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Old
05-16-2013, 07:59 PM
  #526
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aresknights View Post
No doubt itll be a while before London gets it again.
It had BETTER be a long while. You think the rest of the OHL fanbase is ticked off now? It'll be a LOT worse if we have a rerun of this a few years down the road.

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05-16-2013, 08:10 PM
  #527
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Originally Posted by ckg927 View Post
It had BETTER be a long while. You think the rest of the OHL fanbase is ticked off now? It'll be a LOT worse if we have a rerun of this a few years down the road.
Might as well prep yourself now..because they will host again within the next 10 years unless someone else builds a similar rink and has similar success. The Memorial Cup has become a business..it's not just a tournament for Junior Hockey anymore. If London has the strongest bid 9 years from now..they'll win the hosting rights then too.

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05-16-2013, 09:06 PM
  #528
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Originally Posted by PhlyerPhanatic View Post
Might as well prep yourself now..because they will host again within the next 10 years unless someone else builds a similar rink and has similar success. The Memorial Cup has become a business..it's not just a tournament for Junior Hockey anymore. If London has the strongest bid 9 years from now..they'll win the hosting rights then too.
I'm surprised if London is such a hotbed for hockey, how come the AHL doesn't consider expansion into the market - Toronto, Hamilton just down the road. Grand Rapids the other way.

What if London finally gets caught for their blatant recruiting violations?

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05-16-2013, 09:07 PM
  #529
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The Memorial Cup has lost it's integrity thanks to Mr. Branch.

His thirst for big revenue has tilted the ice in favour of the host team.

Last year was a joke when the host won after months off and the Blades are preparing their fans for the same.

Teams play their guts out to win there respective league championships and the host usually gets a pass to the final.

IMHO the league titles hold the most prestige until Branch decides that it too can be another cash cow that only he takes out to pasture.

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05-16-2013, 09:36 PM
  #530
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhlyerPhanatic View Post
Might as well prep yourself now..because they will host again within the next 10 years unless someone else builds a similar rink and has similar success. The Memorial Cup has become a business..it's not just a tournament for Junior Hockey anymore. If London has the strongest bid 9 years from now..they'll win the hosting rights then too.
The problem is that being given Memorial Cups breeds excitement (how many season tickets tied to Memorial Cup tickets) which make it an attractive place to play, bringing better players, and the cycle perpetuates itself.

If there is that much emphasis on predicting next year's team, that's a brutal flaw. I don't think London is going to be terrible next year, but this business of them returning 22 plus players? I'm not so sure about that...in fact I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised if they lost a handful of key players of this year's team for next season.

If the sole goal is money (rather than growing the league in all the centres) and it appears it is, then just do away with the bid process. Hold the tournament in Ottawa every single year, and allow the two OHL finalists to earn their entry. It's the biggest facility, the biggest OHL city (and other than Calgary the largest CHL city), easy airport access and a great national calibre city. Everybody would know where it is and prepare for it and away we go. Kind of like a US Bowl game.

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05-16-2013, 09:40 PM
  #531
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Originally Posted by Knights77 View Post
Add in some of the intangibles such as Eastern conference team etc.
OMG, WTF. Here we go again. This means absolutely jack @*#& in the OHL unless they weight the schedules based on conference.

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05-16-2013, 10:27 PM
  #532
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Neutral sites wont have the same financial success IMO. You need those season tickets
to scoop up the majority of seats.
Would 4000 Spits, 6500 Knights, 2500 erie or 5000+ Ktown fans all head up to Ottawa?

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05-16-2013, 10:32 PM
  #533
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Originally Posted by Sidekick View Post
I'm surprised if London is such a hotbed for hockey, how come the AHL doesn't consider expansion into the market - Toronto, Hamilton just down the road. Grand Rapids the other way.

What if London finally gets caught for their blatant recruiting violations?
There was talk of an AHL team. The parent club wanted it in its own backyard. Since Branch doesn't control the AHL/NHL we didnt get any favours lol

Any examples of these blatant recruiting violations? Please share.
If ya got some be sure to send them into the league and they will be investigated.

