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Cherry: CHL should stop letting Americans and Europeans to play in CHL (merged)

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Old
01-05-2013, 11:47 AM
  #251
DaveG
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Quote:
Originally Posted by limite View Post
Everyone is missing the point of Cherry's rant.

Cherry isn't really whining about Americans/Europeans taking spots of Canadian players, who would be the marginal players anyway. He is upset that foreign players presumably develop better in the CHL, and then turn around and use the improved development to defeat Canada in international play. He would like the rest of the world to to stay "barefoot and pregnant" hockey wise so that Canada can always win. It would be like barring foreign engineering students from US universities so that they can't go back home and develop industries that would compete with the US economically.
He's still wrong though. Look at the US players, Campbell from 2010 was still an NTDP player when he played like he did. Gibson was an NTDP product who'd be dominating at Michigan if he didn't go back on his commitment, and likely still be just as good. Many of these top players for Russia and Sweden likewise play far more in their respective leagues then in the CHL leagues, same with the Finns. The Czechs would actually be the hardest hit team, and they've only medaled once in the past decade back in 2005 with a bronze.

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Old
01-05-2013, 11:51 AM
  #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Insomniac99 View Post
The US deals with players in the NBA and MLB who go back home and do well in the Olympics/International play. Do we complain? Not in the least.
Not just those sports...many track and field stars from various countries (especially the islands...Jamaica, Trinidad, Bahamas) go to or went to US colleges. Bid deal...good for them

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01-05-2013, 11:51 AM
  #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
Fine get all your Canadian players out of the NCAA. And I am talking baseball, hockey, basketball, football and any other sport there are Canadians in OUR colleges. You want to play this game? See how many Canadians make the NFL, NBA or MLB nevermind going to some of our best colleges for an education.

Imagine if some Yank made this comment and not old senile Canadian Don Cherry? You guys would be losing your collective minds on the US.

What happened to Canadians? You think you're entitled to everything hockey these days.
Made a post very similar to this in a thread on the main board. Christine Sinclair, Andrew Wiggins, hell even older examples like Paul Kariya, there have been plenty of talented Canadian youth who pursued and obtained training in the US based on their skill level.

For Cherry to a take his stance, he really needs to realize that its a two way street and just as many Canadians (if not more) benefit from heading south.

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01-05-2013, 11:51 AM
  #254
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Originally Posted by The Price is Right View Post
Yes I do but if they would have the chance to play in the CHL, I am pretty sure most would play in the CHL to get better development and have a higher chance to succeed to pro levels.
I'm sure all those silly Canadian kids that came to the states on a full scholarship are rife with regret after they realize how long the odds are to making the NHL, and they have a college degree to fall back on.

By the way, as an American, I would love it if the CHL was no longer an option for American kids. It would have a major impact on USA Hockey in just about every way...High Schools, Prep Schools, Junior Hockey, college hockey, etc would all see improvement in some way. But it's a silly idea though, and it's an especially myopic thought process as a means to improve Canadian hockey. Having the CHL as the undisputed champion of Junior Hockey worldwide is good for Canada, and that only happens when you open up the boarders. Having worse Canadian kids fill the roster spots for the Americans and Europeans would dilute the talent in the CHL...how is that good?

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01-05-2013, 11:58 AM
  #255
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I'm not overly impressed with the development and quality of the players playing in the CHL, actually I feel one of the strengths of the swedish team is that the players play SEL and SEL2 thus playing against men. The players in the swedish squad that impressed me the least were the guys playing the CHL, Nick Sörensen and Rickard Rakell(who looked to have taken a step back since last year), and USHL, Rasmus Bengtsson(who was surpassed on the swedish depth chart by pretty much every other d man on the team, his development has come to a complete halt for the last year or so).
Viktor Rask who also plays the CHL looked ok but didn't look like he's developed much for the last year either.

So I think that sweden might actually benefit from a non-foreign CHL.

And from a canadian point of view I think what you need to worry about isn't foreign players in the league but the quality of the programs and start questioning how good the CHL actually is for development, especially for the top players, I think a lot of canadian players would benfit from getting a chance to play against men at the age of 17-19 but as of now the CHL holds too much clot, so it's pretty much either CHL or NHL which is to big a step for some. At least imho.

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01-05-2013, 11:59 AM
  #256
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There are USA based teams in the
CHL and Canadian based teams in the AHL..

