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Cherry: CHL should stop letting Americans and Europeans to play in CHL (merged)

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Old
01-06-2013, 02:54 PM
  #501
timekeep
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
I guess the first question I would pose is this...is the NCAA "developmental" for hockey players, or is it a destination in and of itself?

Second, can the NCAA compete with only American players?

If it is developmental, and it could compete without foreign born players, then I would say yes, it should only offer scholarships to American players.

But I guess I would add this...if you look at our CFL in Canada, we have restrictions on the number of US players that are allowed to play on each team...but the CFL could not exist without American football players. We have the numbers, but it would be of such a terrible quality that no one would want to watch it. Would the same be true for the NCAA? Maybe, but then again, the NCAA may be developmental, whereas the CFL is not...so that may be the difference.

In all honesty, I am not qualified to decide whether the NCAA is developmental or a destination for the best players of that age group regardless of nationality.
The only difference between the CHL and CFL is that the players are not professionals. CFL likes to think it is a developmental league to a point. The most similar and significant part of the leagues is that they are businesses.

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01-06-2013, 02:57 PM
  #502
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Originally Posted by timekeep View Post
The only difference between the CHL and CFL is that the players are not professionals. CFL likes to think it is a developmental league to a point. The most similar and significant part of the leagues is that they are businesses.
I agree that the CHL has become a business, which is what I think creates this discussion. At one time, not too long ago, the CHL would have been viewed as developmental first, a business second.

I think Cherry (and myself) would like to see it going back to being more developmental, especially for Canadian kids who end up on the outside looking in.

I say this with the understanding that I have no hope of ever seeing it go back to that.

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01-06-2013, 03:01 PM
  #503
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
Once again, the "enlightened ones" on the HF Boards believe that they are reading the rants of an angry racist. That is highly oversimplifying things.

In short, I agree with him. Why have a developmental league called the "CHL" when you are developing players from other nations?

I believe Canada should have its own developmental leagues, and I am not a senile old fool, nor am I racist.

Put in a simpler form...pretend you have a minor football league in Texas. Now you start loading up that league with specific Czechs, Russians, and Slovaks while the American kids who would have been on the team sit on the sidelines or in the stands and watch.

Because it is a good league, the foreign kids choose to come to that Texan league because they want to improve their skills and get drafted. They get funded by greedy management that wants to win above developing anyone in particular. Their parents, seeing that they can send them to Texas and give them to have a better life in a foreign nation, also support that movement.

Meanwhile, the Texan kids can't afford to leave to go to another nation or don't want to play in second class leagues in another country...so they decide to play a more recreational, cheaper, and less competative form of the game, and thus never develop into the potential NFLer's that they could have been.

Believing that they should have their own developmental league has nothing to do with hating people from other nations, but more like supporting those from your own. That is how I look at it. I think this is also how Cherry looks at it.

But of course, instead of looking at things from another point of view, it is easier to call him a biggot or an idiot and leave it at that. Weak.
If the CHL was to become Canadian-only, there would not be room for even one additional Canadian player.

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01-06-2013, 03:02 PM
  #504
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
I agree that the CHL has become a business, which is what I think creates this discussion. At one time, not too long ago, the CHL would have been viewed as developmental first, a business second.

I think Cherry (and myself) would like to see it going back to being more developmental, especially for Canadian kids who end up on the outside looking in.

I say this with the understanding that I have no hope of ever seeing it go back to that.
Develop them for what? Rec hockey?

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01-06-2013, 03:04 PM
  #505
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01-06-2013, 03:06 PM
  #506
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Originally Posted by jekoh View Post
If the CHL was to become Canadian-only, there would not be room for even one additional Canadian player.
Please explain. I am not sure I know what you mean.

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01-06-2013, 03:07 PM
  #507
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
Once again, the "enlightened ones" on the HF Boards believe that they are reading the rants of an angry racist. That is highly oversimplifying things.

In short, I agree with him. Why have a developmental league called the "CHL" when you are developing players from other nations?

I believe Canada should have its own developmental leagues, and I am not a senile old fool, nor am I racist.

Put in a simpler form...pretend you have a minor football league in Texas. Now you start loading up that league with specific Czechs, Russians, and Slovaks while the American kids who would have been on the team sit on the sidelines or in the stands and watch.

Because it is a good league, the foreign kids choose to come to that Texan league because they want to improve their skills and get drafted. They get funded by greedy management that wants to win above developing anyone in particular. Their parents, seeing that they can send them to Texas and give them to have a better life in a foreign nation, also support that movement.

Meanwhile, the Texan kids can't afford to leave to go to another nation or don't want to play in second class leagues in another country...so they decide to play a more recreational, cheaper, and less competative form of the game, and thus never develop into the potential NFLer's that they could have been.

Believing that they should have their own developmental league has nothing to do with hating people from other nations, but more like supporting those from your own. That is how I look at it. I think this is also how Cherry looks at it.

But of course, instead of looking at things from another point of view, it is easier to call him a biggot or an idiot and leave it at that. Weak.


Bravo. Great post and spot on.

