And I've seen it argued on the Trade board that Krejci was the #1 center for that run when arguing about his trade value.
A lot of people will, and they might not be wrong either.
Krejci scored 23 in 25 games while Bergeron scored 20 in 23. There's really not much of a difference, Krejci scored 3 more in 2 more games, but Bergeron was a major part of shutting down the opposition's first line every single night, which more than makes up for that 4% difference in PPG average, if you ask me. Both were terrific in scoring in the 2011 playoffs, and we wouldn't have won without either of them.
That's just my opinion and it's pretty annoying when people say it's "wrong" without any further argument. If you think it's wrong, please tell me why. (Not directing that at you)
So many people undervalue defensive play. Just because it's hard to quantify doesn't mean it isn't worth considering. Bergeron's all-around game is on another level than most players, and I'd rank his hockey sense right at the top of the league.
I actually think its the complete opposite. People overrate defensive play and forget the objective of the game is to score goals. It's assumed that if your an offensive star and not a Selke candidate you must be awful defensively.
I actually think its the complete opposite. People overrate defensive play and forget the objective of the game is to score goals. It's assumed that if your an offensive star and not a Selke candidate you must be awful defensively.
I agree in general. But I still pick Bergeron in this case.
Bergeron gets more points than Krejci and has arguably the best defensive play in the league, and you think Krejci is our #1? Krejci is underrated defensively, he kills penalties in our defensive-minded system, but he's sure as hell no Bergeron.
There's a difference between playing on the first line and being the #1 center. Bergeron's game is much more suited for a second line shutdown role. He's still our best forward and #1 center.
During the cup run. Krejci was the number one center. He received the hardest defensive matchups in every single series.
Habs:Subban, gill
Flyers:timonen,coburn and for one game pronger/carle
tampa:brewer, ohlund(?) I forget the second guy
canucks:hamhuis, bieksa
You could maybe argue bergeron was better than krejci in the playoffs, or at least equivalent, but that does not equate to being the "number one center"
Furthermore, to say he was "right in line" after thomas is also a HIGHLY debatable point, to the lengths that I will say it is straight up wrong.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dellstrom
A lot of people will, and they might not be wrong either.
Krejci scored 23 in 25 games while Bergeron scored 20 in 23. There's really not much of a difference, Krejci scored 3 more in 2 more games, but Bergeron was a major part of shutting down the opposition's first line every single night, which more than makes up for that 4% difference in PPG average, if you ask me. Both were terrific in scoring in the 2011 playoffs, and we wouldn't have won without either of them.
That's just my opinion and it's pretty annoying when people say it's "wrong" without any further argument. If you think it's wrong, please tell me why. (Not directing that at you)
To recap, your wild and consistently inaccurate posts.
We have this line, "Bergeron gets more points than Krejci"
Followed by, "Krejci scored 23 in 25 games while Bergeron scored 20 in 23. There's really not much of a difference,"
Getzlaf is lazy and inconsistent. I'll take Bergeron at this point AINEC. Marginally less offense, and Selke-winning defense.
With Getzlaf, you don't know what you're getting from game to game.
15 points isn't really a marginal difference in offense. This is considering Bergeron as a 65 point center and Getzlaf as a 80 point center, which is pretty modest for Getzlaf who was over a point per game 4 straight seasons before 2011-2012. The difference between 80 and 65 points is the difference between guys like Kopitar, Thornton, Hossa and guys like Purcell, Pacioretty, Couture. It's a pretty significant leap.
During the cup run. Krejci was the number one center. He received the hardest defensive matchups in every single series.
Habs:Subban, gill
Flyers:timonen,coburn and for one game pronger/carle
tampa:brewer, ohlund(?) I forget the second guy
canucks:hamhuis, bieksa
You could maybe argue bergeron was better than krejci in the playoffs, or at least equivalent, but that does not equate to being the "number one center"
Furthermore, to say he was "right in line" after thomas is also a HIGHLY debatable point, to the lengths that I will say it is straight up wrong.
To recap, your wild and consistently inaccurate posts.
We have this line, "Bergeron gets more points than Krejci"
Followed by, "Krejci scored 23 in 25 games while Bergeron scored 20 in 23. There's really not much of a difference,"
At least attempt to use facts, or some semblance of consistent logic.
