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Cherry: CHL should stop letting Americans and Europeans to play in CHL (merged)

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Old
01-05-2013, 05:32 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by Big Phil View Post
Europeans shouldn't be allowed to come over here at all. I have disagreed with that from day one. Americans that's a different story. We have some American cities in the CHL and the odd Canadian goes and plays in the NCAA with the most recent star being Jonathan Toews. There is a mutual swap between Canada and USA and I am fine with that. As for the Europeans, I don't blame them for coming over here. No one in their right mind from Saskatoon leaves Canada to go over to Russia so they can have a better chance to make the NHL. However, we should take care of our own kids first.
You're an embarrassment to that avatar picture you use and my childhood hero. The guy that got me to watch hockey and you are sullying him by spouting this xenophobic garbage.

You realize 30% of the NHL is made up of ex-NCAA players? That's more than the odd player here and there and way more than just Toews. There are legions of Canadians that went into an NCAA program instead of the CHL. There are several reason for that too. Some of the players were not able to make a CHL team because of several reasons, look at why Brett Hull went to Minn...the CHL thought he sucked. Hull needed a few years to develop and the CHL was unwilling at the time to give him a chance. Look what happened there.

I don't care that you are trying to make a distinction and exception for Americans. You're a closed minded bigot. Time for you to come to the 21st century. But hey, I'll go tit for tat. Throw every Canadian out of any sporting league in the US, go figure how to play baseball, basketball, football or any other sport by your bigoted selves.

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01-05-2013, 05:39 PM
  #352
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I find it hilarious that he's complaining that an import kid's father never paid taxes in Canada. What does that have to do with anything? He also didn't receive anything from Canada either. His kid on the other hand is providing entertainment for the country's residents, which in turn generates millions of tax dollars for Canada while he's playing here. Not too shabby a deal if you ask me. Any Canadian kid who would be cut for an import is simply not good enough for the CHL.There are more than enough other strong junior leagues for such guys to play in. Any import good enough to play here has his home country's development system to thank for it, not Canada. The CHL as a whole is a pointless label/association. There is no need to have three separate leagues under one heading just because they have a common year end tournament. If they really must amalgamate it, wouldn't something like the NAJHL make more sense?

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01-05-2013, 05:40 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by Ziggy66 View Post
I agree. And Don Cherry is always outlandish and with comments like these it is even harder to take him seriously
I consider him to be a disgrace to Canada. Maybe not a complete disgrace to hockey as he's been in the industry for many decades. But a disgrace to Canada for sure.

Our country really tries to embrace multiculturalism and racial neutrality, yet you always heard Cherry calling Europeans dirty and blindly praising Canadians. His blatant nationalism/cockiness alone has influenced a lot of the world to think that most of us Canadians only want hockey for ourselves and look down upon the other hockey nations.

I'm surprised someone so ignorant was allowed to have his own show for so long. He can't even speak full sentences properly. He's like the Bill O'Reilly of hockey. Just ridiculously ignorant and insensitive.

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01-05-2013, 05:43 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by BamBamCam View Post
There are legions of Canadians that went into an NCAA program instead of the CHL. There are several reason for that too .
Give a potential CHL player the option of a University education and that will change. Maybe the CHL doesn't want a competitive University League or if I remember correctly there may be laws against sports scholarships in Canada (I don't know).

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01-05-2013, 05:45 PM
  #355
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I haven't read the entire thread so I won't offer anything other than my own views.

The CHL exists to develop largely Canadian talent - it is called the Canadian Hockey League for a reason. Frankly, the only weakness I can see is the recent development of Canadian goaltending though. While recent Canadian results at the WJC have been disappointing, they also need be put into proper perspective. The recent losses can be pinned somewhat on goaltending; even the loss to Russia in the semis last year (2012) came while Canada were out-shooting them by a massive margin. Though Americans have been crowing about their own recent accomplishments and rightly so, the fact of the matter remains that they've a paltry 3 gold medals at this tournament since 1977 relative to Canada's 15, and they've only acquired a tiny 8 overall medals versus Canada's 28, so forgive me if I'm not all that impressed. Scroll down to the medal table at the bottom for verification....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ship_medalists

These things are cyclical and if anything Canada is poised to begin winning again soon. My own views are somewhat aligned with Cherry's. Spots on Canadian CHL franchises should really be reserved for developing Canadian goalies, not Euros. There should probably be a limit to the numbers of foreign/US players on Canadian CHL teams; the US CHL franchises can be reserved for all US/Euro players for all I care. The numbers of Euro goalies currently on CHL teams is a bit disconcerting.


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01-05-2013, 05:50 PM
  #356
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
I haven't read the entire thread so I won't offer anything other than my own views.

