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NHL Lockout Discussion XLVI: There's nothing in the street-looks any different to me

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01-05-2013, 10:50 AM
  #76
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Good that the mediator sees that the process should continue. But I wonder if both sides agree. The NHL wanted the mediation this time around.

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01-05-2013, 10:51 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Freudian View Post
I read somewhere that mediators like long days because it makes the parties less stubborn. If it's just short sessions, it's easier to dig in.
That has been true in my experiences with mediation. Short sessions are almost always a waste of time, and breakthroughs are much more common late in the day.

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Old
01-05-2013, 10:55 AM
  #78
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Originally Posted by patnyrnyg View Post
In most "normal" unions the union leadership is no longer performing the jobs of the membership. Their job IS to negotiate and deal with issues that arise.
The PA has people who can negotiate and inform player reps when they need to.

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01-05-2013, 10:56 AM
  #79
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The good news is that the mediator said last night of the NHL and the NHLPA that the current process deserved to continue

http://twitter.com/RenLavoieRDS/stat...88562130579456
It's quite sad that at this stage a mediator needs to remind both sides they need to continue with the process. I'd say it's about time that both sides check their egos at the door, stop with the childish antics and sit down face to face and iron this **** out.

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01-05-2013, 10:56 AM
  #80
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Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
And the back and forth begins again. Mediator headed to NHL office now "@aaronward_nhl: Federal Mediator has left the meeting with NHLPA."
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite
https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...02100718927873

Let the day begin!

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Old
01-05-2013, 11:01 AM
  #81
TheSniper26
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Originally Posted by Beukeboom Fan View Post
Disagree because of the following :

Variance- league apparently offered 30% variance, which completely makes this a non-issue.

CBA term: supposedly both sides agree to a 10 year term, but league wants optional out clause at year 8 compared.to the PA wanting at year 7. Again - not a big issue.

Player contract term: Owners want 6/7, players supposedly want 7/7. Not a big difference.

2013-2014 Cap: Does not impact what the owners payout in salary after escrow. Should not be significant.

Pension: Could be a big deal. Haven't heard any details.

Obviously, above are just IMO based on rumored positions on each side.
Fair enough. I hope you're right. As you said, we're all just speculating based on rumors really. I'm just concerned that the constant dragging of the feet is less about waiting for a deadline and more about genuinely not budging on some issues.

There is this feeling out there that, as the deadline approaches, both sides will start making concessions. It's certainly possible, but it's based on little more than wishful thinking. I don't know if I'm ready to buy into the "they'll never lose a season over this stuff" line of thinking just yet.

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01-05-2013, 11:04 AM
  #82
Habaneros
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Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
It's quite sad that at this stage a mediator needs to remind both sides they need to continue with the process. I'd say it's about time that both sides check their egos at the door, stop with the childish antics and sit down face to face and iron this **** out.
It is all about like last cba...he is trying to do the same to Fehr,no care for the game...listen to Jimmy Devellano

Quote:
.. "Gary Bettman took Bob Goodenow's eyes
out and put grapes in," said Devellano
Quote:
"Gary Bettman was hired to do two things," Jimmy Devellano , senior VP and alternate governor of the Detroit Red Wings, said yesterday. "One, to grow the game in the U.S. Two, to get a
hard (players') salary cap. Nothing more. Nothing less. He's delivered on both counts."
To achieve the second objective, Bettman, with his owners' blessing, shut down the NHL for the entire 2004-05 season. He went head-to-head with players' union boss Bob Goodenow.
"Gary Bettman took Bob Goodenow's eyes out and put grapes in," said Devellano from Anaheim, where the Wings faced the Ducks last night.
Bettman gets a bad rap in Canada, said Devellano , a Toronto native. "People in Canada fail to want to understand it is now an American game. We have 24 teams in the U.S. and six in
Canada – 25 owners, including Montreal, are American. There's 300 million people in the U.S., 30 million in Canada. .... I think he gets castigated in Canada way more than he should be."


Last edited by Habaneros: 01-05-2013 at 11:09 AM.
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01-05-2013, 11:12 AM
  #83
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The only one that I can remember was Hitchcock, and he had an awesome quote which was pretty general and didn't point any fingers. Just something along the lines of how everyone involved with the NHL knows how lucky they are.
Sounds like the coaches would only hurt themselves by getting involved. My silly idea was to bring the coaches in as mediators, because that's kind of their regular season job anyway!

I have another question, which is how does the union keep francophone players in the loop when all this is going on? There must be a translator on staff?