I meant last season, and 3 points with Bergeron playing 2 games less is that significant? You could definitely go Chara after Thomas but I have a hard time seeing Bergeron much further than third. But, of course, if you're not willing to tell me who you think was next in line I suppose I could just call you wrong and technically be right.
I actually think its the complete opposite. People overrate defensive play and forget the objective of the game is to score goals. It's assumed that if your an offensive star and not a Selke candidate you must be awful defensively.
And just like thinking the game is to outscore the opponent, I see it as a game that is to allow less goals than the opponent.
See what that means?
You need a combination of both in hockey.
And there is no statistic, measure, metric, shortcut, or data outside of actually watching a player that can tell you if they are valuable or not.
Getzlaf for example is far from a defensive liability.
People seem to fail to take this into consideration and label Getzlaf as being average at best defensively. From 08-09 to 10-11 Getzlaf's line would go head to head against the opposing teams top forwards and Getzlaf's line would normally come out better off. While he wasn't being used in a strict shutdown sense, Getzlaf has always very capable defensively. He's no Selke candidate, but he's certainly above average.
Assuming Getzlaf bounces back from his bad year, when you factor in physical play and offensive ability he should take this poll easily.
People seem to fail to take this into consideration and label Getzlaf as being average at best defensively. From 08-09 to 10-11 Getzlaf's line would go head to head against the opposing teams top forwards and Getzlaf's line would normally come out better off. While he wasn't being used in a strict shutdown sense, Getzlaf has always very capable defensively. He's no Selke candidate, but he's certainly above average.
Assuming Getzlaf bounces back from his bad year, when you factor in physical play and offensive ability he should take this poll easily.
Agreed what a lot of people on here also tend to forget is that offense and defense are not equal when it comes to forwards. A guy with elite offensive skills and no defensive skills is a highly valued forward while a guy with elite defensive skills and no offensive skills is a good fourth liner.
People seem to fail to take this into consideration and label Getzlaf as being average at best defensively. From 08-09 to 10-11 Getzlaf's line would go head to head against the opposing teams top forwards and Getzlaf's line would normally come out better off. While he wasn't being used in a strict shutdown sense, Getzlaf has always very capable defensively. He's no Selke candidate, but he's certainly above average.
Assuming Getzlaf bounces back from his bad year, when you factor in physical play and offensive ability he should take this poll easily.
Just to add on, under Carlyle Getzlaf was the first choice as the forward on a 3 on 5 PK and it was not because of his faceoff prowess, or lack there of. He didn't, or I guess I should say rarely played, on a 4 on 5 PK because he doesn't have to.
I meant last season, and 3 points with Bergeron playing 2 games less is that significant? You could definitely go Chara after Thomas but I have a hard time seeing Bergeron much further than third. But, of course, if you're not willing to tell me who you think was next in line I suppose I could just call you wrong and technically be right.
Your posts contain no consistency from thought to thought.
I was merely pointing out you contradicting yourself, and it completely went flying over your head. You even restate it here in this post, but somehow it still goes over your head.
As for players from the cup run I'd put in front of bergeron, it would be chara and krejci. Chara with a clear significant notch above krejci and bergeron by the way.
Man Bergeron is such a winner I can't believe he led Team Canada in the olympics. Wow they were such an underdog story in WJC 2005, that team was really carried by such a winner like Bergeron I can't even recognize any of the names on those rosters.
People seem to fail to take this into consideration and label Getzlaf as being average at best defensively. From 08-09 to 10-11 Getzlaf's line would go head to head against the opposing teams top forwards and Getzlaf's line would normally come out better off. While he wasn't being used in a strict shutdown sense, Getzlaf has always very capable defensively. He's no Selke candidate, but he's certainly above average.
Assuming Getzlaf bounces back from his bad year, when you factor in physical play and offensive ability he should take this poll easily.
While Getzlaf is above average defensively, Bergeron is above average offensively. Bergeron is also one of the best faceoff men in the league ( top 3 ) while Getzlaf is poor at the dot. Faceoff ability is a huge difference between the two, I think it was a 12 percent difference last year ( career wise Bergeron has been better as well ).
On the habs, Getzlaf AINEC. Plekanec is quite close to Bergeron, maybe slightly less better but pretty much the same type of players with similar production.
Although Bergeron is a great two-way player it tells something when Getzlaf has absolutely horrible season and is only 7 points behind Bergeron in scoring. I take Getzlaf.
