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Ottawa Senators - San Jose Sharks

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Old
01-05-2013, 12:58 PM
  #26
TheJuxtaposer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakob Silfverberg View Post
As much as I like Vlasic, I'd still take the 35 goal scorer with great speed, power, defensive ability and friendly contract over him.
You can confirm with any Sharks fan around here, I'm a GIANT Milan fan. He's still one of my favorite players in the league and I'd LOVE to have him back on the Sharks. He'd be a perfect fit for the Sharks with his elite speed, size, an defensive play.

BUT. I won't give up Vlasic for him.

Furthermore, Couture is better than Michalek at this point, and I'm low on Couture. He just is, as much as I adore Milan.

Lastly, you haven't at all considered the SALARY CAP. Look how much cap you're adding to the Sharks. We can't add cap.

I'd be open to something around Couture and Spezza, assuming we could find a way to make it work cap-wise, or some way of getting Milan back to SJ. But Vlasic goes absolutely nowhere.

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01-05-2013, 01:25 PM
  #27
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Would you trade Couture for Michalek +

Plus being

Puempel or Noesen or Stone?

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Old
01-05-2013, 01:44 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post


Couture
Vlasic



Spezza
Michalek
Methot


There would be a lynch mob in front of Wilson's house if this trade went through. Absolutely pathetic for the Sharks.

As great as Milan was here, I wouldn't trade Vlasic or Couture for him. Couture is a back-to-back 30+ goal scorer, excellent defensively and tremendous in the circle. Vlasic was just voted top-15 shutdown defenseman here at HF. And both of them have very affordable contracts and young, which makes them two of them most untouchable players on the team.

Spezza is best player in the deal, but he puts us over the cap and he wouldn't replace Thornton at 1C. When Thornton retires, Couture will take his place. Michalek only broke 30 goals once. Players like Methot can be found in free agency.

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Old
01-05-2013, 02:05 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheJuxtaposer View Post
You can confirm with any Sharks fan around here, I'm a GIANT Milan fan. He's still one of my favorite players in the league and I'd LOVE to have him back on the Sharks. He'd be a perfect fit for the Sharks with his elite speed, size, an defensive play.

BUT. I won't give up Vlasic for him.

Furthermore, Couture is better than Michalek at this point, and I'm low on Couture. He just is, as much as I adore Milan.

Lastly, you haven't at all considered the SALARY CAP. Look how much cap you're adding to the Sharks. We can't add cap.

I'd be open to something around Couture and Spezza, assuming we could find a way to make it work cap-wise, or some way of getting Milan back to SJ. But Vlasic goes absolutely nowhere.
Look, I'm in a similar position. I don't like Methot and I love Vlasic.

But, Vlasic - Burns/Boyle is not that much better than Methot - Burns/Boyle.

Of course having Vlasic is better, but the value you're giving him is insane. Having Vlasic over Methot paired with Boyle and Burns will not garner your team like 10 more wins a season. The difference is not THAT big.

In fact I think Methot is a better complement to both Boyle and Burns (but not a better player).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DuckEatinShark View Post


There would be a lynch mob in front of Wilson's house if this trade went through. Absolutely pathetic for the Sharks.

As great as Milan was here, I wouldn't trade Vlasic or Couture for him. Couture is a back-to-back 30+ goal scorer, excellent defensively and tremendous in the circle. Vlasic was just voted top-15 shutdown defenseman here at HF. And both of them have very affordable contracts and young, which makes them two of them most untouchable players on the team.

Spezza is best player in the deal, but he puts us over the cap and he wouldn't replace Thornton at 1C. When Thornton retires, Couture will take his place. Michalek only broke 30 goals once. Players like Methot can be found in free agency.
Couture is not ''tremendous in the circle''. He's 51%.

Couture is very good defensively but not Selke caliber or anything. Thornton is better defensively at this point than Couture, no doubt.



