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Luongo: The Neverending Story

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Old
01-06-2013, 02:34 PM
  #501
Peter Griffin
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Originally Posted by Beezeral View Post
You mean the goalie that is hated by the majority of the fanbase after his exit? Definitely not a fan favorite in Florida anymore.
Diehards maybe. But I'm sure management/ownership can sell him to the casual's that they're after.

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01-06-2013, 02:35 PM
  #502
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Bjugstad is not going anywhere. Vancouver needs to rid themselves of Luongo more than Florida needs to trade for him. Someone like Bjugstad will not be made available in a deal for Luongo. Its pretty clear how high Tallon is on Bjugstad. IF a deal were to be made with Florida, a prospect not named Bjugstad, Huberdeau, Gudbranson, or Markstrom will not be involved.


I agree that those prospects/young players will be excluded. Not the others though. It just remains to be seen if that Shannon report (Lu to TOR) had some truth to it or not. We should find out pretty quick.

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01-06-2013, 02:39 PM
  #503
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I agree that those prospects/young players will be excluded. Not the others though. It just remains to be seen if that Shannon report (Lu to TOR) had some truth to it or not. We should find out pretty quick.
Since you agree the Panthers won't be giving up those specifc players, does that mean you also agree the Maple Leafs won't be giving up Gardiner, Rielly, Kadri, Finn and etc.

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01-06-2013, 02:39 PM
  #504
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What about, and hear me out, Weiss or Flash or (gulp) Versteeg, Shore and your choice of a salary dump, I'd assume Upshall, Kopecky or Jovanovski?
No way Weiss and Shore go together that whole weak down the middle thing. Could see Shore going but doubt Tallon is giving up 1 of our 3 best forwards and a good prospect for a position that isn't a huge need. I'm not saying he won't be a upgrade over what the Panthers have in net now, but the Panthers missed the playoffs the 5 years he was here so he isn't a playoff guarantee.

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01-06-2013, 02:41 PM
  #505
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I remember canucks fans saying that his value would increase because if he retired/got sent to the minors his cap hit would return to the canucks. Is this true in the new cba? if not his value would probaly come down alot

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01-06-2013, 02:41 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by PBPantherfan View Post
No way Weiss and Shore go together that whole weak down the middle thing. Could see Shore going but doubt Tallon is giving up 1 of our 3 best forwards and a good prospect for a position that isn't a huge need. I'm not saying he won't be a upgrade over what the Panthers have in net now, but the Panthers missed the playoffs the 5 years he was here so he isn't a playoff guarantee.
Shore is not getting traded. No chance. He's leading the Rampage in scoring.

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01-06-2013, 02:42 PM
  #507
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At this point, I just hope Luongo ends up here so Canucks fans realize just how delusional they were throughout the process.

You're not getting any of our top prospects. South Florida is not a farm system for Canadian teams when they need to get rid of a bad contract.

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01-06-2013, 02:44 PM
  #508
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Originally Posted by PBPantherfan View Post
No way Weiss and Shore go together that whole weak down the middle thing. Could see Shore going but doubt Tallon is giving up 1 of our 3 best forwards and a good prospect for a position that isn't a huge need. I'm not saying he won't be a upgrade over what the Panthers have in net now, but the Panthers missed the playoffs the 5 years he was here so he isn't a playoff guarantee.
No no, fair enough, it's been awhile since proposals involving the Panthers were made here, and in light of new information, I'd take a stab at it. What about Petrovic instead of Shore then? Anything from ourside to close the gap?

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01-06-2013, 02:44 PM
  #509
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LOL @ thinking Bjugstad is going to get traded for Roberto. You're not getting our best center prospect. You'll get something similar to the Brian Campbell trade. Tallon isn't sacrificing any top prospects for a goalie we don't even really need.

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01-06-2013, 02:46 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by topchowda View Post
I remember canucks fans saying that his value would increase because if he retired/got sent to the minors his cap hit would return to the canucks. Is this true in the new cba? if not his value would probaly come down alot
Nothing at all. It looks like existing contracts are grandfathered, and the new CBA blocks contracts that match Luongo's or Hossa's or Kovalchuk's.

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01-06-2013, 02:49 PM
  #511
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
LOL @ thinking Bjugstad is going to get traded for Roberto. You're not getting our best center prospect. You'll get something similar to the Brian Campbell trade. Tallon isn't sacrificing any top prospects for a goalie we don't even really need.
No one really needs any player. But there is no doubt that Luongo is a huge upgrade over Florida's current goaktending. I doubt that many Canuck's fans think that Bjugstad is available though.