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01-05-2013, 11:14 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Hot Water Bottle View Post
Sounds like the coaches would only hurt themselves by getting involved. My silly idea was to bring the coaches in as mediators, because that's kind of their regular season job anyway!

I have another question, which is how does the union keep francophone players in the loop when all this is going on? There must be a translator on staff?
If there isn't a translator, there are certainly a number of multi-lingual players who could be up for the task.

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01-05-2013, 11:15 AM
  #85
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Hopefully both sides meet until 11 pm tonight only to say "The process will continue tomorrow at 10 AM" just to troll everybody.

Because we all know that's where this is going. Only this league, ONLY this league could have marathon meetings like this and still not have a deal.

Bettman, and Fehr, need to F-OFF immediately.

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01-05-2013, 11:16 AM
  #86
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Originally Posted by Hot Water Bottle View Post
Sounds like the coaches would only hurt themselves by getting involved. My silly idea was to bring the coaches in as mediators, because that's kind of their regular season job anyway!

I have another question, which is how does the union keep francophone players in the loop when all this is going on? There must be a translator on staff?
Mathieu Darche is french...he also has a business and commerce degree


Last edited by Habaneros: 01-05-2013 at 11:28 AM.
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Old
01-05-2013, 11:19 AM
  #87
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
Fair enough. I hope you're right. As you said, we're all just speculating based on rumors really. I'm just concerned that the constant dragging of the feet is less about waiting for a deadline and more about genuinely not budging on some issues.

There is this feeling out there that, as the deadline approaches, both sides will start making concessions. It's certainly possible, but it's based on little more than wishful thinking. I don't know if I'm ready to buy into the "they'll never lose a season over this stuff" line of thinking just yet.
I tend to agree with you. Nowhere have I seen or heard from the PA/NHL that there is an agreement on anything. It's always the media 'guessing' on what they 'think' is happening and they're 'close' on this and 'almost' agreed on that...It could be all bull for all we actually know. Perhaps the only reason the mediators are involved again is to cover off any issues that may arise when they go to court later on when the season is cancelled and the PA file their DOI...

This circus is mostly created by the media so they get 'followers' and have someone read/listen to their information from 'sources', which they can't reveal and seem to be wrong a lot more than right.

I'll wait to hear from the leadership of the NHL/PA when they say there has been an agreement on 'anything'.

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Old
01-05-2013, 11:21 AM
  #88
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how many consecutive days are we up to now with both sides talking? I know recently they aren't talking face to face but the process in general has been uninterrupted for at least 7 days now, right? Starting with the League's post-Christmas proposal?

This is the longest they've gone without talks blowing up, right? I guess we can chalk that up to it being the 11th hour

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Old
01-05-2013, 11:23 AM
  #89
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Originally Posted by IslesBeBack View Post
Hopefully both sides meet until 11 pm tonight only to say "The process will continue tomorrow at 10 AM" just to troll everybody.

Because we all know that's where this is going. Only this league, ONLY this league could have marathon meetings like this and still not have a deal.

Bettman, and Fehr, need to F-OFF immediately.
Many, many industries have had marathon meetings and accomplished nothing.

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01-05-2013, 11:25 AM
  #90
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Originally Posted by sheed36 View Post
It's quite sad that at this stage a mediator needs to remind both sides they need to continue with the process. I'd say it's about time that both sides check their egos at the door, stop with the childish antics and sit down face to face and iron this **** out.
I didn't see that comment that way at all. Nobody has to be reminded that they have to continue. What I took from that is the mediator reminding them that progress is indeed being made, which would be easier for him to see than the parties involved.

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01-05-2013, 11:28 AM
  #91
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I'm the only Canadian where I live now so people ask me what is up with the lockout...

I tell them that it's worth the frustration because it keeps the NHL healthy and keeps it from being a fake TMZ-like league with overpaid cartoon characters like Alex Rodriguez and tacky crap like the Dallas Cowboys stadium.

I hope I'm right... (I'm sort of trying to convince myself)

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01-05-2013, 11:29 AM
  #92
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Originally Posted by TheSniper26 View Post
Fair enough. I hope you're right. As you said, we're all just speculating based on rumors really. I'm just concerned that the constant dragging of the feet is less about waiting for a deadline and more about genuinely not budging on some issues.

There is this feeling out there that, as the deadline approaches, both sides will start making concessions. It's certainly possible, but it's based on little more than wishful thinking. I don't know if I'm ready to buy into the "they'll never lose a season over this stuff" line of thinking just yet.
That's the REAL issue. From what's been circulated - they are REALLY freaking close, and none of the remaining issue (except potentially the pension IMO) are anywhere close to worth blowing up the season and causing even more significant damage to the brand.