The CHL exists to develop largely Canadian talent - it is called the Canadian Hockey League for a reason. Frankly, the only weakness I can see is the recent development of Canadian goaltending though. While recent Canadian results at the WJC have been disappointing, they also need be put into proper perspective. The recent losses can be pinned somewhat on goaltending; even the loss to Russia in the semis last year (2012) came while Canada were out-shooting them by a massive margin. Though Americans have been crowing about their own recent accomplishments and rightly so, the fact of the matter remains that they've a paltry 3 gold medals at this tournament since 1977 relative to Canada's 15, and they've only acquired a tiny 8 overall medals versus Canada's 28, so forgive me if I'm not all that impressed. Scroll down to the medal table at the bottom for verification....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ship_medalists

These things are cyclical and if anything Canada is poised to begin winning again soon. My own views are somewhat aligned with Cherry's. Spots on Canadian CHL franchises should really be reserved for developing Canadian goalies not Euros. There should probably be a limit to the numbers of foreign/US players on Canadian CHL teams; the US CHL franchises can be reserved for all US/Euro players for all I care. The numbers of Euro goalies currently on CHL teams is a bit disconcerting.
That's not a solution, that's he opinion of a bigoted xenophobe. I'm ashamed to share soil with people that carry such an opinion.

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01-05-2013, 05:51 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
These things are cyclical and if anything Canada is poised to begin winning again soon. My own views are somewhat aligned with Cherry's. Spots on Canadian CHL franchises should really be reserved for developing Canadian goalies not Euros. There should probably be a limit to the numbers of foreign/US players on Canadian CHL teams; the US CHL franchises can be reserved for all US/Euro players for all I care. There is one solution.
I think people are more angry because Cherry commented. Again, I don't think bringing in international talent damages anything. Afterall, Canadians do train in the NCAA and possibly even the USHL? Everyone should have options if you're good enough. I think that's why Cherry is a fool in this regard.

However, squarely blaming Canadians who think like this, is absurd. Afterall, the KHL has limited spots on their roster for internationals, because they want to tout Russian hockey. If non-Canadians don't think that's not protectionist (which the KHL clearly has been), than I guess people want to watch Canadian hockey fail because they assume "we're arrogant" and have their cake and eat it too.

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01-05-2013, 05:54 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Kessly Snipes View Post
That's not a solution, that's he opinion of a bigoted xenophobe. I'm ashamed to share soil with people that carry such an opinion.

That is cool. My only concern conversely is developing Canadian goalies. That is done by giving them every opportunity to grow in the Canadian Hockey League.

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01-05-2013, 05:54 PM
  #359
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As an NCAA fan, nothing would make me happier.

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01-05-2013, 05:54 PM
  #360
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
I haven't read the entire thread so I won't offer anything other than my own views.

The CHL exists to develop largely Canadian talent - it is called the Canadian Hockey League for a reason. Frankly, the only weakness I can see is the recent development of Canadian goaltending though. While recent Canadian results at the WJC have been disappointing, they also need be put into proper perspective. The recent losses can be pinned somewhat on goaltending; even the loss to Russia in the semis last year (2012) came while Canada were out-shooting them by a massive margin. Though Americans have been crowing about their own recent accomplishments and rightly so, the fact of the matter remains that they've a paltry 3 gold medals at this tournament since 1977 relative to Canada's 15, and they've only acquired a tiny 8 overall medals versus Canada's 28, so forgive me if I'm not all that impressed. Scroll down to the medal table at the bottom for verification.....

The CHL is a business. Therefore, it exists to money and that's what its #1 priority is.

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01-05-2013, 05:56 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by Hanji View Post
The CHL is a business. Therefore, it exists to money and that's what its #1 priority is.
Business' fail. Do you expect Canadians to bank their kids investment in that mentality?

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01-05-2013, 05:57 PM
  #362
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Originally Posted by Ilyeu View Post
If you strip away CHL hockey and the NHL from Canada, you effectively ruin the development in this country at an elite level.

The Americans have NCAA, USHL, the NTDP, and the 24 American teams in the NHL. On top of that more funding than ever before and more educational options for high school kids.
Why doesn't Hockey Canada look into adopting some of those hot house programs like the NTDP and competitive high school hockey leagues? We can look into creating alternative development routes other than the CHL and support our talent before major junior as well. If these programs are working for the Americans, why are we so pigheaded as a nation that we can't adopt some of these development strategies so that we maintain our place as leaders in the game? If Americans, Swedes, Finns, Germans, Swiss, Czech, Slovak and Russian players can learn from our game, I'm sure we can learn from them as well.

I always wondered why guys like Crosby and Mackinnon needed to go to Shattuck St Mary's to develop during their early high school years. Canada could probably stand to facilitate better bridging programs. I don't think there's a crisis, but we can always learn from others and stay at the top.

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01-05-2013, 05:57 PM
  #363
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Originally Posted by Hanji View Post
The CHL is a business. Therefore, it exists to money and that's what its #1 priority is.
Yes and no. The CHL is Canada's primary developmental junior league; it exists to provide opportunity for Canadian players. Let the US-based franchises do the same for US players.

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01-05-2013, 06:00 PM
  #364
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Originally Posted by Stephen View Post
Why doesn't Hockey Canada look into adopting some of those hot house programs like the NTDP and competitive high school hockey leagues? If these programs are working for the Americans, why are we so pigheaded as a nation that we can't adopt some of these development strategies so that we maintain our place as leaders in the game? If Americans, Swedes, Finns, Germans, Swiss, Czech, Slovak and Russian players can learn from our game, I'm sure we can learn from them as well.
Funny you ask that. I raised that statement and question I think two years ago, and it was received with cynicism. To answer your question I don't know.