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01-06-2013, 02:51 PM
  #512
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Originally Posted by RainingRats View Post
LOL @ thinking Bjugstad is going to get traded for Roberto. You're not getting our best center prospect. You'll get something similar to the Brian Campbell trade. Tallon isn't sacrificing any top prospects for a goalie we don't even really need.
I think it will cost us a little bit more than just a Olesz. IMO, if a trade were to go down, I see Tallon giving up a pick (not a first), second tier prospect, and salary going the other way. We have to remember that aside from putting Luongo on waivers, Vancouver cant do much if Luongo doesnt waive his NTC.

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01-06-2013, 02:51 PM
  #513
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Since you agree the Panthers won't be giving up those specifc players, does that mean you also agree the Maple Leafs won't be giving up Gardiner, Rielly, Kadri, Finn and etc.

Gardiner and Reilly aren't going anywhere. Kadri and Finn are fair game. They are not on the level of the other two, nor do they stack up with the FLA prospects listed.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Erick View Post
At this point, I just hope Luongo ends up here so Canucks fans realize just how delusional they were throughout the process.

You're not getting any of our top prospects. South Florida is not a farm system for Canadian teams when they need to get rid of a bad contract.

Cap-circumventing deals are not bad contracts. I would have thought the fight about the CBA would have cleared that up by now?

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01-06-2013, 02:52 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by vanwest View Post
No one really needs any player. But there is no doubt that Luongo is a huge upgrade over Florida's current goaktending. I doubt that many Canuck's fans think that Bjugstad is available though.
I wish he was.

After Huberdeau's WJC performance, maybe we have a better chance of getting Hubz though.

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01-06-2013, 02:54 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by pb1300 View Post
I think it will cost us a little bit more than just a Olesz. IMO, if a trade were to go down, I see Tallon giving up a pick (not a first), second tier prospect, and salary going the other way. We have to remember that aside from putting Luongo on waivers, Vancouver cant do much if Luongo doesnt waive his NTC.


True. They can't do much but keep him stapled to the bench in VAN. Luongo's not going to just anywhere, but he would have to think long and hard about exercising that NTC for all teams but FLA.

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01-06-2013, 02:55 PM
  #516
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Gardiner and Reilly aren't going anywhere. Kadri and Finn are fair game. They are not on the level of the other two, nor do they stack up with the FLA prospects listed.
Kadri could be fair game since he's been around the Leafs system for a couple of years and this will be a make it or break it time for him. However I can't see Finn getting moved because he was talked about a possible 1st round pick this past June and everyone said Toronto was lucky to have got him in the 2nd round.

Would you be more interested in Joe Colborne? I know his stats with the Marlies this season haven't been as good like they should be, however he is starting to play a lot better and is a big body at Centre.

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01-06-2013, 02:57 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by Bleach Clean View Post
Gardiner and Reilly aren't going anywhere. Kadri and Finn are fair game. They are not on the level of the other two, nor do they stack up with the FLA prospects listed.





Cap-circumventing deals are not bad contracts. I would have thought the fight about the CBA would have cleared that up by now?
Spin it anyway you'd like, in the context of Luongo on the Canucks, it is a bad contract. He's currently the Canucks backup goalie. At best, splitting time with Schneider.

What leverage do the Canucks have in such a deal to be asking a team for top prospects? They're not getting top prospects.

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01-06-2013, 02:59 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by LEAFS FAN 4 EVER View Post
Kadri could be fair game since he's been around the Leafs system for a couple of years and this will be a make it or break it time for him. However I can't see Finn getting moved because he was talked about a possible 1st round pick this past June and everyone said Toronto was lucky to have got him in the 2nd round.

Would you be more interested in Joe Colborne? I know his stats with the Marlies this season haven't been as good like they should be, however he is starting to play a lot better and is a big body at Centre.


Finn would be harder to justify yeah, but not because of the perception that he could have been a 1st. He was just recently drafted, that's why. It would be hard to move him for that reason.



It's Colborne or Bozak, not both. Whomever it is, he's going to be playing 3C here. My guess is that because Bozak has NHL pedigree, and that the Canucks are in a win-now mode, that they would favour Bozak.

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01-06-2013, 03:02 PM
  #519
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Spin it anyway you'd like, in the context of Luongo on the Canucks, it is a bad contract. He's currently the Canucks backup goalie. At best, splitting time with Schneider.

What leverage do the Canucks have in such a deal to be asking a team for top prospects? They're not getting top prospects.


