of genuine good pieces for a player of Luongo's caliber.

Kulemin
Kadri
Franson

That would likely be thought low by a fair portion of our fanbase, thus few would accept anything less.
Well then either you or I will be getting a reality check when Luongo is dealt.

At this point i'll just wait and see what the deal turns out to be.

WTFMAN99 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 12:03 PM
  #418
Kyle Doobas*
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Canada
Posts: 8,662
vCash: 159
Well now that the lockout's over, at least this thread can really get going.

Kyle Doobas* is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 12:03 PM
  #419
cyris
On a Soma Holiday
 
cyris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: 3rd Planet From Sun.
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,679
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAMOUSfin View Post
For Bjugstad? Yes.
You aren't getting Bjugstad no matter what you take back.

cyris is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 12:04 PM
  #420
marty111
Registered User
 
marty111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,012
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAMOUSfin View Post
For Bjugstad? Yes.
It ain't going to happen.

marty111 is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 12:04 PM
  #421
Ronning On Empty
Moderator
Formerly BleachClean
 
Ronning On Empty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 19,990
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
It wont go down that far but it is a different situation. They knew the cap would be going up not down. Teams would be looking to add salary going forward not shed it.


But if the cap doesn't go down past 41m, an environment in which Luongo was moved and signed for 6.75m, isn't your point still moot?



Quote:
Originally Posted by marty111 View Post
I think because once that player resigns with a new team, the team buying him out only pays a portion of the buyout.

Buying out a guy at 4m over 3 years and then paying a portion depending how much they resign for isn't doing anyone a significant favour.

Case in point: Cody Franson last year who most people think he is a throw in.


You mean that if a bought-out player signs with a new team, the buy amount for the former team changes? Where is this referenced?


I'm not exactly sure what your point is here. Could you please clarify further?

Ronning On Empty is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 12:04 PM
  #422
Bourne Endeavor
Registered User
 
Bourne Endeavor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Country: Canada
Posts: 33,407
vCash: 178
Quote:
Originally Posted by WTFMAN99 View Post
Well then either you or I will be getting a reality check when Luongo is dealt.

At this point i'll just wait and see what the deal turns out to be.
Fair enough. I've been preparing to either eat or serve crow since February.

Bourne Endeavor is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 12:05 PM
  #423
Beezeral
Registered User
 
Beezeral's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Country: United States
Posts: 4,640
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FAMOUSfin View Post
For Bjugstad? Yes.
I thought we put this one to bed already

Beezeral is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 12:07 PM
  #424
Timmy
Registered User
 
Timmy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Country: Canada
Posts: 10,688
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cyris View Post
It wont go down that far but it is a different situation. They knew the cap would be going up not down. Teams would be looking to add salary going forward not shed it.

Some early reports coming out are indicating that the 64m cap can't go down, and that the reduction in players' share of HRR will be made up through increased escrow payment if revenues drop.

This hasn't been confirmed, but if true then GM's will have more confidence in trading for Luongo-type contracts, secure in the knowledge that they won't be in a bind should league revenues falter.

Other variables are how existing retirement contracts will be treated in the new CBA, and the indication that one-way salaries can't be buried in the AHL anymore. All prospective trading partners will likely wait until the ink is dry on the new CBA before resuming negotiations with Vancouver.

Timmy is offline  
Old
01-06-2013, 12:07 PM
  #425
marty111
Registered User
 
marty111's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,012
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
You mean that if a bought-out player signs with a new team, the buy amount for the former team changes? Where is this referenced?


I'm not exactly sure what your point is here. Could you please clarify further?
Maybe you could interrupt this better than I but that's what I'm getting from it.

What we do know:

Each team will be able to drop two player off their cap, as long as the contract was signed during the 2005 CBA.
The team is still responsible for paying that player for the remainder of the contract, it just won't show up on their cap.
The amnesty buyout still comes out of the PA's share.
The player will be placed on waivers, allowing other teams to submit contract offers to his agent.
Should a contract be accepted with a new team, his original team only has to pay the player for the difference between the two contracts (let's call this amnesty portion).

marty111 is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:09 PM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2017 All Rights Reserved.