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01-05-2013, 12:02 PM
  #257
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Cherry is a national icon, but he's also an idiot and a xenophobe. If it was up to Cherry, there would be no Europeans in any hockey league, CHL or NHL. His expert hockey analysis has lead to comments like "Ryan Murphy should go 1st overall in the 2011 draft," and "Jordan Staal > Evgeni Malkin." I don't put much stake in his opinions.

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01-05-2013, 12:03 PM
  #258
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If anyone thinks that there are very many Canadian junior teams that turn a profit can give their head a shake.A team might bring in $2-3 million a year,It costs more than that to run a team.The teams are just hobbies for rich guys looking for a tax write off,thus being supported by the Canadian tax payer.An OHL player gets about $50-100 a week as an allowance and the team pays a local family around $200 a week for room and board.The kid is on his own as far as transportation to practices are concerned,but most families are happy to drive them out of the goodness of their heart.

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01-05-2013, 12:04 PM
  #259
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I thought the whole point of the CHL is to develop players for the NHL. Who cares about these tournaments really. What I mean is, international tournaments are a lot of fun, but we aren't developing players for the Olympics and world juniors. We're developing them so we have the best possible talent to watch in the NHL. And Europeans and Americans make up the NHL just as much as Canadians. This is coming from a Canadian.

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01-05-2013, 12:05 PM
  #260
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I am Canadian View Post
There are USA based teams in the
CHL and Canadian based teams in the AHL..
AHL doesn't count,pro league,paid for by the NHL.

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01-05-2013, 12:13 PM
  #261
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Price is Right View Post
Considering a lot of players from USA, Russia, Sweden etc... play in the CHL and then end up being better than Canada is horrible. CHL should stop letting all the foreigners come and play here in Canada. It is called the Canadian Hockey League for a reason? It should just be for Canadians. They are developing opponent players which is crazy and then they take our strategies and beat us..

I got nothing against Americans and Europeans. It is just my opinion that Swedes should play in the SEL, Russians in KHL, Finnish in SM-Liga, Americans in NCAA or USHL and Canadians in CHL.

Swedes would get coached and trained by Swedish personnel and Russians and all the countries would get coached and trained by people from their country.
someone is feeling threatened. How long has it been this way? give me a break.

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01-05-2013, 12:16 PM
  #262
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NCAA>CHL. Yeah, I said it.

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01-05-2013, 12:17 PM
  #263
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Price is Right View Post
Considering a lot of players from USA, Russia, Sweden etc... play in the CHL and then end up being better than Canada is horrible. CHL should stop letting all the foreigners come and play here in Canada. It is called the Canadian Hockey League for a reason? It should just be for Canadians. They are developing opponent players which is crazy and then they take our strategies and beat us..

I got nothing against Americans and Europeans. It is just my opinion that Swedes should play in the SEL, Russians in KHL, Finnish in SM-Liga, Americans in NCAA or USHL and Canadians in CHL.

Swedes would get coached and trained by Swedish personnel and Russians and all the countries would get coached and trained by people from their country.
I'm interested in the logistics here. Bruins prospect Max Sauve was born in France while his father played hockey there professionally. According to your logic, he should have been shipped back to France to play junior hockey. And a guy like Anze Kopitar should have stayed home and developed his skills in Slovenia.

Where do you draw the line? Place of birth? Parents' place of birth? Where he grew up? Is Sauve OK because he came to Canada at 2? What if he'd been 5, or 12? Does that make him a foreigner, or a good Canadian boy?

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01-05-2013, 12:17 PM
  #264
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Hah, this fellow belongs in the Russian Duma. This kind of rhetorics would perfectly fit there.

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01-05-2013, 12:24 PM
  #265
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The imports also make ALL the Canadian players better. Iron sharpens iron. If you're playing with/against Yakupov instead of the essentially Junior B player that he replaced, everyone plays harder, and learns to play better - Yakupov included.

The guys who's development are truly suffering are in the weakened leagues where these guys are being cherry-picked from.

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01-05-2013, 12:25 PM
  #266
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Why is bigotry and xenophobia acceptable in hockey? I'll never understand it.

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01-05-2013, 12:25 PM
  #267
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Europeans and Americans coming into the CHL also helps the Canadian players in their development. When you're consistently playing with talented players it helps you enhance your own skill set as well.