So you think Spezza is worse than Thornton (I disagree) and can't replace Thornton is the #1, but you say that Couture can do that. But you also say that Couture is worse than Spezza. I'm confused.


Anyway, you're underrating Spezza and overrating Couture. Spezza outscored Thornton with much worse linemates.

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Old
01-05-2013, 04:11 PM
  #30
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I'd do this as an Ottawa fan.

Out
Spezza (29) 2 years left @ 7 cap hit
Michalek (27) 1 year left @ 4.333 cap hit
Methot (27) 2 years left @ 3 cap hit

In
Couture (23)
Vlasic (25) 5 years left @ 4.25 cap hit

The two assets coming from San Jose are incredibly valuable: 5 years of a 25-year old D-man who is a legit #2, and Couture who is currently an elite 2nd line C and could become a 1st line C as he matures.

Spezza is the best player in the deal, but he's also the oldest and ,like Michalek, has a history of injury.

As long as Couture is willing to stay for the long haul, this is a no-brainer for me.

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Old
01-05-2013, 04:15 PM
  #31
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According to HR:

Vlasic = 34.4 point shares in 6 seasons
Michalek = 39.7 point shares in 7 seasons

Vlasic is is younger and signed for 5 years, Michalek is a UFA after next season. Vlasic's value dwarfs Michalek's.

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Old
01-05-2013, 04:16 PM
  #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Roooney View Post
Hell no.
..the Sharks would say.

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01-05-2013, 04:17 PM
  #33
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You can say you don't want to do this deal, but saying it's value isn't close is just wrong. I wouldn't do for Sens cause I'm tentative trading Spezza, but if the trade was going down, I'd prob want a bit more from sharks to be able to accept it personally

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Old
01-05-2013, 04:21 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by inthewings View Post
I'd do this as an Ottawa fan.

Out
Spezza (29) 2 years left @ 7 cap hit
Michalek (27) 1 year left @ 4.333 cap hit
Methot (27) 2 years left @ 3 cap hit

In
Couture (23)
Vlasic (25) 5 years left @ 4.25 cap hit

The two assets coming from San Jose are incredibly valuable: 5 years of a 25-year old D-man who is a legit #2, and Couture who is currently an elite 2nd line C and could become a 1st line C as he matures.

Spezza is the best player in the deal, but he's also the oldest and ,like Michalek, has a history of injury.

As long as Couture is willing to stay for the long haul, this is a no-brainer for me.
This is how I see it.

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Old
01-05-2013, 04:24 PM
  #35
TheJuxtaposer
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Look, I'm in a similar position. I don't like Methot and I love Vlasic.

But, Vlasic - Burns/Boyle is not that much better than Methot - Burns/Boyle.

Of course having Vlasic is better, but the value you're giving him is insane. Having Vlasic over Methot paired with Boyle and Burns will not garner your team like 10 more wins a season. The difference is not THAT big.

In fact I think Methot is a better complement to both Boyle and Burns (but not a better player).
Vlasic is literally the perfect compliment to Burns, so I have no clue where you're getting this Methot business from...

Vlasic the Sharks best defensive defenseman, only top-4 lefty, and signed to an excellent extension.

You severely undervalue him. I know people on HF are finally figuring out who Vlasic is (after 6 years of elite shutdown hockey), but only those who watch him night-in, night-out understand exactly how good and how important he is to this team. The Sharks org is just as high on him as we fans are. There's a reason they traded Ehrhoff over him three years ago.

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Old
01-05-2013, 04:32 PM
  #36
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How are people saying the value is fair. The sens get burned bad.
Spezza <Couture
MM<>Vlasic( I'd take MM over him anyday in terms of what the sens need)
Then we just throw methot in...
Horrible trade

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Old
01-05-2013, 04:35 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMadahey View Post
How are people saying the value is fair. The sens get burned bad.
Spezza <Couture
MM<>Vlasic( I'd take MM over him anyday in terms of what the sens need)
Then we just throw methot in...
Horrible trade
Contracts are a thing. Vlasic has a great one for 5 more years. Michalek is a UFA after next season. Michalek is also older and more injury-prone.