To sort of answer your question. I don't think the CHL wants to lose it's 'business' to another upstart program or area. I wouldn't doubt that for a second, considering human nature when it comes to protectionism in business.

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01-05-2013, 06:01 PM
  #365
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Sorry not going to read all 15 pages of this thread, but the CHL is Canadian by name only and really each league governs itself for the most part, don't have the same rules in regards to drafting. But these leagues are like the NHL, a business, not a Hockey Canada development league, each team has an owner that is trying to make money. Having the euro imports helps parity.

There has been lots of expansion and the talent pool is dwindling, it has to come from somewhere. Only thing I would like to see is a restriction on import goalies(americans aren't imports by the way) as it does take most goalies longer to develop.

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01-05-2013, 06:02 PM
  #366
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Business' fail. Do you expect Canadians to bank their kids investment in that mentality?
what?

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01-05-2013, 06:04 PM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
That is cool. My only concern conversely is developing Canadian goalies. That is done by giving them every opportunity to grow in the Canadian Hockey League.
We should probably start sending them to Sweden and Finland.

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01-05-2013, 06:05 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Yes and no. The CHL is Canada's primary developmental junior league; it exists to provide opportunity for Canadian players. Let the US-based franchises do the same for US players.
Not enough Americans would play in the OHL and WHL to support the teams, unless some rules changed.

And they are businesses first and foremost.

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01-05-2013, 06:06 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by timekeep View Post
Sorry not going to read all 15 pages of this thread, but the CHL is Canadian by name only and really each league governs itself for the most part, don't have the same rules in regards to drafting. But these leagues are like the NHL, a business, not a Hockey Canada development league, each team has an owner that is trying to make money. Having the euro imports helps parity.

There has been lots of expansion and the talent pool is dwindling, it has to come from somewhere. Only thing I would like to see is a restriction on import goalies(americans aren't imports by the way) as it does take most goalies longer to develop.
The Canadian Hockey League (CHL) is the governing body for major junior hockey (formerly known as Tier One Junior A) in Canada. It exists to develop Canadian Junior A players. Let the US-based franchises develop US players.

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01-05-2013, 06:06 PM
  #370
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what?
It's a question. Do you expect parents who invest time, energy, money into their children to go on the hope of a prayer for their children to play for Team Canada and make a career in the NHL, for a corporation that just cares about making money. The previous poster said the CHL is just a business and nothing else. And if you think that, then your kidding yourself to think so and I have nothing to further discuss with you, because I can see where this discussion will go.

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01-05-2013, 06:11 PM
  #371
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Yes and no. The CHL is Canada's primary developmental junior league; it exists to provide opportunity for Canadian players. Let the US-based franchises do the same for US players.
Right, but everything is still dependent on a successful business model. If the CHL ceases to make money, Canadian hockey development suffers.

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01-05-2013, 06:13 PM
  #372
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If a Canadian kid isn't good enough to earn a spot on one of SIXTY CHL rosters with only a couple imports he isn't very good. He probably should play Junior A than get marginal ice time and retain NCAA eligibility. Good for his hockey career (if he's a late bloomer the NCAA is the best place for that) and good for his non-hockey playing future since he'll get a high quality education.

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01-05-2013, 06:16 PM
  #373
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Right, but everything is still dependent on a successful business model. If the CHL ceases to make money, Canadian hockey development suffers.
What is your point? Canadians will continue to support Canadian Junior hockey regardless of whether there are Euro goalies or not, and regardless of whether or not US players play for Canadian teams. The league exists primarily to develop Canadians. The business in Canada isn't predicated upon American or Euro players. It is known as the CHL for a reason, for it is the primary Canadian tier one developmental ground.

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01-05-2013, 06:16 PM
  #374
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Originally Posted by Gump Hasek View Post
Yes and no. The CHL is Canada's primary developmental junior league; it exists to provide opportunity for Canadian players. Let the US-based franchises do the same for US players.
Canadian players are going to be better developed if they are playing against better competition. Subban benefits from having to face Yakupov's shots than those of an unskilled player who only goes around the ice trying to throw big hits.

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01-05-2013, 06:17 PM
  #375
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LOL at this thread. OP doesn't realize that there's a considerable number of American teams in the CHL. Should the US ban Canadians from playing in the NCAA?
Erie Otters
Plymouth Whalers
Saginaw Spirit
Everett Silvertips
Portland Winterhawks
Seattle Thunderbirds
Spokane Chiefs
Tri-City Americans

So I guess Don (and some idiots on this thread) feel these teams should just shut down?

I guarantee 99% of the Canadian kids in the CHL would disagree with a Canadian only CHL. Those kids want to play in the best league they can against the best players their age.

Does America have a sports guy like Don Cherry? Jingoism is frowned upon amongst TV personalities, writers, etc. but not amongst us American fans who feel we should dominate every sport we care to. Except soccer because it's gay.

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