And I wonder how many Canadians have been noticed by NHL scouts who went to an OHL game to watch Yakupov or Galchenyuk play. Not to mention how many butts were put in the seats because of those 2 as well.

It's a 2 way street. I'm guessing guys like Don Cherry don't really care about the poor kid from Switzerland who's spot was taken and development stalled due to millionaire Canadian Rick Nash taking his spot in September. (Just as a general example)

I personally like that Europeans and Americans can come over and play in the CHL. Living in Manitoba right now without the Jets is pretty brutal and I can't imagine watching the Wheat Kings play without Alessio Bertaggia. It's awesome that I've had the opportunity to watch so many great imports and future NHL stars over the years for $15 a seat.

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01-05-2013, 12:25 PM
  #268
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobDobolina View Post
They should change the name of Coaches Corner to something more appropriate too.
Halfwitted Bigots' Pulpit?


Last edited by tombombadil: 01-05-2013 at 12:29 PM. Reason: insensitive
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01-05-2013, 12:26 PM
  #269
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Well Canada I thank you guys for this gold medal we just won... Man if it weren't for Canada we would have been relegated...

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01-05-2013, 12:27 PM
  #270
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Europeans shouldn't be allowed to come over here at all. I have disagreed with that from day one. Americans that's a different story. We have some American cities in the CHL and the odd Canadian goes and plays in the NCAA with the most recent star being Jonathan Toews. There is a mutual swap between Canada and USA and I am fine with that. As for the Europeans, I don't blame them for coming over here. No one in their right mind from Saskatoon leaves Canada to go over to Russia so they can have a better chance to make the NHL. However, we should take care of our own kids first.

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01-05-2013, 12:31 PM
  #271
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan View Post
NCAA>CHL. Yeah, I said it.
As far as the entertainment value? I'd say to a degree. I've watched a ton of CHL and NCAA over the last 5 years or so (since I started getting very into junior hockey) and I'd say a big time NCAA matchup is way more entertaining than a big time CHL matchup. As far as development, I can't go that far. It's so different, each league of the CHL is good at developing a certain type of talent, and the NCAA is good at developing a certain type of talent too. The "USA Hockey" style of the game is developed in the NCAA, and the USA just won gold, so who knows. For me, watching NCAA style hockey wins every day.

We'll see though, in a few years I could easily see the NCAA producing better players than the CHL. It's a different style though, always remember that.

The CHL inviting over Russians and Americans isn't why Canada lost. It's the style of play, it's the mindset, it's the work ethic, etc. etc. etc. There's a lot more reasons why Canada finished 4th that are higher up than "We let foreigners in the CHL!!!". Team USA was largely represented by NCAA talent. Half the players, including Gaudreau, Grimaldi, Trouba, McCabe (unarguably our 4 most important players not named Gibson in the last 2 games), don't play in the CHL. I think people need to stop blaming the CHL for allowing us foreigners in, and start giving the other leagues credit for producing good talent too.

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Old
01-05-2013, 12:33 PM
  #272
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Europeans shouldn't be allowed to come over here at all. I have disagreed with that from day one. Americans that's a different story. We have some American cities in the CHL and the odd Canadian goes and plays in the NCAA with the most recent star being Jonathan Toews. There is a mutual swap between Canada and USA and I am fine with that. As for the Europeans, I don't blame them for coming over here. No one in their right mind from Saskatoon leaves Canada to go over to Russia so they can have a better chance to make the NHL. However, we should take care of our own kids first.
Are you only referring to those that make the World Junior roster and go on to the NHL?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WILDhockeyfan View Post
NCAA>CHL. Yeah, I said it.
I'd think a more fair argument is NCAA in conjunction with the USNDTP vs. CHL.

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01-05-2013, 12:35 PM
  #273
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Originally Posted by Krishna View Post
What about the teams based in the US?
Move them all to Hamilton!!!


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01-05-2013, 12:37 PM
  #274
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Notwithstanding the fact that 24 of the 30 NHL teams aren't even in Canada, this is possibly the most ignorant suggestion I have ever heard.

Segregation in hockey? Really? Listen to what you're saying.

EDIT: Damn Winnipeg. I deserve all the heckling I got for my "24 out of 30" statement.


Last edited by BringTheReign: 01-07-2013 at 08:47 PM.
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01-05-2013, 12:38 PM
  #275
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lol at the Americans naming 5 players from NCAA

how long is the list from chl??

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