On the Canucks, because they have a different #1, sure. They have to move Lu, and 5.3m doesn't make sense to retain. However, on its own, his deal is so good it was made illegal. That's not spin, that's why they had the CBA feud they did over variance and term.


Depends on what you define as a top prospect. The leverage is Luongo himself. The ability of the player himself. It makes no difference if he is lower on the depth chart. Was Staal valued less because he was a 3C in Pitt? Luongo's record is strong and he is a known name around the league. His statistical record puts him in a select group. That's all the leverage one needs.

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01-06-2013, 03:06 PM
  #520
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Important to point out that Florida and Toronto will be competing for a playoff spot.

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01-06-2013, 03:07 PM
  #521
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Finn would be harder to justify yeah, but not because of the perception that he could have been a 1st. He was just recently drafted, that's why. It would be hard to move him for that reason.



It's Colborne or Bozak, not both. Whomever it is, he's going to be playing 3C here. My guess is that because Bozak has NHL pedigree, and that the Canucks are in a win-now mode, that they would favour Bozak.
I can see the Canucks wanting to win now part. So it doesn't matter that Bozak is set to become a UFA and could only be there for a few months. At least with Colborne he would be there a lot longer.

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01-06-2013, 03:08 PM
  #522
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Spin it anyway you'd like, in the context of Luongo on the Canucks, it is a bad contract. He's currently the Canucks backup goalie. At best, splitting time with Schneider.

What leverage do the Canucks have in such a deal to be asking a team for top prospects? They're not getting top prospects.
Two games. Schneider took two starts from Luongo, and he's stolen his job....only on HF. If you think, if we keep both, even until the start of the season, that Luongo will just accept the media's view that Schneider is our guaranteed starter, or is it far more likely he whips himself into better shape and fights for the starting position? I can't comment on his time in Florida, but when he's been pushed internally here, he's stepped up.

Top prospects, and whether your team wants to move them, is different for every team. Florida's top prospects beat the pants off of most teams, and we're not asking for the Markstroms, the Huberdeaus or the Gudbransons, but your second tier prospects, the likely but not blue chippers. You don't need a goalie, you have salary and possibly cap concerns, certainly don't accept our proposals if you don't like them, but don't tell us our interpretation of a contract for our player is wrong because you don't like it or don't understand it.

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01-06-2013, 03:09 PM
  #523
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Important to point out that Florida and Toronto will be competing for a playoff spot.
If Florida happens to win the Southeast Divsion again that won't happen since it gives them a guaranteed spot between 1st - 3rd in the Eastern Conference.

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01-06-2013, 03:10 PM
  #524
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I can see the Canucks wanting to win now part. So it doesn't matter that Bozak is set to become a UFA and could only be there for a few months. At least with Colborne he would be there a lot longer.

Yeah, there's a trade off. I just think they'll go with the "safer" bet in Bozak because it's about winning now. They'll worry about him walking later.



Quote:
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If Florida happens to win the Southeast Divsion again that won't happen since it gives them a guaranteed spot between 1st - 3rd in the Eastern Conference.


FLA got 94 points last year. The playoff cut-off was 92 points. They would have made it regardless, division win or not.

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01-06-2013, 03:14 PM
  #525
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On the Canucks, because they have a different #1, sure. They have to move Lu, and 5.3m doesn't make sense to retain. However, on its own, his deal is so good it was made illegal. That's not spin, that's why they had the CBA feud they did over variance and term.


Depends on what you define as a top prospect. The leverage is Luongo himself. The ability of the player himself. It makes no difference if he is lower on the depth chart. Was Staal valued less because he was a 3C in Pitt? Luongo's record is strong and he is a known name around the league. His statistical record puts him in a select group. That's all the leverage one needs.
Staal was incredibly more valuable.
He CLEARLY is a scoring-line C on any other team and any other team would've loved to have him.

Staal is also only 24 years old; Luongo, on the other hand, is turning 34 in 3 months.

This is not the same at all.

There are like, what, maybe a handful of teams interested in Luongo at all, if that? That doesn't make things better for the Canucks either, in terms of leverage.

From the Panthers perspective, why should we even give up a top prospect at all? One of our top prospects is arguably the best goalie in the world not in the NHL yet (Markstrom).

The Canucks have a necessity to move Luongo. The Panthers don't have a necessity to acquire a goalie; it would be a luxury.

The Panthers are not giving up upcoming centers like Bjugstad and Shore when they really need centers, and it's difficult to get top free agents to come here. They're building around guys like that, not trading them for 34-year-old goaltenders.

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