The CHL (and previously as the separate junior A leagues) survived and thrived over the vast majority of its history as the primary Canadian developmental league/s for Canadian players... and not coincidentally produced the vast majority of NHL players while doing so. Canadian resources are currently being wasted while developing Euro goalies, for example.

Well stated. Cheers.

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01-06-2013, 03:10 PM
  #508
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
Once again, the "enlightened ones" on the HF Boards believe that they are reading the rants of an angry racist. That is highly oversimplifying things.

In short, I agree with him. Why have a developmental league called the "CHL" when you are developing players from other nations?

I believe Canada should have its own developmental leagues, and I am not a senile old fool, nor am I racist.

Put in a simpler form...pretend you have a minor football league in Texas. Now you start loading up that league with specific Czechs, Russians, and Slovaks while the American kids who would have been on the team sit on the sidelines or in the stands and watch.

Because it is a good league, the foreign kids choose to come to that Texan league because they want to improve their skills and get drafted. They get funded by greedy management that wants to win above developing anyone in particular. Their parents, seeing that they can send them to Texas and give them to have a better life in a foreign nation, also support that movement.

Meanwhile, the Texan kids can't afford to leave to go to another nation or don't want to play in second class leagues in another country...so they decide to play a more recreational form of the game, and thus never develop into the potential NFLer's that they could have been.

Believing that they should have their own developmental league has nothing to do with hating people from other nations, but more like supporting those from your own. That is how I look at it. I think this is also how Cherry looks at it.

But of course, instead of looking at things from another point of view, it is easier to call him a biggot or an idiot and leave it at that. Weak.
I have no problem with yours and Don Cherry's thoughts and goals. Problem is, the ownership wont stop contacting kids outside of Canada. A recent Super Series for bantam aged hockey players in the U.S. had at least 8 scouts from the CHL who openly talked to parents of higher level kids. So as you see, the people who OWN teams and RUN the league do not care what you and Don think and believe the limitations already set in place are good enough. You might want to socialize that too but the owners disagree. (The amount of pressure on U.S. kids from CHL teams is so high that a marketing company was developed and paid for by U.S. college hockey teams to have their voice heard by the kids College Hockey Inc.)

Since you love the other points of view. Another point of view would be to take away all of the NCAA scholarships Canadian kids receive. I don't agree with it because I think the NCAA wants the best available and think it is the right way. But your action deserves a reaction

It is easy to sit back and say "everyone gains so much from Canada we should..."

but dont close your eyes to the benefits young people gain from coming down here to play NCAA hockey womens and mens, basketball, football, etc and gain an education no matter if the player has World Jr ability or not.

And your football point. Hate to break it to you but there is no fear down here to let anyone in any league. There are no rules with NCAA and there are no rules for NFL. Can't believe a Pro league like the CFL limits high quality players based on their birth country. Can't believe people don't see through this crap.

The day the NFL or NCAA football puts limitations on birth country is the day you know they worry about their own countries skill level. Don Cherry must have had such a day

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01-06-2013, 03:11 PM
  #509
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Realistically how many Americans and Euros even play on each team? I really don't think it's a large number. Euro limit is what? 2? While most teams don't even hit that.

Sounds like sour grapes with very little basis over losing badly in the WJC's.

I actually prefer those kids coming over as it provides better scouting opportunities.

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01-06-2013, 03:11 PM
  #510
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
Please explain. I am not sure I know what you mean.
Non-Canadian players add up to the exact same proportion as non-Canadian teams in the CHL.

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01-06-2013, 03:12 PM
  #511
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On Team USA: 9 players from the CHL (1 was Garret Sparks who saw 0 action) 13 from the NCAA, and 1 from the AHL who previously played in the OHL. So if you want to include JT Miller, 10/23 players are CHL guys.

In short, that list isn't as long as the NCAA list.
Any idea on how many NCAA players on the Canadian roster?

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01-06-2013, 03:15 PM
  #512
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Most Canadian posters in this thread -

Edit - only those agreeing with Cherry and his ridiculous notion


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01-06-2013, 03:16 PM
  #513
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Any idea on how many NCAA players on the Canadian roster?
Ask Phil Di Giuseppe about the snub.

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01-06-2013, 03:17 PM
  #514
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Originally Posted by jcbio11 View Post
Most Canadian posters in this thread -

The vast, vast majority of Canadians in this thread are against the nationalization of the CHL. A little reading would tell you that

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01-06-2013, 03:17 PM
  #515
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Originally Posted by UvBnDatsyuked View Post
I have no problem with yours and Don Cherry's thoughts and goals. Problem is, the ownership wont stop contacting kids outside of Canada. A recent Super Series for bantam aged hockey players in the U.S. had at least 8 scouts from the CHL who openly talked to parents of higher level kids. So as you see, the people who OWN teams and RUN the league do not care what you and Don think and believe the limitations already set in place are good enough. You might want to socialize that too but the owners disagree. (The amount of pressure on U.S. kids from CHL teams is so high that a marketing company was developed and paid for by U.S. college hockey teams to have their voice heard by the kids College Hockey Inc.)