And that is the part that is SO frustrating about this. By dicking around this week - they cost themselves $130M. None of the issues left would seem to have that sort of impact over the term of the CBA to justify losing that money. At this point it all seems to be about ego, which is just ludicrious from the NHL. I'm pro-owner, and at some point the league needs to be the bigger "person". Give on the stuff that doesn't really matter, and let the PA feel like they "won". The league got the important "core" long term systemic issue they felt they needed (50/50 split). The year 2013/14 salary cap number or having the out year in year 7 or 8 of the CBA isn't a huge deal. Losing an entire 2nd season WOULD be a HUGE deal.

Do whatever you have to get this done as soon as possible, and then start trying to actually mend fences where there is some trust in the relationship. If that means asking for player involvement in discussion around realignment - make it happen.

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01-05-2013, 11:30 AM
  #93
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
It is all about like last cba...he is trying to do the same to Fehr,no care for the game...listen to Jimmy Devellano
That was highly entertaining . Devellano has a way with words.

But the League has gone all out at various times in the course of this lockout to try and resolve the issues and/or to get the PA to stop the stonewalling and engage in real negotiations
.
Dragging out this process is on Fehr. We can see it now with a total of 7 days lost to 2 useless and unnecessary votes on DOI(which does not require a vote) and the phony outrage yesterday over changes in wording that the owners purportedly changed after the DOI deadline only to have it revealed that the changes were sent to the PA a week previous and the issue resolved before the deadline.

The players fall for it every time though it seems that some reporters are at long last starting to clue into Fehrs games.

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01-05-2013, 11:36 AM
  #94
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adater https://twitter.com/adater/status/287613386202677248
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Two top hockey industry sources: things positive again in talks. "Things are moving again" said one

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01-05-2013, 11:37 AM
  #95
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Originally Posted by Habaneros View Post
It is all about like last cba...he is trying to do the same to Fehr,no care for the game...listen to Jimmy Devellano
And I suppose you think Don Fehr cares about the game of hockey?

I can understand people taking sides but how can anyone at this point still not see that both sides are the problem and not just one.

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Old
01-05-2013, 11:37 AM
  #96
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Round and round we go.

Quote:
Pierre LeBrun ‏@Real_ESPNLeBrun
Mediator has left NHL office, now headed back to NHLPA hotel. And yes, I'm sorry for the play by play.
Expand Reply Retweet Favorite
https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...13597792739328

Beckenbaugh is certainly getting his exercise.

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01-05-2013, 11:40 AM
  #97
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Round and round we go.



https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...13597792739328

Beckenbaugh is certainly getting his exercise.
How far apart can they be? I mean seriously. Today is the perfect day to have a 5 PM press conference, right around dinner, and have these two meatheads skip onto the stage to announce a deal. JUST GET IT DONE.

God damnit I want to be in the Coliseum screaming at Ranger fans during a NYI-NYR game. Can I just have my one piece of sanity as I go for my masters? I need hockey back in my life.

And I need it bad.

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01-05-2013, 11:40 AM
  #98
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Round and round we go.



https://twitter.com/Real_ESPNLeBrun/...13597792739328

Beckenbaugh is certainly getting his exercise.
This is good.

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01-05-2013, 11:42 AM
  #99
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That was highly entertaining . Devellano has a way with words.

But the League has gone all out at various times in the course of this lockout to try and resolve the issues and/or to get the PA to stop the stonewalling and engage in real negotiations .
Dragging out this process is on Fehr. We can see it now with a total of 7 days lost to 2 useless and unnecessary votes on DOI(which does not require a vote) and the phony outrage yesterday over changes in wording that the owners purportedly changed after the DOI deadline only to have it revealed that the changes were sent to the PA a week previous and the issue resolved before the deadline.

The players fall for it every time though it seems that some reporters are at long last starting to clue into Fehrs games.
Come on now. After having lost almost two full seasons in 3 work stoppages at some point you have to put some of the blame on Bettman.

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01-05-2013, 11:42 AM
  #100
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Originally Posted by Hot Water Bottle View Post
I tell them that it's worth the frustration because it keeps the NHL healthy and keeps it from being a fake TMZ-like league with overpaid cartoon characters like Alex Rodriguez and tacky crap like the Dallas Cowboys stadium.

I hope I'm right... (I'm sort of trying to convince myself)
First point, maybe. 2nd point, no, just no. The NFL is 10x the league the NHL could wish to be. If there was a demand for a 100,000 seat arena, NHL owners would build it in a heartbeat.

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