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05-17-2013, 05:42 AM
  #534
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Originally Posted by aresknights View Post
Neutral sites wont have the same financial success IMO. You need those season tickets
to scoop up the majority of seats.
Would 4000 Spits, 6500 Knights, 2500 erie or 5000+ Ktown fans all head up to Ottawa?
I disagree. I don't see why people wouldn't travel to see their team (especially the Kingston example). I think you actually get people buying tickets and planning in advance because of the hope that their team will be there. I'm driving 5 hours each way for several Memorial Cup games this year to see your team as it turns out...

If Ottawa is too far away, then have it in Toronto every year. It seems to work for the Vanier Cup. I think you could sell out the semi-final/final certainly (with a lot more tickets than even London can sell) and probably the other weekend games in TO if people knew it was going to be an event there every year... You would also make sure that the two teams that "deserved" to be there would be there, in the Robertson Cup finalists and fans of those teams would have at least three weeks to make their arrangments to go to the event (which in the GTA is usually plenty of time to get accommodations etc.).

This bid process has become too offputting, especially since the home team gets in. They always find some reason the Colts won't get it (maybe the real reason is a long ago 18 year old Captain who wouldn't shake Branch's hand). When we had the state of the art rink it was hotels, when we had the hotels it was the rink, now that we have both they're trying to tell us it's the team (that's going to have the top prospect in next year's draft). :s


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05-17-2013, 06:26 AM
  #535
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sidekick View Post
I'm surprised if London is such a hotbed for hockey, how come the AHL doesn't consider expansion into the market - Toronto, Hamilton just down the road. Grand Rapids the other way.

What if London finally gets caught for their blatant recruiting violations?
Cuz the AHL is boring and you don't think people have thought of this. This is a CHL town and always will be.

What are those violations ?

The league hired a guy in 08 and warned teams they wanted recruiting cleaned up.

Every player almost on London's roster is drafted....save for Stolarz and Hughes maybe.

Free agents.

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05-17-2013, 07:04 AM
  #536
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Originally Posted by aresknights View Post
Neutral sites wont have the same financial success IMO. You need those season tickets
to scoop up the majority of seats.
Would 4000 Spits, 6500 Knights, 2500 erie or 5000+ Ktown fans all head up to Ottawa?
How successfull was the attendance in Mississauga? Their season ticket holder base isn't very large.

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05-17-2013, 07:11 AM
  #537
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Originally Posted by CharlieGirl View Post
I'd love to know the reasoning for bidding in 2008. No team in any league has hosted twice in a row since 1986 (and only two teams in history have hosted back-to-back). Back then, it was a small tournament that didn't attract the big money and focus.
Any number of reasons. To keep their own commitee on their toes, because they figured eventually they would have the opportunity again. Could have been some new people in the marketing department that they wanted to get experience, could have been to keep that rapport with the selection commitee, or it could have been to ensure there were some decent bids coming in from the other teams.

But no . .it's London, it had to be arrogance

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05-17-2013, 07:36 AM
  #538
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
If the sole goal is money (rather than growing the league in all the centres) and it appears it is, then just do away with the bid process. Hold the tournament in Ottawa every single year, and allow the two OHL finalists to earn their entry. It's the biggest facility, the biggest OHL city (and other than Calgary the largest CHL city), easy airport access and a great national calibre city. Everybody would know where it is and prepare for it and away we go. Kind of like a US Bowl game.
An alternative would be to rotate the tournament between the three NHL arenas within the OHL territory -- Ottawa, Toronto and Detroit. That would give a balance between eastern, central and western teams in the league.

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05-17-2013, 08:19 AM
  #539
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
I disagree. I don't see why people wouldn't travel to see their team (especially the Kingston example). I think you actually get people buying tickets and planning in advance because of the hope that their team will be there. I'm driving 5 hours each way for several Memorial Cup games this year to see your team as it turns out...

If Ottawa is too far away, then have it in Toronto every year. It seems to work for the Vanier Cup. I think you could sell out the semi-final/final certainly (with a lot more tickets than even London can sell) and probably the other weekend games in TO if people knew it was going to be an event there every year... You would also make sure that the two teams that "deserved" to be there would be there, in the Robertson Cup finalists and fans of those teams would have at least three weeks to make their arrangments to go to the event (which in the GTA is usually plenty of time to get accommodations etc.).