Since you love the other points of view. Another point of view would be to take away all of the NCAA scholarships Canadian kids receive. I don't agree with it because I think the NCAA wants the best available and think it is the right way. But your action deserves a reaction

It is easy to sit back and say "everyone gains so much from Canada we should..."

but dont close your eyes to the benefits young people gain from coming down here to play NCAA hockey womens and mens, basketball, football, etc and gain an education no matter if the player has World Jr ability or not.

And your football point. Hate to break it to you but there is no fear down here to let anyone in any league. There are no rules with NCAA and there are no rules for NFL. Can't believe a Pro league like the CFL limits high quality players based on their birth country. Can't believe people don't see through this crap.

The day the NFL or NCAA football puts limitations on birth country is the day you know they worry about their own countries skill level. Don Cherry must have had such a day
When my very talented daughter comes to your high school and displaces your very talented but maybe not quite as talented daughter on her own basketball team and costs her a scholarship, my guess is you will have a different outlook.

Don't forget, we are talking about the development of 16-19 year old players here, not adults. That is the key difference in this discussion.

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01-06-2013, 03:18 PM
  #516
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The vast, vast majority of Canadians in this thread are against the nationalization of the CHL. A little reading would tell you that
Sure but good ol' Donster has been spewing this same kind of crap for 30 years now and he's hugely popular, what's up with that?

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01-06-2013, 03:21 PM
  #517
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
Once again, the "enlightened ones" on the HF Boards believe that they are reading the rants of an angry racist. That is highly oversimplifying things.

In short, I agree with him. Why have a developmental league called the "CHL" when you are developing players from other nations?

I believe Canada should have its own developmental leagues, and I am not a senile old fool, nor am I racist.

Put in a simpler form...pretend you have a minor football league in Texas. Now you start loading up that league with specific Czechs, Russians, and Slovaks while the American kids who would have been on the team sit on the sidelines or in the stands and watch.

Because it is a good league, the foreign kids choose to come to that Texan league because they want to improve their skills and get drafted. They get funded by greedy management that wants to win above developing anyone in particular. Their parents, seeing that they can send them to Texas and give them to have a better life in a foreign nation, also support that movement.

Meanwhile, the Texan kids can't afford to leave to go to another nation or don't want to play in second class leagues in another country...so they decide to play a more recreational, cheaper, and less competative form of the game, and thus never develop into the potential NFLer's that they could have been.

Believing that they should have their own developmental league has nothing to do with hating people from other nations, but more like supporting those from your own. That is how I look at it. I think this is also how Cherry looks at it.

But of course, instead of looking at things from another point of view, it is easier to call him a biggot or an idiot and leave it at that. Weak.
Great post,this is a perfect example of what has happened to Canadian junior hockey.Anyone claiming that the kids playing are semi-pros should realize that there are no bonuses for a drafted player.Only once the team agrees to sign the player is any bonus involved and < 1/3 of players are actually signed.

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01-06-2013, 03:26 PM
  #518
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Originally Posted by fly4apuckguy View Post
When my very talented daughter comes to your high school and displaces your very talented but maybe not quite as talented daughter on her own basketball team and costs her a scholarship, my guess is you will have a different outlook.

Don't forget, we are talking about the development of 16-19 year old players here, not adults. That is the key difference in this discussion.
I thought this was about elite development? That less talented daughter probably has zero chance of representing her country in her sport so what difference does it make? And if she is indeed good enough, she'll still find a way to make it.

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01-06-2013, 03:31 PM
  #519
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Originally Posted by BobDobolina View Post
I thought this was about elite development? That less talented daughter probably has zero chance of representing her country in her sport so what difference does it make? And if she is indeed good enough, she'll still find a way to make it.
It's a moot point since no Canadian player is being displaced from Canadian CHL teams anyway.

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01-06-2013, 03:35 PM
  #520
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So then you agree that the NCAA shouldn't offer any Canadians athletic scholarships, correct?
Doesn't giving out scholarships for sports and free accomadations equate to to a pay cheque.I here the tuitions at some universities are very high.

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01-06-2013, 03:47 PM
  #521
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I thought this was about elite development? That less talented daughter probably has zero chance of representing her country in her sport so what difference does it make? And if she is indeed good enough, she'll still find a way to make it.
Most Canadian hockey parents think their kids are elite, so do their grandparents, aunts and uncles, and neighbors

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01-06-2013, 03:47 PM
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Develop them for what? Rec hockey?
The percentage of Canadian players in the NHL has been on a bit of a decline over the past few decades,I wonder if it has anything to do with the CHL's import players.The Canadian decline seemed to start about 2-3 years after imports were allowed.

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01-06-2013, 03:51 PM
  #523
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Most Canadian hockey parents think their kids are elite, so do their grandparents, aunts and uncles, and neighbors
I'm sorry, what does this have to do with anything? Are we talking about developing the very best athletes in their sport or hurt feelings here?

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01-06-2013, 03:52 PM
  #524
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Ask Phil Di Giuseppe about the snub.
Excuse me for asking a legitimate question.

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01-06-2013, 03:53 PM
  #525
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Give us back Missy Franklin and you can do whatever you want.

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