To be honest, I don't think Methot carries much value in a deal like this.

Also, If Coutiure > Spezza and Michalek = Vlasic, doesn't Ottawa win?

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Old
01-05-2013, 04:38 PM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMadahey View Post
How are people saying the value is fair.
OP justifies it due to contract ending and age.

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Old
01-05-2013, 05:12 PM
  #39
Qward
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OMadahey View Post
How are people saying the value is fair. The sens get burned bad.
Spezza <Couture
MM<>Vlasic( I'd take MM over him anyday in terms of what the sens need)
Then we just throw methot in...
Horrible trade
Remember the alligator always eats the greater one.
2>1

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Old
01-05-2013, 05:21 PM
  #40
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Sharks aren't going to trade their 23 year old all star center and their 25 year old defender who is the best shutdown d on their roster. There's a reason Marleau and Pavelski play wing now and there's a reason why Vlasic is still on the first pairing even though they have a VERY solid defence.

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Old
01-05-2013, 05:43 PM
  #41
HavlatMach9
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Originally Posted by Awesomeaaron16 View Post
Sharks aren't going to trade their 23 year old all star center and their 25 year old defender who is the best shutdown d on their roster. There's a reason Marleau and Pavelski play wing now and there's a reason why Vlasic is still on the first pairing even though they have a VERY solid defence.
Ottawa isn't trading an elite perennial all-star 1st line center and Michalek who is the best goal scorer on our roster. Spezza has a decade left in him and is better to re-sign him and Michalek. San Jose won't take Spezza b/c he'd be hard to fit cap wise and he'll be a UFA.

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Old
01-05-2013, 09:11 PM
  #42
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Without Vlasic the Sharks would have to commit completely to run-n-gun offense. We'd get killed trying to do that. Vlasic is off the table. Couture? Eh open to trading him for the right price.

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Old
01-05-2013, 09:17 PM
  #43
Qward
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mafoofoo View Post
Without Vlasic the Sharks would have to commit completely to run-n-gun offense. We'd get killed trying to do that. Vlasic is off the table. Couture? Eh open to trading him for the right price.
What would the right price be?

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Old
01-05-2013, 09:19 PM
  #44
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I like Spezza too much to agree. Pass from this fan.

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Old
01-06-2013, 02:10 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MandyAlwaysKnows View Post
Absolutely hilarious how the responses are at both ends of the spectrum.

''It's horrible for Ottawa''
''It's horrible for San Jose''
Dude, you are posting on the HFBoards Trade boards. It seems like 90+% of all threads on these boards end up like this.

You could probably clone Jason Spezza, have the Spezza clone sign with the Sharks as a free agent, and then post the following trade on these boards:
San Jose gets: Jason Spezza
Ottawa gets: Jason Spezza

... and you'd STILL get 90% of the posters arguing that their guy is better:
"Are you kidding me? Spezza is over the hill, and Spezza is our #1 center. Why would we trade our #1 center?"
"Pass from this Sharks fan. I really like Spezza, so I know where Sens fans are coming from, but I just can't bring myself to part with a guy like Spezza".
"LOL at this troll proposal. Spezza's an All Star, future captain of the Sens, one of the best producing centers in the game. Why would we deal him for Spezza, who's until last year missed games regularly with injury? We need someone who is dependable like Spezza, not some walking bandaid like Spezza".

It's the nature of the beast on the Trade board.

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Old
01-07-2013, 02:21 PM
  #46
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No. Please, no. The Sharks can't trade Couture and Vlasic; they're 2 of the future cornerstones for the franchise...

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Old
01-07-2013, 02:26 PM
  #47
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Spezza isn't going anywhere. End of story.

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