This bid process has become too offputting, especially since the home team gets in. They always find some reason the Colts won't get it (maybe the real reason is a long ago 18 year old Captain who wouldn't shake Branch's hand). When we had the state of the art rink it was hotels, when we had the hotels it was the rink, now that we have both they're trying to tell us it's the team (that's going to have the top prospect in next year's draft). :s
Youd make the trip as would other big hockey fans. I just cant see the same #s of garaunteed tickets sold when instead of a 700 dolllar package youd be forking over that, plus hotel expenses, travel and 3 meals a day. That would increase the cost 4 fold to attend the weeks events. It would be a tough sell for many. I could see people going for a game or two thou. I dont think youd get the same interest in a nuetral site but thats just me. Ive been wrong before.

One thing the neutral would do is make it a less intimidating "road" crowd for 3 teams and each team would probably get a better share of tics without season holders scooping em all up

I dont have an intimate knowledge of Barries bids and why theyve fallen short. Its gotta be frustrating for Colts fans, no doubt. The reasons youve given seem ever changing but IMO realistic. In the sense that every 3rd year they bid and things do change and sometimes quickly. One could say theyre given a different excuse every time but the other side is that come up short in different criteria each bid. They just gotta find a way to put it all together and give the league no choice. They are a successful franchise and hopefully get rewarded at some point.

Just a question here but in the examples you gave did one of the other bids surpass them in the areas youve said they were told they fell short on? ANd equalled them in other areas? Not trying to be an ass, but maybe theyve never put the best bid forward, I dont know. The system is wha tit is for better or worse, so ya gotta learn how to get it done with that format.

I doubt its retribution for a non hand shake years ago, but ya never know

Have a great week in Toonville! And hopefully your treated to some great hockey. A NHL scouts dream with all those high end draft eligibles battling it out in a championship as opposed to an allstar game. Should be great.

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05-17-2013, 08:55 AM
  #540
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Originally Posted by krazy kanuck View Post
I disagree. I don't see why people wouldn't travel to see their team (especially the Kingston example). I think you actually get people buying tickets and planning in advance because of the hope that their team will be there. I'm driving 5 hours each way for several Memorial Cup games this year to see your team as it turns out...

If Ottawa is too far away, then have it in Toronto every year. It seems to work for the Vanier Cup. I think you could sell out the semi-final/final certainly (with a lot more tickets than even London can sell) and probably the other weekend games in TO if people knew it was going to be an event there every year... You would also make sure that the two teams that "deserved" to be there would be there, in the Robertson Cup finalists and fans of those teams would have at least three weeks to make their arrangments to go to the event (which in the GTA is usually plenty of time to get accommodations etc.).

This bid process has become too offputting, especially since the home team gets in. They always find some reason the Colts won't get it (maybe the real reason is a long ago 18 year old Captain who wouldn't shake Branch's hand). When we had the state of the art rink it was hotels, when we had the hotels it was the rink, now that we have both they're trying to tell us it's the team (that's going to have the top prospect in next year's draft). :s
If you take a look at the rosters objectively, there is little doubt that London is going to have the highest talent returning. Almost 20 current players. The Colts have a good core returning, but no one to replace O'Connor, Niederberger, Camara, Schiefele etc.

London probably looses Broadhurst and Griffith, but with guys like the Ruperts, Tierney and Elie playing depth roles and ready to move forward, they just are way to deep.

With Saskatoon struggling like they did, there is no doubt that quality of team is the most important factor right now, the committee doesn't want another situation like this. Its unfortunate for Barrie fans, but if they had the better returning core, they would have gotten the hosting gig.

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05-17-2013, 09:43 AM
  #541
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Originally Posted by Tigers1992 View Post
If you take a look at the rosters objectively, there is little doubt that London is going to have the highest talent returning. Almost 20 current players. The Colts have a good core returning, but no one to replace O'Connor, Niederberger, Camara, Schiefele etc.

London probably looses Broadhurst and Griffith, but with guys like the Ruperts, Tierney and Elie playing depth roles and ready to move forward, they just are way to deep.

With Saskatoon struggling like they did, there is no doubt that quality of team is the most important factor right now, the committee doesn't want another situation like this. Its unfortunate for Barrie fans, but if they had the better returning core, they would have gotten the hosting gig.
Why does everybody think the host has to be strong? Isn't the Memorial Cup all about financial guarantees and financial success? There wasn't outrage when Rimouski and Brandon were hosts. In Saskatoon they already have 9000 seats sold for every game that's as much as London will get every game. People act like the host should win every Memorial Cup. Where was the outrage when Rimouski didn't make the semis? Where was the outrage with Brandon getting embarrassed on their home ice twice. There's no way to guarantee success of a host at the Memorial Cup.

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05-17-2013, 09:50 AM
  #542
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Why does everybody think the host has to be strong? Isn't the Memorial Cup all about financial guarantees and financial success? There wasn't outrage when Rimouski and Brandon were hosts.
There was outrage, just not in Ontario. Im sure if you did calling around, youll find alot of QMJHL personal that wheren't happy about it. Just like
Shawinigan. Last year it probably should have gone to Saint John, but the committee went with the smaller host city. If they think a smaller town can host, they let them host, even if there is 4,500 seats.

The Host teams (for the most part) have always very competitive. You would always have the odd year where a team would struggle, but having a 'memorial cup' caliber team has always been part of the process (and a very important part).

Some years, depending on who bids, you have to take the best one of some not great choices. In a perfect world, London wouldn't have won this year, but looking at the rosters, they are the best bet.

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05-17-2013, 09:55 AM
  #543
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There was outrage, just not in Ontario. Im sure if you did calling around, youll find alot of QMJHL personal that wheren't happy about it. Just like
Shawinigan. Last year it probably should have gone to Saint John, but the committee went with the smaller host city. If they think a smaller town can host, they let them host, even if there is 4,500 seats.

The Host teams (for the most part) have always very competitive. You would always have the odd year where a team would struggle, but having a 'memorial cup' caliber team has always been part of the process (and a very important part).

Some years, depending on who bids, you have to take the best one of some not great choices. In a perfect world, London wouldn't have won this year, but looking at the rosters, they are the best bet.
The better win the Memorial Cup next year then or there will be large outrage.

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05-17-2013, 09:59 AM
  #544
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The better win the Memorial Cup next year then or there will be large outrage.
It depends on who will be bidding. If there are two similar teams with the same roster, then it will be different. Well have to see who applies and what they have coming back.

I haven't talked to anyone in the CHL or NHL who is independent that think London didn't have the much stronger roster heading into 2014.

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05-17-2013, 02:09 PM
  #545
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The better win the Memorial Cup next year then or there will be large outrage.
If the Knights are fortunate enough to win next year, itll just bring out the "well they got it at home" crowd. The boo birds and haters will be out in full force regardless of how it turns out. We all know that.

But much sweeter for any OHL team if they are fortunate enough to get over on the Knights home ice

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05-17-2013, 03:02 PM
  #546
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It would be a tough sell for many. I could see people going for a game or two thou. I dont think youd get the same interest in a nuetral site but thats just me. Ive been wrong before.
Yes, but when you have a lot more people to draw from and a larger rink, you're going to sell the tickets. Might not be that people go for the full 10 days (I'm not going for the full 10 days either), but you get more people going to one or two games with more tickets sold overall. Also, more people getting exposure to the game.

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I dont have an intimate knowledge of Barries bids and why theyve fallen short. Its gotta be frustrating for Colts fans, no doubt. The reasons youve given seem ever changing but IMO realistic. In the sense that every 3rd year they bid and things do change and sometimes quickly. One could say theyre given a different excuse every time but the other side is that come up short in different criteria each bid. They just gotta find a way to put it all together and give the league no choice. They are a successful franchise and hopefully get rewarded at some point.
What little I know, which is only what I've read, is that the bids have generally been strong but always the bridesmaid sort of thing. The rink would have been amongst the best in the league until 2002. In 1999 I think the hotel thing was overexagerated. Sure, there were only a few in Barrie but after seeing some of the other places this has gone, the proximity to Toronto should have sufficed. The team was strong, first in the conference and conference finals in the playoffs (better than the 67s on both counts). In 2002 the hotels would have been there too, with several additional built in those few years along the 400 corridor. Again, the team was at top of the East in the regular season, and lost in the final to Erie. That's the time we probably got the biggest shaft. The other years you could point to the team projecting as either mediocre or in one case bad. This is a team that's only missed the playoffs once though which leads me to...

I think that if all teams meet the minimum requirements you should be giving the team that hasn't had it yet a shot. Imagine if other leagues did this sort of thing. The NHL All-Star game would never get to Columbus and the Winter Classic would always be in Montreal. The Super Bowl would always be in Pasedena (and imagine if the Raiders were always guaranteed a spot). People wouldn't stand for it.

The Colts may not project to be the best team next season, but they won't be an embarrassment. Everything else meets the minimums.

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05-17-2013, 03:14 PM
  #547
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Originally Posted by Tigers1992 View Post
If you take a look at the rosters objectively, there is little doubt that London is going to have the highest talent returning. Almost 20 current players. The Colts have a good core returning, but no one to replace O'Connor, Niederberger, Camara, Schiefele etc.

London probably looses Broadhurst and Griffith, but with guys like the Ruperts, Tierney and Elie playing depth roles and ready to move forward, they just are way to deep.
You know I always appreciate your opinion, and I submit that it appears that the Knights will have the best team. I'm just suggesting that the most important emphasis on that is ridiculous. Will they be the best team if they lose Domi, Horvat, Griffith, Broadhurst, Matta, Harrington and their overagers? Is it likely? Of course not, but remember we once had a conversation about how Brodie (20), Burmistrov (18), Clifford (19) etal were likely returnees.

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With Saskatoon struggling like they did, there is no doubt that quality of team is the most important factor right now, the committee doesn't want another situation like this.
Saskatoon was a pretty good team this season. I watched them a few times live. They ran into a hot goalie in the playoffs. That can happen to anybody. They did have a 94 point season (albeit in a 72 game schedule). It's not like they were terrible and missed the playoffs. I don't see why this "situation" has to be avoided. Will that represent in the Memorial Cup? Well, I don't know because Portland is all that and a bag of chips and it looks like Halifax is too. I would be surprised if either of those teams loses a game to London or Saskatoon.

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Its unfortunate for Barrie fans, but if they had the better returning core, they would have gotten the hosting gig.
Do you know this as you usually do, or is this speculation? Just looking for clarity, because I do find it hard to believe. As mentioned above, I think that the team Barrie is returning, along with what they will likely acquire in the import draft/trades, will be just fine. I expect they'll compete for the East again next year (who's better?).

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05-17-2013, 03:20 PM
  #548
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Saskatoon ran into a hot goalie? They scored what, four goals all series? A really good team would be able to get around that obstacle, especially against the #7 seed.

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05-17-2013, 03:34 PM
  #549
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KK, I get the minimum requirement arguement but its not the way it's set up. Best bid wins. I would not be opposed to meeting minimums and then rotating it/or giving to the longest without, as the tie breaker. They just gotta set the minimums.
On the other hand thou we may not get some of little extras this tourney always provides for the league and community in general as all clubs would just come in at the minimum since extras wouldn't matter. Some of the legacy stuff is important and creative bid committees really can come up with some good ones. It's almost a no win really, regardless the set up.
The NFL, NCAA, don't rotate venues thru the league. Only a handful get the opportunity. But I see ur point

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05-17-2013, 03:46 PM
  #550
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Saskatoon ran into a hot goalie? They scored what, four goals all series? A really good team would be able to get around that obstacle, especially against the #7 seed.
Yep, they did. Were last year's St. Louis Blues a bad team because they scored 6 goals in the process of being swept by the 8th seed (and eventual Stanley Cup Champion) Los Angeles Kings?

Just out of curiosity, how many Medicine Hat games did you watch this season?

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